Marty Samson From Hillsong Renounce Faith

Introverted1293

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Does anyone else find it ironic, that you're just giving this guy more attention, by talking about him here just because he was a celebrity? If he was just one more Christian kid that went off and lost his faith, like thousands of others, what does it really matter if he was a singer or not?

It may be very ironic and I won't deny that. But I did not write this simply because he was a singer, I wrote this to tell people that I understand his position. I wrote this not because I was trying to bash him.

I write a lot of things about people who have been influential in my life. I have written about my dad and my mom. I have written about my pastor. And yes, I have written about celebrities; christian celebrities who might have had some kind of impact in my life.

For example, Marty Sampson, which I realized I spelled his name wrong on the title, is someone who was influential in my life because he gave me the desire to really worship God. Every time I saw him on stage I thought I saw passion in him and I desired to have that passion. I also saw this in Darlene Zschech. Watching them worship just made me want to worship God the way that they did. So, no I didn't simply write about him because he was a celebrity. I wrote about him because he had some kind of influence in my life. This happens with celebrities.
 
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Introverted1293

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May I suggest that you ask God for a revelation of His love for you? Hell is not God's choice and it was created for the devil and his angels. Those who refuse God's love share Satan's fate. Yes, the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. I got born again for the most selfish of motives. Over the last 48 years, I've come to know God in ways that I did not know were possible and I now know "What a Friend we Have in Jesus" is not just a nice old song. Suppose you had a dear friend that passed away. A few months later, you have a birthday party. Do you invite your friend? Of course not, he is dead and buried. We are spiritually dead to God. We must be made alive before we can enter His home. Jesus came to make dead people live (John 10:10) not "bad" people "good". Depend on God's love for you. Yes, there are many questions. All will be clear when we see Him face to face. Until then, we may just have to trust His eternal goodness, mercy, grace - and love.

Thank you very much. This is very helpful
 
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Introverted1293

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Another tragic decision. However, it is unsurprising. The reality is that around 95% of churchgoers are not in fact born again. How can you lose something that you never had? On the other hand, how can you be "unborn" again? I would be delighted if all who claimed to be saved made their calling and election sure. Unfortunately the wimpy (and unbiblical) "invite Jesus into your heart" evangelism leads to a shallow and lifeless "Christianism". It's easy to turn away from that. The assurance of God's word is that He will keep all who are His safe and secure no matter what.

Well, I won't argue with you about that. But I hope that you are wrong.
 
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Introverted1293

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Obedience by fear is for the unregenerate. Their hearts are hard and their conscience is seared. When a person accepts the gift of life in Christ, obedience becomes a matter of love. Paul said, the goodness of the Lord leads us to repentance. Jesus said that if we love him we will keep his commandments. Jesus did not mean we keep his commandments to show we love him, but rather, because of our love for him we WANT to keep his commandments.

Well, I hope you are wrong about those who obey God out of fear. I'm not going to argue with you about whether they are truly saved or not.

But I understand that Christians say that the fear of the Lord is a reverence and not a trembling fear. But I see the fear of the Lord as a fear of terror.

So, I just hope you are wrong.
 
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RDKirk

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Since a non Christian cannot renounce Satan and be free from him, you could say that a Christian cannot renounce God and be free from him too.

I would not exactly say that because scripture appears to consider continued slavery to God as a voluntary thing.
 
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AlexDTX

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Well, I hope you are wrong about those who obey God out of fear. I'm not going to argue with you about whether they are truly saved or not.

But I understand that Christians say that the fear of the Lord is a reverence and not a trembling fear. But I see the fear of the Lord as a fear of terror.

So, I just hope you are wrong.
*Scratching my head* Why on Earth do you want a god that is only respected and obeyed because everyone fears him? Do you think God wants that? If you do, you need to take a new look at Christ.
 
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Swan7

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This tells me that he had no faith in God to begin with. It is said in scripture not only about the falling away:
1 John 2:18-27
It is still sad to see people not having any faith in God and turning away from Him, I have seen it unfold myself through others from here. It's so sad... But this is prophecy right before our eyes. The wheat and the tares are separating.
 
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cow451

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Blame his Church. Blame his humanity. Blame the media. Blame unbelievers. Blame Obama. Blame Hillary. Blame Liberals, especially AOC. Blame college professors. Blame Biblical Scholars. Blame the Internet. Blame scientists.

I’m sure I left out somebody.

Evangelical Christians are blameless. Off the hook. Whew.
 
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Guojing

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I would not exactly say that because scripture appears to consider continued slavery to God as a voluntary thing.

So for a non Christian, is he Also volunteering to be a continued slave to the devil? Does he have a choice?
 
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sdowney717

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I was reading what he was saying and he is not understanding the scripture. The way he talks about God and love and miracles and such, He has not been taught scriptural truths, its more of an emotional feeling he had, seems to me. And when circumstances don't line up with his expectations, rather than study to see what scripture actually says as in calling and election and God's great love for those He has chosen from among all nations, his doctrinal reality does not work, so of course he thinks its fakery, just another religion.
 
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Introverted1293

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*Scratching my head* Why on Earth do you want a god that is only respected and obeyed because everyone fears him? Do you think God wants that? If you do, you need to take a new look at Christ.

I am not at all saying that you are wrong. In fact, that is one of my biggest fears. My biggest fear is that God won't accept me because I fear him. I fear his wrath and his punishment. And my reason for wanting to obey him, and walking away from sin is that fear of his punishment. So, my reason is fear.

But the fact that you are saying, which many Christians say the same thing, that God will not accept fearful repentance is confusing to me. He did in the Bible. When the Israelites rebelled against God, he allowed other armies to overtake them, and then they would cry out to God, and God would rescue them. He would send plagues to people that rebelled, and when they cried out to him in repentance, he would remove the plague. And Jesus told people to fear God who has the power to throw both soul and body into hell. And then in Revelations he sent plagues to warn people, and he even sent an angel that cried out in a loud voice (and this is paraphrasing), 'He said in a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water." Revelation 14:7

It does sound like the Bible condones fearing God's wrath. But at the same time, that is just my understanding of scripture.

Oh yeah, there is also the fact that Jesus talked about the sheep or goat (I forgot which one). One group went into outer darkness and the other group went into everlasting life. The one group that went into outer darkness did not feed the poor, did not visit the sick, and did not clothe the naked. But the other group did. But what if someone only clothe the naked, visited the sick, and fed the poor out of fear of being thrown into outer darkness. Why would Jesus warn people if he did not want people to fear?
 
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bekkilyn

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I am not at all saying that you are wrong. In fact, that is one of my biggest fears. My biggest fear is that God won't accept me because I fear him. I fear his wrath and his punishment. And my reason for wanting to obey him, and walking away from sin is that fear of his punishment. So, my reason is fear.

But the fact that you are saying, which many Christians say the same thing, that God will not accept fearful repentance is confusing to me. He did in the Bible. When the Israelites rebelled against God, he allowed other armies to overtake them, and then they would cry out to God, and God would rescue them. He would send plagues to people that rebelled, and when they cried out to him in repentance, he would remove the plague. And Jesus told people to fear God who has the power to throw both soul and body into hell. And then in Revelations he sent plagues to warn people, and he even sent an angel that cried out in a loud voice (and this is paraphrasing), 'He said in a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water." Revelation 14:7

It does sound like the Bible condones fearing God's wrath. But at the same time, that is just my understanding of scripture.

Oh yeah, there is also the fact that Jesus talked about the sheep or goat (I forgot which one). One group went into outer darkness and the other group went into everlasting life. The one group that went into outer darkness did not feed the poor, did not visit the sick, and did not clothe the naked. But the other group did. But what if someone only clothe the naked, visited the sick, and fed the poor out of fear of being thrown into outer darkness. Why would Jesus warn people if he did not want people to fear?

2 Timothy 1:7: For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

1 John 4:18: There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear; for fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not reached perfection in love.

Romans 8:15: For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received a spirit of adoption. When we cry, “Abba! Father!”

Philippians 4:6-7: Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:34-39: Who is to condemn? It is Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will hardship, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written,

“For your sake we are being killed all day long; we are accounted as sheep to be slaughtered.”

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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Introverted1293

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This tells me that he had no faith in God to begin with. It is said in scripture not only about the falling away:
1 John 2:18-27
It is still sad to see people not having any faith in God and turning away from Him, I have seen it unfold myself through others from here. It's so sad... But this is prophecy right before our eyes. The wheat and the tares are separating.

Well, I am hearing a lot of that. I am not claiming that you are wrong, for only God knows whether he was truly born again.

But I do read stories of people of God who turned their back on God. You have the children of Israel who rebelled and turned their back on God, and God sent an army to capture them and destroy them, but then they called out to God and he rescued them.

And then in Jeremiah 2, God is crying for Israel to come back to him after they rebelled against him. I don't know if he is actually crying, but it seems like it.

The point is that there were people who once had faith in God, but then turned away. And what about the prodigal son? How can anyone be the prodigal son if he was never truly a son?

People lose faith all the time.
 
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Swan7

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Well, I am hearing a lot of that. I am not claiming that you are wrong, for only God knows whether he was truly born again.

But I do read stories of people of God who turned their back on God. You have the children of Israel who rebelled and turned their back on God, and God sent an army to capture them and destroy them, but then they called out to God and he rescued them.

And then in Jeremiah 2, God is crying for Israel to come back to him after they rebelled against him. I don't know if he is actually crying, but it seems like it.

The point is that there were people who once had faith in God, but then turned away. And what about the prodigal son? How can anyone be the prodigal son if he was never truly a son?

People lose faith all the time.

Thanks for your reply. Yes, that is true. However the other part of the Bible also says what I already covered. It’s good you brought up that part because that does count for something as it’s God’s Word.
What I mean is taking the Bible as a whole into account is something we all should do, and remind each other what the other part says. Which you have done.

Yes, God knows who are His, Amen. :yellowheart:
 
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GraceBro

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Maybe he should lose his faith. Perhaps, what he is/was believing isn't true. I am not one to equate someone who says they are "losing" their faith with they had true faith in the first place. Someone needs to ask him, "What is your understanding of the Gospel?" That answer may give clarity to what it is he is believing and it may not be saving faith. When he talks about preachers falling, "contradictions" in the Bible, the lack of miracles, etc., all these things tell me he doesn't even know Jesus to begin with because all of these conclusions he is making have answers. So, just pray for him and do not let your heart be troubled saints.
 
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RDKirk

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Maybe he should lose his faith. Perhaps, what he is/was believing isn't true. I am not one to equate someone who says they are "losing" their faith with they had true faith in the first place. Someone needs to ask him, "What is your understanding of the Gospel?" That answer may give clarity to what it is he is believing and it may not be saving faith. When he talks about preachers falling, "contradictions" in the Bible, the lack of miracles, etc., all these things tell me he doesn't even know Jesus to begin with because all of these conclusions he is making have answers. So, just pray for him and do not let your heart be troubled saints.

If you know Jesus, you don't really need those answers. Today, two thousand years after Jesus, we have had hundreds of thousands of people who have developed answers--some born of the Holy Spirit, some not.

But the Christians in the first couple of centuries were willing to be martyred without all those answers...because they knew Jesus, not just textbook answers they'd gotten from theologians.
 
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GraceBro

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If you know Jesus, you don't really need those answers. Today, two thousand years after Jesus, we have had hundreds of thousands of people who have developed answers--some born of the Holy Spirit, some not.

But the Christians in the first couple of centuries were willing to be martyred without all those answers...because they knew Jesus, not just textbook answers they'd gotten from theologians.
Needing the answers and having answers are two separate things. That's all I am saying. This Sampson guy makes it seem like because he doesn't see these things, as if he is the one to define them, then somehow Christianity and the Bible is null and void.
 
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