God loves everyone?

BNR32FAN

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That still really doesn’t make sense. That just implies that we’d be in some sort of position to do something. And we don’t make ourselves born again.

“Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35‬ ‭NASB‬‬
 
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BNR32FAN

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No, it’s not just. Just would be punishing all of us forever. You don’t want justice. You want mercy. And that’s God gives to His elect.

Just would be either punishing all or making a way for all to be saved.
 
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“Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35‬ ‭NASB‬‬
Um, okay.
 
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Hammster

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Just would be either punishing all or making a way for all to be saved.
Why? If someone doesn’t deserve salvation, why is God obligated to save them?
 
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sdowney717

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I mean that you are different now, ... as a new creation, with a new heart, indwelt by the Holy Spirit. It would be hard for you to see life as one who isn't of God. But there are those who haven't chosen the things of God.

I wonder why you suppose that, having freewill, we would choose for sin every time. I would agree that we cannot live up to high call of God on our own (Romans 3:23), but I don't think that the Biblical record supports that all of us .... are all-consumed by sin.

Otherwise, how do we account for biblical Abel, or Seth ? Also Enoch, Noah, Job, Joseph, Moses, Joshua, Ruth, Esther, Hezekiah, Josiah, David, Nehemiah, Hannah, Samuel, etc. ?

All of these lived prior to the fulfillment of God's plan to save us.

How did these manage to live lives which were not consumed by sin (i.e. depraved) ?

What does Jesus mean when He teaches to Nicodemus ...

John 3

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


Who are "they who do the truth" ?
The ones who do the truth, their deeds are done in God, so God was the one who moved on them to do His will. Not by force or power, but by His Spirit, he did that. They did the truth , came to the light, according to the will of God for them.

20 For every man that evil doeth, hateth the light, neither cometh to light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth, cometh to the light, that his deeds might be made manifest, that they are wrought according to God.

Christ talks about them that do the truth, but the underlying reason they did that, was their deeds were orchestrated by God working in their life.
For it is God who is within you both to work and to will of His good pleasure. (for those he has determined to save)

Another way of thinking this, Jesus said
For without me you can do nothing (bearing the good fruit and the good works)

John 15:5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
 
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ICONO'CLAST

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If this is true then everyone must have the opportunity for salvation and they are condemned by their choice not God’s choice. It seems like you are saying
God chose those whom He foresaw would choose to repent which is not really predestination at all.
No,not at all.
You have it all wrong because of a wrong view of the fall.
All died,no one seeks God.
Read Ezk.34 God seeks a multitude...they are not seeking Him.
God is not a spectator watching to see if anyone chooses Him first,He knows better. Psalm14:1-3.
God is not a respecter of persons.
All are equally guilty. He elects a multitude of sinners for His purposes..
Everyone does not have to be ave an opportunity for salvation.That is a complete falsehood.
 
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BNR32FAN

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The ones who do the truth, their deeds are done in God, so God was the one who moved on them to do His will. Not by force or power, but by His Spirit, he did that. They did the truth , came to the light, according to the will of God for them.

20 For every man that evil doeth, hateth the light, neither cometh to light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth, cometh to the light, that his deeds might be made manifest, that they are wrought according to God.

Christ talks about them that do the truth, but the underlying reason they did that, was their deeds were orchestrated by God working in their life.
For it is God who is within you both to work and to will of His good pleasure. (for those he has determined to save)

Another way of thinking this, Jesus said
For without me you can do nothing (bear good fruit)

John 15:5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

Wrought
G2038
Lemma: ἐργάζομαι
Pronunciation: er-gad'-zom-ahee
Definition: ἐργάζομαι middle voice from G2041 (ἔργον) ; to toil (as a task, occupation, etc.), (by implication) effect, be engaged in or with, etc.:--commit, do, labor for, minister about, trade (by), work.

Another way to see this is to say that we work together in cooperation with God. Like Jesus said without Me you can do nothing.

John 15 is one of my favorite chapters in John’s gospel account. It’s in my opinion the strongest evidence in the Bible that supports conditional salvation. For example verse 2 The Father cuts off every branch in Christ that doesn’t bear fruit. And of course verse 6 Anyone who does not abide (remain, stay, continue) in Me (Christ) is cast away to wither and cast into the fire to be burned. Given Calvin’s doctrine of total depravity it is impossible for someone to be in Christ and attached to the vine which is Christ if they are not chosen by God. The natural man is incapable of achieving this. So John 15 really contradicts Calvin’s understanding of predestination and total depravity since this refers to those who are in Christ and are either cut off by The Father or fail to remain in Christ of their own accord. Not to mention that Jesus is saying this to His 11 faithful apostles who are the only ones present to hear this message. Surely we don’t doubt that they were chosen by God John 15:16 or whether or not they truly believed. ;)
 
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Hammster

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Did you forget Acts 10:34-35? You just replied to it less than one minute before this reply.
I haven’t forgotten it. Do you think it proves something? If so, what?
 
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sdowney717

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G2038
Lemma: ἐργάζομαι
Pronunciation: er-gad'-zom-ahee
Definition: ἐργάζομαι middle voice from G2041 (ἔργον) ; to toil (as a task, occupation, etc.), (by implication) effect, be engaged in or with, etc.:--commit, do, labor for, minister about, trade (by), work.

Another way to see this is to say that we work together in cooperation with God. Like Jesus said without Me you can do nothing.

John 15 is one of my favorite chapters in John’s gospel account. It’s in my opinion the strongest evidence in the Bible that supports conditional salvation. For example verse 2 The Father cuts off every branch in Christ that doesn’t bear fruit. And of course verse 6 Anyone who does not abide (remain, stay, continue) in Me (Christ) is cast away to wither and cast into the fire to be burned. Given Calvin’s doctrine of total depravity it is impossible for someone to be in Christ and attached to the vine which is Christ if they are not chosen by God. The natural man is incapable of achieving this. So John 15 really contradicts Calvin’s understanding of predestination and total depravity since this refers to those who are in Christ and are either cut off by The Father or fail to remain in Christ of their own accord. Not to mention that Jesus is saying this to His 11 faithful apostles who are the only ones present to hear this message. Surely we don’t doubt that they were chosen by God John 15:16 or whether or not they truly believed. ;)

The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord.
However they are none that doeth good without aid from Him.
So God must be the one good guiding force altering the course of a man's life, so that the man walks according to the will of God and doeth good works.

Paul teaches this very thing in Ephesians 2
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

We walk but he guides our steps so that we walk the way He planned for us beforehand.
And the beforehand shows God had a plan for all the good works we would do before we even were saved or born, so our will was not involved at all in what God has individually planned for us.

God has no good works planned beforehand for the reprobate wicked dead to walk in who are going to the Lake of Fire at the end.
 
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BNR32FAN

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No,not at all.
You have it all wrong because of a wrong view of the fall.
All died,no one seeks God.
Read Ezk.34 God seeks a multitude...they are not seeking Him.
God is not a spectator watching to see if anyone chooses Him first,He knows better. Psalm14:1-3.
God is not a respecter of persons.
All are equally guilty. He elects a multitude of sinners for His purposes..
Everyone does not have to be ave an opportunity for salvation.That is a complete falsehood.

Says the fool in his heart. That’s the first statement in Psalms 14. Mary did not seek God? John the Baptist did not seek God? David did not seek God? Samuel, Elijah, Moses, Enoch, Noah, Methuselah? Many people seek God it is the fool who does not.

Respecter
G4381
Lemma: προσωπολήπτης
Pronunciation: pros-o-pol-ape'-tace
Definition: προσωπολήπτης from G4383 (πρόσωπον) and G2983 (λαμβάνω) ; an accepter of a face (individual), i.e. (specially), one exhibiting partiality:--respecter of persons.

God is impartial to everyone. Now instead of reading Acts 10:34 by itself put it together with verse 35.

“Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Welcome or accepted
G1184
Lemma: δεκτός
Pronunciation: dek-tos'
Definition: δεκτός from G1209 (δέχομαι) ; approved; (figuratively) propitious:-- accepted(-table).

Accepted does not mean chosen.

Accepted

to take or receive (something offered); receive with approval or favor:to accept a present; to accept a proposal.
to agree or consent to; accede to: to accept a treaty; to accept an apology.
to respond or answer affirmatively to:

Doesn’t sound like predestination to me brother.
 
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BNR32FAN

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The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord.
However they are none that doeth good without aid from Him.
So God must be the one good guiding force altering the course of a man's life, so that the man walks according to the will of God and doeth good works.

Amen absolutely
 
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BNR32FAN

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We walk but he guides our steps so that we walk the way He planned for us beforehand.
And the beforehand shows God had a plan for all the good works we would do before we even were saved or born, so our will was not involved at all in what God has individually planned for us.

Or He has orchestrated His plan according to the choices we will make in order to save the most He possibly can without interfering with free will because the whole purpose of our being here is to cultivate humans that will choose to love God of their own free will so that we may be His children and have fellowship with Him. God desires our love. If He was going to choose who will believe and who will not then He could’ve just made us obedient in heaven having no actual free will to choose whether or not we would love and obey Him. But would that kind of love be of any real value to God?
 
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BNR32FAN

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God has no good works planned beforehand for the reprobate wicked dead to walk in who are going to the Lake of Fire at the end.

I would agree with that given He has foreseen who will repent and who will not.
 
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Hammster

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See post 572 please.
Are you talking about where Peter acknowledges that salvation isn’t just for Jews, but God will also save Gentiles?
 
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sdowney717

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I would agree with that given He has foreseen who will repent and who will not.
In keeping that same thought is 2 Peter 3, where the current heavens and earth of this evil age are reserved for fire at the Day of Judgement and destruction of the wicked in Hell.

BUT, for the BELOVED, whom He loves with a great love as Ephesians 2 describes them, those he has foreknown, He waits patiently with long suffering towards them, not willing that any of those beloved perish but that all of them come to repentance, and they will or he would not be carefully concerned over them.
v7 is for the wicked whom God knows will never repent.
v8 is for us who will believe, God knows them as his people from beforehand, so waits patiently with great love for the proper time to make them alive in Him.

For the WICKED
7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition (being sent to hell) of ungodly men.

For the BELOVED
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward [c]us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Are you talking about where Peter acknowledges that salvation isn’t just for Jews, but God will also save Gentiles?

“Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35‬ ‭NASB‬‬

This statement is not limited to any particular group. In every nation THE MAN who fears Him and does what is right is WELCOME (accepted, approved) to Him.
 
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“Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35‬ ‭NASB‬‬

This statement is not limited to any particular group. In every nation THE MAN who fears Him and does what is right is WELCOME (accepted, approved) to Him.
Right. So are you proposing that we are saved by our goodness?
 
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