That person was most definitely saved, but this other person was most definitely not saved...?

[Sabertooth]

Jesus told us to judge (assess, not condemn).

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit." Matthew 7:15-18 NKJV

That chapter starts off with,

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." Matthew 7:1-2 NKJV

 

[Neogaia777]

Jesus told us to judge (assess, not condemn).

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit." Matthew 7:15-18 NKJV

That chapter starts off with,

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." Matthew 7:1-2 NKJV

How should we judge though, and what gives us the right to judge...? or even the right ability, knowledge, etc, to do so, etc...? Let alone accurately or rightly, and not to mention truly justly, etc...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

How should we judge though, and what gives us the right to judge...? or even the right ability, knowledge, etc, to do so, etc...? Let alone accurately or rightly, and not to mention truly justly, etc...?

God Bless!

I think "warn" is different from judging... and that maybe we have to right to "warn" sometimes, and even stay away from and/or avoid certain people sometimes, but not to judge them absolutely, without or beyond any benefit of the doubt, or without giving them any benefit of any kind of doubt, etc...

That we maybe still love them from a safe distance, etc... Still forgive them... and show mercy on or toward them in our hearts at least, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

How should we judge though, and what gives us the right to judge...? or even the right ability, knowledge, etc, to do so, etc...? Let alone accurately or rightly, and not to mention truly justly, etc...?

God Bless!

We don't have all the facts, etc, only God does, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Sabertooth]

..., and what gives us the right to judge...?

Who gives us the right to judge? Jesus, in the above verse.

...or even the right ability, knowledge, etc, to do so, etc...?

Jesus said,
“If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you." John 14:15-17 NKJV

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you." John 14:26 NKJV

"However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come." John 16:13 NKJV

 

[Neogaia777]

Who gives us the right to judge? Jesus, in the above verse.

Jesus said,
“If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you." John 14:15-17 NKJV

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you." John 14:26 NKJV

"However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come." John 16:13 NKJV

I don't see anything in those verses about judging others...?

And the only one I know that comes close, is also a bit misleading in my opinion... and that's where it/He tells us to "judge with righteous judgment", but to me judging with righteous judgment is only judging when and where you/me/we have to, or must only, and then only not judging absolutely or with absolute certainty, or is in a absolutely condemning, as in only seeking to condemn only, "way", etc...

In only a way that seeks only to warn only, or make them aware of the risks, is the only way that would seem acceptable to me...

God Bless!

 

[Sabertooth]

I don't see anything in those verses about judging others...?

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves."
^^^^^^^^^^^
Do not take everybody at face value; exercise judgement, assess.

How...?
You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather

• grapes from thornbushes or
• figs from thistles? Even so,
• every good tree bears good fruit, but
• a bad tree bears bad fruit.
• A good tree cannot bear bad fruit,
• nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Matthew 7:15-18 NKJV

 

[Neogaia777]

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves."
^^^^^^^^^^^
Do not take everybody at face value; exercise judgement, assess.

How...?
You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather

• grapes from thornbushes or
• figs from thistles? Even so,
• every good tree bears good fruit, but
• a bad tree bears bad fruit.
• A good tree cannot bear bad fruit,
• nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Matthew 7:15-18 NKJV

I take that to be "warned" of or about them, not judging the state of their individual salvation for sure or not, don't you...? Or right standing with God for sure or not, don't you...?

Jesus also told us to listen to the Pharisees and do our best to do what they say or perform what they say or are telling you, but not to do as they do in their own personal lives etc, or take lessons about how to live our personal lives, from their own personal lives, etc... (Matthew 23:1-3)...

God Bless!

 

[Jen35]

Unless a person dies, there is always hope for that individual. Jesus tells us not to judge or we too ourselves will be judged just like in the same manner we condemn a person especially when there is no real reason to at all. Because we are all fallen humans and all can fall into error none of us should be judging anyone. People in this world judge for many reasons, people judge others sometimes for hurting them or some people judge others because they are jealous and some may even judge someone because that person isn't likable or agreeable in thier eyes. But who are we to say isnt likable especially if we have never known that person personally or been in thier presence. Only the Lord can see in to a person's heart and life. He sees it all so only he can make fair judgements. It's one thing to say we love God and it's another thing for God to have mercy and compassion on that person for him only having possessing all truth and knowledge about a person , thier lives and situation. So we all should not be quick to judge a person or situation without the known facts of that person just only with the assumptions you are using to judge that person. And why even still judge someone, why not pray instead of kicking someone while they are down? And remember until Gods work is complete, that person or situation will go on until it is indeed complete. It's not wise for us judge a book by its cover or count our eggs before they hatch.. but there is one way to go about it examine ourselves and try to forgive each other..and move on...and I don't think forgiveness only comes from a forgiven heart but it comes from a mature heart also... :-/ I think it's also most think they own the Lord when in reality the Lord can be Lord all by himself...so none of us should judge because whether one time or not, we are all filthy rags and sinners in need of a Lord and Savior.. and you can easily tell when something sounds geniune or not in the tone of what is being said.. it's like someone filling up a basket of halloween candy full of good treats but then sneekly add one with full of poison in it cause that was the main cause of it..lol The Lord doesn't complicate things, we only do that ourselves for making things worst then they are...sometimes it's good to know when to stop...

 

[ilovejcsog]

I like your thread NEO

 

[Strong in Him]

That person was most definitely saved, but this other person was most definitely not saved, etc.

God might say, "Not in my eyes", etc....

How can you/me/we judge, etc...?

We can't, and it's not up to us to judge.
Our job is to love everybody and preach the Gospel.

 

[fhansen]

That person was most definitely saved, but this other person was most definitely not saved, etc.

God might say, "Not in my eyes", etc....

How can you/me/we judge, etc...?

Those whom men might say or think was not saved at all, could easily have a much purer, better, and just a much better, and more right, good, just, etc, "heart" or heart condition than those who some men might say most definitely was saved or had to be saved for sure, when God may not, etc....

If you make automatic or snap judgments in your heart and mind about "certain people" or certain individuals (those that might seem like great sinners on the outside) (or people in dire desperate states, conditions or circumstances, etc) (or "whomever" for "whatever" reasons) "snap judgments" in your mind or heart, or heart and mind, or in your thinking processes, you have just eaten the fruit from the tree of the knowledge or good and evil and have fallen into what God Himself considers a very great or deep or pretty serious and very evil and wicked sin (yourself) etc, IMO...

We are supposed to always be giving everyone the benefit of the doubt, right...? And when we don't, why don't we, etc, and is that a sin, and perhaps a great sin on our part...? Are we being hypocrites, or worse, when we don't or do not...?

Is it possible for someone who might seem like a great sinner on the outside, or for one whom it might even seem is being punished for their sins, or is being cursed or stricken by God for their sins, that they even might still be in, on the outside, to be a much "better person", than one whom many men might say was or is a very good person and is most definitely saved by or due to outside or outward appearances, etc..."

Is it possible...?

And, how can we/me/you judge...?

When God might say to you just the opposite maybe in His eyes, etc...?

Discuss...?

God Bless!

We have to have some guidelines, some standards, for what it means to be just or right in God's eyes but I believe there'll be some surprises for us all at the end of the day.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

it's not our job to decide who is inside or outside of the kingdom anyway so..

 

[renniks]

It's not our job to decide who is a believer, but it is our job to beware of false teachers. And to warn our fellow Christians against those teachers. You can't say Paul never judged either. He talked about giving certain people over to Satan and warned strongly against those who thought they could be justified by the law. And let's get real, everybody judges. We just don't do it out loud most of the time. There's also a huge difference between pointing out that something is a sin, and the nitpicking judging Jesus was talking about.

 

[jamesbond007]

I think the main point is that whether one goes to heaven or hell has already been predestined by God even before they were born. Thus, it's not something that we can judge. Usually, one doesn't have to judge people in this regard. Maybe we end up on a jury where they are bing tried for a capital crime or for some other felonious crime. Even then, we do not know if they'll end up in heaven or hell. Jesus forgave and took the thief who was crucified along side him. Thus, we just do not know and it's probably not in our place to judge. However, it's also human nature to judge others by their behavior and appearance and we do that every day. However, it's not about their ultimate fate. Just let Jesus do that.

 

[Bruce Leiter]

That person was most definitely saved, but this other person was most definitely not saved, etc.

God might say, "Not in my eyes", etc....

How can you/me/we judge, etc...?

Those whom men might say or think was not saved at all, could easily have a much purer, better, and just a much better, and more right, good, just, etc, "heart" or heart condition than those who some men might say most definitely was saved or had to be saved for sure, when God may not, etc....

If you make automatic or snap judgments in your heart and mind about "certain people" or certain individuals (those that might seem like great sinners on the outside) (or people in dire desperate states, conditions or circumstances, etc) (or "whomever" for "whatever" reasons) "snap judgments" in your mind or heart, or heart and mind, or in your thinking processes, you have just eaten the fruit from the tree of the knowledge or good and evil and have fallen into what God Himself considers a very great or deep or pretty serious and very evil and wicked sin (yourself) etc, IMO...

We are supposed to always be giving everyone the benefit of the doubt, right...? And when we don't, why don't we, etc, and is that a sin, and perhaps a great sin on our part...? Are we being hypocrites, or worse, when we don't or do not...?

Is it possible for someone who might seem like a great sinner on the outside, or for one whom it might even seem is being punished for their sins, or is being cursed or stricken by God for their sins, that they even might still be in, on the outside, to be a much "better person", than one whom many men might say was or is a very good person and is most definitely saved by or due to outside or outward appearances, etc..."

Is it possible...?

And, how can we/me/you judge...?

When God might say to you just the opposite maybe in His eyes, etc...?

Discuss...?

God Bless!

And God's blessings to you! Yeah, it's very hard to determine other people's spiritual condition, but why do you have to, when God's got it covered? The question is why can't we submit to the mystery of the human heart that God only knows (Jeremiah 17:9,10).

God has taught me through almost 77 years of life, 61 of them spiritual life, that I need to accept each person God sends to me just as they are, while rejecting their unbiblical lifestyles. In my experience based on the Scriptures, it's through such unconditional love that God works in their lives to change them. We shouldn't try to change their ways of life; God can.

Look at Revelation 22:11, in which Jesus basically says, don't try to control unbelievers' lives and other believers' ways of life.

 

[Pedra]

We believers should use the Bible scripture as our instruction manual, not the world's standards. We are to judge not by appearances , but we are to judge righteously according to the scripture, correcting error with love, giving mercy and charity to all.
No where does the scripture tell Christians not to judge. Matt 7:1 says don't be a hypocrite, don't judge others for the sin you are guilty of because by the measure you give out in judgment towards that person & the person's sin , so shall GOD measure your sin by that standard. Example would be someone who is guilty of infidelity condemning someone else that they see guilty of that sin , the Bible warns us not to do that. If we strive to have a loving heart , giving mercy & grace, then grace shall be given to us or if we harshly condemn that sin (that WE are also guilty of ) and you will receive the same harsh judgment from God. (Matt 7:1 )

 

[Gregory Thompson]

That person was most definitely saved, but this other person was most definitely not saved, etc.

God might say, "Not in my eyes", etc....

How can you/me/we judge, etc...?

Those whom men might say or think was not saved at all, could easily have a much purer, better, and just a much better, and more right, good, just, etc, "heart" or heart condition than those who some men might say most definitely was saved or had to be saved for sure, when God may not, etc....

If you make automatic or snap judgments in your heart and mind about "certain people" or certain individuals (those that might seem like great sinners on the outside) (or people in dire desperate states, conditions or circumstances, etc) (or "whomever" for "whatever" reasons) "snap judgments" in your mind or heart, or heart and mind, or in your thinking processes, you have just eaten the fruit from the tree of the knowledge or good and evil and have fallen into what God Himself considers a very great or deep or pretty serious and very evil and wicked sin (yourself) etc, IMO...

We are supposed to always be giving everyone the benefit of the doubt, right...? And when we don't, why don't we, etc, and is that a sin, and perhaps a great sin on our part...? Are we being hypocrites, or worse, when we don't or do not...?

Is it possible for someone who might seem like a great sinner on the outside, or for one whom it might even seem is being punished for their sins, or is being cursed or stricken by God for their sins, that they even might still be in, on the outside, to be a much "better person", than one whom many men might say was or is a very good person and is most definitely saved by or due to outside or outward appearances, etc..."

Is it possible...?

And, how can we/me/you judge...?

When God might say to you just the opposite maybe in His eyes, etc...?

Discuss...?

God Bless!

Yeah because people who dress up in a suit or fancy dress to go to church are probably very legalistic, and in the most need of salvation ... right?

I get what you mean, there is no basis for humans to judge the salvation of another. Once a standard is made in the form of a list of behaviors, the first to imitate it perfectly usually are atheists anyway.

 

[Pedra]

Seems though pettiness aside believers should care if someone is not saved, & should be concerned for their eternal destiny. Conversation with them should be done out of brotherly love & probably asking for a Pastor or elder's advice to counsel them biblically. Believers should be like Bereans confirming with scripture & have a firm foundation in sound doctrines. We can't ignore that there are those who claim to be christian but teach hersies & we need to contend for the Faith as per the scripture teaches us. Just my two cents.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Seems though pettiness aside believers should care if someone is not saved, & should be concerned for their eternal destiny. Conversation with them should be done out of brotherly love & probably asking for a Pastor or elder's advice to counsel them biblically. Believers should be like Bereans confirming with scripture & have a firm foundation in sound doctrines. We can't ignore that there are those who claim to be christian but teach hersies & we need to contend for the Faith as per the scripture teaches us. Just my two cents.

Yeah, but the scripture says "God knows who are His", and you're not God. Therefore, you cannot know.