God loves everyone?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Your post clearly demonstrates the great difference between God as perceived by Old Testament Jews, and God as revealed by Jesus Christ.

Same Creator.

Perfectly Correct.

 

[His student]

Yet not all of His enemies - Scripture, God's Word, is very accurate, correct, and specific.

If it's so accurate, correct, and specific surely you can show us where.

No. Not accurate enough.

If you're looking to engage me in meaningful dialog you'll have to knock off the quick quips and veiled points.

Please do.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

For those that died in the Flood, we know with certainty there was a new chance given (after mortal death): 1 Peter 3:19-20.

No.
Not likely. Not even possible.
There's other explanations of that that does not contradict any Scripture.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If it's so accurate, correct, and specific surely you can show us where

How many times is it written that Yahuweh loved His enemies, OT or NT ? Even those who sought to crucify Yahushua Hamashiach !?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

...If you're looking to engage me in meaningful dialog you'll have to knock off the quick quips and veiled points.....

Most of the members/ posters/ who have ideas , doctrines, dogmas, or teachings opposed to Christ Jesus
do not want to engage in truth seeking dialog.

Those who are seeking the truth, and keep seeking the truth, find the truth. This is Yahuweh's Promise (not my quip )....

 

[renniks]

Its irresistible because you see nothing better than what God gives. If your heart longs for it, you will pursue it.

As long as you remain unregenerate, you are "forced" to live a rebellious sinful life in hostility against God and his laws. Isn't that how you lived before you were saved? Enslaved to sin. God made you free in Christ from living that life.

You are avoiding the obvious. In your system, God is just ripping out your heart and implanting a new
one. It's as if I could implant a chip in my wife's brain that programmed her to have loving feelings for me. Not as if she made a choice to love me. If God implants the "love me" card in your heart, then you express love for him, but it's really just compliance. You didn't choose to love him.

 

[Halbhh]

No.
Not likely. Not even possible.
There's other explanations of that that does not contradict any Scripture.

I'll stay with the clear-enough direct wording --

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. ...
1 Peter 3 NIV

Now, one can indeed read commentaries on this of course, and compare those to all of scripture....

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You are avoiding the obvious. In your system, God is just ripping out your heart and implanting a new
one. It's as if I could implant a chip in my wife's brain that programmed her to have loving feelings for me. Not as if she made a choice to love me. If God implants the "love me" card in your heart, then you express love for him, but it's really just compliance. You didn't choose to love him.

"free in Christ" to some means , to them, their free will is tossed out (their chip in their heart or brain is replaced with a chip that cannot choose any more who to follow... it just does what it is programmed to do....

Since God does not take away the free will of a person saved in Christ,

either the person does endure to the end, of their free will / choice,
or he does not endure to the end, somewhere along the way
he chooses to follow another voice .... thus losing the free gift of eternal life ....

 

[renniks]

Why deny His Word ? Why continually fight against His Word ?

I'm not, I'm showing that Jesus upped the ante so to speak, by showing us more of himself than David or any of the OT Saints could see. Jesus said, Matthew 5:43
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Did David understand the attributes of God as well as Jesus did?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I'm not, I'm showing that Jesus upped the ante so to speak, by showing us more of himself than David or any of the OT Saints could see. Jesus said, Matthew 5:43
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

...


BE PERFECT. No other option for Ekklesia (disciples).

Does this change Yahuweh's Word where it states when / who to hate ? (no)

 

[Jonaitis]

You are avoiding the obvious. In your system, God is just ripping out your heart and implanting a new
one. It's as if I could implant a chip in my wife's brain that programmed her to have loving feelings for me. Not as if she made a choice to love me. If God implants the "love me" card in your heart, then you express love for him, but it's really just compliance. You didn't choose to love him.

"I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules."

- Ezekiel 36:25-27

I suppose your contention is with God, not me.

 

[His student]

How many times is it written that Yahuweh loved His enemies, OT or NT ? Even those who sought to crucify Yahushua Hamashiach !?

I don't know. How many? And where?

Most of the members/ posters/ who have ideas , doctrines, dogmas, or teachings opposed to Christ Jesus
do not want to engage in truth seeking dialog.

I don't fit that category. But I do want to engage in dialog - if you are willing to talk straight.

Those who are seeking the truth, and keep seeking the truth, find the truth. This is Yahuweh's Promise

Of course.

They just don't have to seek that truth by suffering for long the silliness of someone who finds it telling of their spirituality to speak pigeon Hebrew and veil their points.

One last chance with me or you can go on to trying to impress others with your mastery of supposed Hebrew words and customs.

 

[renniks]

Since you're bent on bashing Calvinism - you really should get what they teach right.

Every natural man has the ability to free reject the gift according to Calvinism.

The point made in their teaching point called "total depravity" is that natural men can't accept it unless they somehow become "unnatural" by the grace of God.

Although the grace extended is indeed irresistible in that it is done supernaturally in secret - the actual impulse to accept the gift itself is indeed resistible to a certain degree. After all - Paul kicked against the goads for some time before finally believing on Christ.

Resistible to a certain degree, but destined to happen or not happen? Nope, this is not where Calvinism leads. It leads the determinism, where every thought and action is really pre decided for you. Perhaps you have just not gone deep enough into the endless pit that it is. And the reason I went there, is because it was obviously where the other poster was going.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I don't know. How many? And where?

Partial List:
Resources » Dictionary of Bible Themes » 8000 The life of the believer » 8200 The character of the believer » 8292 love » 8301 love, and enemies
8301 love, and enemies
8301 love, and enemies
God loves even those who oppose him and believers must follow his example in loving their enemies.

God’s love for sinners
Isa 53:6; Jn 3:16; 2Pe 3:9 See also Ge 18:32; La 3:33; Eze 18:23; Mt 5:45; Ro 5:8; Ro 8:32; 2Co 5:19; 1Jn 4:9-10

The example of Jesus Christ
Mt 23:37 pp Lk 13:34 1Pe 3:18 See also Isa 53:5; Mt 20:28 pp Mk 10:45; Lk 23:34; Ro 5:6; 2Co 5:14; 2Co 8:9; Heb 13:12; 1Pe 2:21,24; 1Jn 2:2

God’s people must love their enemies
Lev 19:18; Lk 6:35-36 See also Ex 23:4; Pr 24:17; Pr 25:21; Mt 5:44; Lk 6:27; Col 3:13; 1Th 5:15; 2Ti 2:25; 1Pe 3:9

Examples of love for enemies
Ge 50:20-21 Joseph; Nu 12:13; 1Sa 24:17; 1Sa 26:21; 2Sa 19:23; 2Ki 6:22 the king of Israel; Ac 7:60 Stephen; Ac 9:17 Ananias; 1Co 4:12

 

[renniks]

"I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules."

- Ezekiel 36:25-27

I suppose your contention is with God, not me.

Yes, he will, but not unless one humbles himself and receives the new heart. This passage is actually about Israel. Does every Jew receive salvation? In fact, Paul has to keep reiterating that God had not failed just because most of Israel did not come to faith, but that God was faithful even if most of his people were not.

 

[Jonaitis]

Yes, he will, but not unless one humbles himself and receives the new heart. This passage is actually about Israel. Does every Jew receive salvation? In fact, Paul has to keep reiterating that God had not failed just because most of Israel did not come to faith, but that God was faithful even if most of his people were not.

Well, that doesn't make sense.

"None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one” - Romans 3:11, 12.

"For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God." - Romans 8:6-8

"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14

This passage refers to after the exile, which does refer to the Church, the true Israel.

 

[fhansen]

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
— John 3:16

The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes;
You hate all who do iniquity. You destroy those who speak falsehood;
The Lord abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit.
— Psalm 5:5-6

God hates evil/injustice-He didn't create it and will not allow it to persist forever. But it's also said that evil grieves God's heart; because He made man good. But we can corrupt that; we can embrace evil and become less than we were created to be, something to be cast away-or not. That's both the beauty and the danger of free will.

 

[His student]

Resistible to a certain degree, but destined to happen or not happen?

Everything that happens in the history of the creation was predestined to happen.

this is not where Calvinism leads. It leads the determinism, where every thought and action is really pre decided for you.

You are wrong. The predestination of every thought and action taken by men in no way negates the free choices of men.

Perhaps you have just not gone deep enough into the endless pit that it is.

Indeed I have.

Calvinism (as displayed in the Westminster Confession of Faith) makes it a point to affirm that God's predestination of every event in no way does violence to the will of men. Any charge against Calvinism to the contrary is nothing but a straw man.

I don't know how much more clear it could be than this.

"God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established."

You may well say what other anti-Calvinism types have said - that that is contradictory and makes no sense. While I have no problem explaining how it can be to anyone willing to listen - my final word to those who won't is to take it up with God - I'm just the messenger.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
— John 3:16

The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes;
You hate all who do iniquity. You destroy those who speak falsehood;
The Lord abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit.
— Psalm 5:5-6

I guess it depends on what is meant by hate since 1 John says a murderer has no eternal life in him, and hating is the same as murdering apparently.

The God that hates does not have eternal life, but the God who is love, does.

so I guess I'll trust in the one that does.

 

[Hammster]

A lot of folks zeroed in on “hate” and tried to say that it didn’t really mean what it says. But almost everyone ignored “abhor” in the next verse.