Dayton shooter was pro antifa

[Albion]

I'm not really sure what the intention behind this thread is at all.

The motive behind the Dayton shooting are still unclear. Even if this guy was such a fanatic leftist-antifa-Bernie-Bro-Warren-supporting-socialist... it is not clear yet if this shooting had something to do with these things. It seems to be a little strange for a leftist-socialist-antifa-activist to shoot up a bunch of people in a bar. Had he stormed a bank... well...

But let's say it was indeed political, or in some way related to his political views. So what? Are we (leftists) now supposed to defend him?

And yet, look at the reactions here. The people wanting to make hay out of what happened in El Paso started to find fault with any statement that attributed, even provisionally, the motives of the Dayton shooter to his outspoken and clear-cut political views.

By contrast, no conservative-leaning poster attempted to defend, minimize, or excuse the El Paso shooter's actions in any way or to smudge the facts of that incident.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Is there any connection between the shooting and his politics?

Not that it changes the depravity of his crime but it seems like you’re trying to make that connection for some reason.

There's no connection between the politics of white supremacists and 95% of the violence they commit. That doesn't stop anyone from drawing conclusions though.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

And yet, look at the reactions here. The people wanting to make hay out of what happened in El Paso started to find fault with any statement that attributed, even provisionally, the motives of the Dayton shooter to his outspoken and clear-cut political views.

Looking through his tweets, I see outpoken, clear-cut, political views, but no connection to his target. What he did was horrible, but I don't see how his political views are relevant. If it comes out that he was targeting people that he saw as facists or had some plan to use his attack to launch a socialist revolution, then I will absolutely mark his attack down in the column of left-wing violence. But we don't have that. The closest thing I saw on his Twitter was the "I want socialism and I'm not going to wait." tweet. Which was two years ago. If it was two days ago, you could make an argument that there was a connection, but saying that you're not going to wait and promptly waiting two years doesn't follow.

There's no question that he was a radical leftist. No one is arguing that. But without any indication that his attack was prompted by his political beliefs, it's no more relevant than him being in a band, or being white, or being male. It's simply a part of his character.

By contrast, no conservative-leaning poster attempted to defend, minimize, or excuse the El Paso shooter's actions in any way or to smudge the facts of that incident.

I should hope not. When you say that you're going to stop the Mexican invasion of Texas, then proceed to shoot up a location with lots of Mexicans minutes later, it's pretty clear what your goals were.

 

[Albion]

If it comes out that he was targeting people that he saw as facists or had some plan to use his attack to launch a socialist revolution, then I will absolutely mark his attack down in the column of left-wing violence. But we don't have that.

We don't have it in the El Paso case either.

The closest thing I saw on his Twitter was the "I want socialism and I'm not going to wait." tweet.

Well, I have already mentioned other comments.

There's no question that he was a radical leftist. No one is arguing that. But without any indication that his attack was prompted by his political beliefs, it's no more relevant than him being in a band, or being white, or being male. It's simply a part of his character.

I just cannot image coming to such an antiseptic conclusion, when he loved violence, apparently thought non-Nazi were actual Nazis and deserved death-- people in general who were not advancing his Socialist vision, I suppose that probably might have been.

But the main thing is the disturbing imbalance in the comments that we have witnessed--"Trump caused it" in El Paso. "He has blood on his hands," yada yada yada...while at the same time, every possible rationalization is used to make the Dayton shooting seem likely to have been random and certainly unprovoked by anything in particular. .

That's despite the guy being known to be violent, a gun lover, a person who hated people whom he saw as Nazis, said they deserved death and he wasn't going to wait longer. Why would you absolutely refuse to put 2 and 2 together even as a possibility??

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

Looking through his tweets, I see outpoken, clear-cut, political views, but no connection to his target. What he did was horrible, but I don't see how his political views are relevant. If it comes out that he was targeting people that he saw as facists or had some plan to use his attack to launch a socialist revolution, then I will absolutely mark his attack down in the column of left-wing violence. But we don't have that. The closest thing I saw on his Twitter was the "I want socialism and I'm not going to wait." tweet. Which was two years ago. If it was two days ago, you could make an argument that there was a connection, but saying that you're not going to wait and promptly waiting two years doesn't follow.

There's no question that he was a radical leftist. No one is arguing that. But without any indication that his attack was prompted by his political beliefs, it's no more relevant than him being in a band, or being white, or being male. It's simply a part of his character.


I should hope not. When you say that you're going to stop the Mexican invasion of Texas, then proceed to shoot up a location with lots of Mexicans minutes later, it's pretty clear what your goals were.

The band Neckbeard Deathcamp questions that openly on their Twitter. I’d link to it if it wasn’t for the censorship on this website. Here is the pertinent part: “I DON’T KNOW IF I WOULD USE THE TERM LEFTIST TO DESIGNATE ONE OF THE DUDES IN MENSTRUAL MUNCHIES.
ANTIFACISTS SURE. BUT NOT GREAT WITH WOMEN.”

 

[David Kent]

According to the TV news, the Dayton shooting was the 250th mass shooting in the US this year. Were the perpetrators all left wing socialoists?

And what happened to all those "good guys with guns" who were supposed to stop the "bad guys with guns"?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

The band Neckbeard Deathcamp questions that openly on their Twitter. I’d link to it if it wasn’t for the censorship on this website. Here is the pertinent part: “I DON’T KNOW IF I WOULD USE THE TERM LEFTIST TO DESIGNATE ONE OF THE DUDES IN MENSTRUAL MUNCHIES.
ANTIFACISTS SURE. BUT NOT GREAT WITH WOMEN.”

Ok fine, almost no one is arguing it. Forgive my hyperbole.

 

[Speedwell]

According to the TV news, the Dayton shooting was the 250th mass shooting in the US this year. Were the perpetrators all left wing socialoists?

And what happened to all those "good guys with guns" who were supposed to stop the "bad guys with guns"?

Everything bad that happens in this country is perpetrated by left-wing socialists. Conservatives are all benign and blameless.

 

[Darkhorse]

And what happened to all those "good guys with guns" who were supposed to stop the "bad guys with guns"?

You won't find as many concealed carriers in a district that elected Beto O'Rourke.

 

[Nithavela]

Did he also wear pants?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

We don't have it in the El Paso case either.

What? The guy posted - minutes before he started shooting up a Walmart full of shoppers from Mexico - that he was going to stop the Mexican invasion.

I just cannot image coming to such an antiseptic conclusion, when he loved violence, apparently thought non-Nazi were actual Nazis and deserved death-- people in general who were not advancing his Socialist vision, I suppose that probably might have been.

Did he say anything about thinking that the people he killed on Sunday were Nazis?

But the main thing is the disturbing imbalance in the comments that we have witnessed--"Trump caused it" in El Paso. "He has blood on his hands," yada yada yada...while at the same time, every possible rationalization is used to make the Dayton shooting seem likely to have been random and certainly unprovoked by anything in particular. .

When the shooter is echoing statements that the President has made many times over the past four years, it's hard not to make a connection. And I'm not trying to make the Dayton shooting seem random - I honestly have no idea. The police have no idea. YOU have no idea. What I am seeing are desperate efforts from the right to paint the Dayton shooting as "left-wing violence." It's certainly a possibility, but you and others are instead framing it as fact.

That's despite the guy being known to be violent, a gun lover, a person who hated people whom he saw as Nazis, said they deserved death and he wasn't going to wait longer. Why would you absolutely refuse to put 2 and 2 together even as a possibility??

I'm not refusing to put 2 and 2 together. Two of the four things you listed have nothing to do with his politics (violence and loving guns), hating Nazis and saying they deserve death is only relevant if he was attacking Nazis (or people he thought were Nazis), and a statement two years ago saying that he wanted socialism and wasn't going to wait any longer seems like grasping at straws.

 

[Zanting]

None of this should be made into a left or right issue.

But the democrats were the first to make it so...Elizabeth Warren should not be trying to make money off it. That's extremely insensitive to those who lost loved ones. Disgusting in fact.

On line, someone even changed some of the personal information on shooter Patrick Crusius to make him a republican right wing extremist when he is actually a democrat. Sick people are making this political when it shouldn't even be considered.

Everyone knows that guns don't kill people...people kill people. Angry, hateful, revengeful people kill people. Sick people kill people...and some of them choose to use a gun to do so.

 

[KCfromNC]

According to the TV news, the Dayton shooting was the 250th mass shooting in the US this year. Were the perpetrators all left wing socialoists?

And what happened to all those "good guys with guns" who were supposed to stop the "bad guys with guns"?

Good job identifying a number of right wing fantasies in a single post. The challenge is what to do now that they are laid out like this.

 

[Ana the Ist]

What? The guy posted - minutes before he started shooting up a Walmart full of shoppers from Mexico - that he was going to stop the Mexican invasion.


Did he say anything about thinking that the people he killed on Sunday were Nazis?


When the shooter is echoing statements that the President has made many times over the past four years, it's hard not to make a connection. And I'm not trying to make the Dayton shooting seem random - I honestly have no idea. The police have no idea. YOU have no idea. What I am seeing are desperate efforts from the right to paint the Dayton shooting as "left-wing violence." It's certainly a possibility, but you and others are instead framing it as fact.


I'm not refusing to put 2 and 2 together. Two of the four things you listed have nothing to do with his politics (violence and loving guns), hating Nazis and saying they deserve death is only relevant if he was attacking Nazis (or people he thought were Nazis), and a statement two years ago saying that he wanted socialism and wasn't going to wait any longer seems like grasping at straws.

He's a violent left wing radical. He holds deeply pro-socialist, pro-progressive, pro-Antifa beliefs. Remember this?

White supremacists committed most extremist killings in 2017, ADL says

Articles like this came out and everyone said "Oh no....white supremacists are all terrorists now!"

Yet if you look through the list....the vast majority of incidents had nothing to do with white supremacy. It was "guy gets in fight with girlfriend and kills her" or "guy shoots neighbor and had copy of mein kampf". I pointed this out to many posters....many times....and yet the same claim, same article kept popping up.

Well guess what? If you want to admit that it doesn't really count unless we actually know that the killing is tied to ideology ....fine. In that case, white supremacy kills less than 2 dozen people a year. It's not exactly a national crisis. If however, it's the ideology of the person that matters more....then guess what?

You've got your second left wing nutjob psycho extremist and the left should own up to its body count. A couple more of these and we'll need to have a talk about eradicating left wing extremism by....I don't know, throwing them in jail for what they say?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Yet if you look through the list....the vast majority of incidents had nothing to do with white supremacy. It was "guy gets in fight with girlfriend and kills her" or "guy shoots neighbor and had copy of mein kampf". I pointed this out to many posters....many times....and yet the same claim, same article kept popping up.

Well guess what? If you want to admit that it doesn't really count unless we actually know that the killing is tied to ideology ....fine. In that case, white supremacy kills less than 2 dozen people a year.

For the record, I agree with you on this. I have never cited that article - or seen it before, for that matter.

I'm not so dismissive of the dangers of white supremacy though - two dozen killed by hateful ideology is two dozen too many. Furthermore, violence aside, people seem to be more willing to express racist and white supremacist views openly, and I can't see that as anything but bad for our country.

 

[Aldebaran]

Lol. He literally used the exact words we’ve been hearing from the president over the past 3 years.

Who else has been referring to and calling the migrants from the South an “invasion”?

It's been referred to that way since even before Obama was elected the first time.

 

[Aldebaran]

According to the TV news, the Dayton shooting was the 250th mass shooting in the US this year. Were the perpetrators all left wing socialoists?

And what happened to all those "good guys with guns" who were supposed to stop the "bad guys with guns"?

They were busy obeying the "gun free zone" signs. That's what it means to be a law abiding citizen.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

It's been referred to that way since even before Obama was elected the first time.

You don’t gotta tell me Hispanic prejudice is not a new thing in America.

 

[Aldebaran]

You don’t gotta tell me Hispanic prejudice is not a new thing in America.

Then I won't bother telling you that the invasion has been going on for just as long as the perceived "prejudice".

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Then I won't bother telling you that the invasion has been going on for just as long as the perceived "prejudice".

Oh, you call it an invasion too, huh. I won’t bother correcting you.