At least 9 dead, 26 injured in mass shooting in downtown Dayton, Ohio

[paul1149]

what will it take for this to end?

The thing that struck me about the Walmart shooter was the size of the magazine he was using. It looked like a 30 rounder. Guns haven't appreciably changed over the decades, with the exception of their firing capacity.

People have changed. There used to be rifle clubs in high schools, with kids bringing their rifles into the schools. There used to be intact families, that actually ate dinner together and spent common time in the living room each night. It used to be that violence and strife and immorality and inanity weren't constantly piped into those living rooms electronically. It used to be that the Ten Commandments were posted on the walls of public buildings, including schools, and public prayer was allowed. And it used to be that unborn life was protected.

None of that was perfect; far from it. But that was the norm and the dominant cultural message. Now in large measure that is gone, and affect of its lack on people has been devastating.

The solution to the gun violence will have to be broad-based and address all these issues. Most of the problem, in my view, is "software" based, as per above, but there may be hardware issues we should look at as well, such as magazine capacity.

 

[mama2one]

people need to be aware and speak up when they hear "talk" as this has saved some incidents from happening

 

[Speedwell]

as phase 1, but somewhere down the line semi's need to be banned and handguns need to be restricted.

Indeed, but it has always struck me as weird that any machine I want to own which represents a potential risk to the general public--a car, a boat, and airplane, even a steam boiler--requires registered ownership and liability insurance, except for a gun.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

as phase 1, but somewhere down the line semi's need to be banned and handguns need to be restricted.

I agree, mass punishment as in the military. If one soldier steps out of line the whole platoon is punished.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The thing that struck me about the Walmart shooter was the size of the magazine he was using. It looked like a 30 rounder. Guns haven't appreciably changed over the decades, with the exception of their firing capacity.

People have changed. There used to be rifle clubs in high schools, with kids bringing their rifles into the schools. There used to be intact families, that actually ate dinner together and spent common time in the living room each night. It used to be that violence and strife and immorality and inanity weren't constantly piped into those living rooms electronically. It used to be that the Ten Commandments were posted on the walls of public buildings, including schools, and public prayer was allowed. And it used to be that unborn life was protected.

None of that was perfect; far from it. But that was the norm and the dominant cultural message. Now in large measure that is gone, and affect of its lack on people has been devastating.

The solution to the gun violence will have to be broad-based and address all these issues. Most of the problem, in my view, is "software" based, as per above, but there may be hardware issues we should look at as well, such as magazine capacity.

Our entertainment is very violent. Large magazines are needed to mow people down like they were grass. What's on the horizon is far worse however...bombs.

 

[RDKirk]

Do people not understand when they're seeing an overarching principality at work in a region?

 

[dogs4thewin]

The thing would not allow me to lead anything but the chart. I did not say that the PERSON who did the shooting actually bought the gun though. Legally owned and legally owned by the person who committed the act are different things. People could give the gun to others. The person could have taken the gun from a family member ( which are often not reported stolen at first. The person could have purchased the gun years earlier and have since had mental issues.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Given the fact that I live here, I think I can speak candidly about the distribution of crime in our city.

The areas mentioned aren’t affluent, wealthy, or places most residents would choose if their finances didn’t require it.

They’re poor and move where they can afford to live. Unfortunately, other elements take up residence too.

I'm guessing those areas comprise most of Chicago.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The thing would not allow me to lead anything but the chart. I did not say that the PERSON who did the shooting actually bought the gun though. Legally owned and legally owned by the person who committed the act are different things. People could give the gun to others. The person could have taken the gun from a family member ( which are often not reported stolen at first. The person could have purchased the gun years earlier and have since had mental issues.

True, you can't blame a certain circumstance. It's a mish-mash of reasons.

 

[dogs4thewin]

people need to be aware and speak up when they hear "talk" as this has saved some incidents from happening

two girls at one of our schools reported a boy's talk about killing and the police were called immediately

us parents received a letter from the school about it

that too and kids need to be taught there are some things about which you do not joke. Additionally. sometimes there are times when people are scared to come forward and say something.

 

[Speedwell]

I'm guessing those areas comprise most of Chicago.

yes, you are guessing.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

saturation will still statistically be you're biggest contributors to illegal use.

I'm guessing that today there are more guns but in fewer hands. In the past almost everyone had a gun of some kind, so there was actually more 'saturation'. People have changed. Evil is taking hold of us, but like the frog being slowly boiled we aren't really aware of it (is it hot in here or is it just me).

 

[OldWiseGuy]

yes, you are guessing.

I'm guessing it's a good guess. But I just asked LaBella about it.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Given the fact that I live here, I think I can speak candidly about the distribution of crime in our city.

The areas mentioned aren’t affluent, wealthy, or places most residents would choose if their finances didn’t require it.

They’re poor and move where they can afford to live. Unfortunately, other elements take up residence too.

Since you live there perhaps you can tell us a little about the areas of the city where these shooting occurred as noted in the article.

 

[bèlla]

I'm guessing those areas comprise most of Chicago.

The areas closest to the lake and center (downtown) have less crime than others. They’re also proportionally more affluent the nearer you come to each.

There’s more wealth, better schools, better infrastructure, more activities, better grocers and food options, less crime and less diversity.

Its possible to live here and be wholly removed from everything you shared. Affluent neighborhoods are worlds unto themselves. You don’t need to leave the area for daily necessities. They’re constructed to put everything at your fingertips.

I never venture to the places on that map. I have no reason to.

 

[Speedwell]

Background check sales records, hunting license sales, ammunition and accessory sales. DNR records which show licensing for shotgun only areas and centerfire rifle areas, big game handgun license records.

None of which show specifically who possesses the gun right now and how he came by it. In Chicago, which you were just talking about, has very strict gun laws but some of the surrounding communities do not. Guns pour into the city by way of unregistered transfers and straw buyers. "Oh, yeah, I used to own that gun years ago but I sold it to my cousin and then he died and I don't know what became of it. I don't know how it got involved in that drive-by shooting." King's X.

 

[bèlla]

Since you live there perhaps you can tell us a little about the areas of the city where these shooting occurred as noted in the article.

They’re poor and known for violence, drugs and gang activity. The demographic is largely comprised of minorities and others lacking the resources to live in better areas.

There are many single parent homes and the housing isn’t the best. Oftentimes they pay too much for what they’re getting.

Schools are funded through property taxes. Due to the poverty they have less than other areas. There’s not a lot of development either.

Many are food deserts. Neighborhood stores lack fresh fruit and vegetables and usually sell goods at higher prices.

The areas are economically depressed and depressing.

 

[DamianWarS]

I'm guessing that today there are more guns but in fewer hands. In the past almost everyone had a gun of some kind, so there was actually more 'saturation'. People have changed. Evil is taking hold of us, but like the frog being slowly boiled we aren't really aware of it (is it hot in here or is it just me).

There use to be a greater saturation of hunting rifles and shotguns. Those guns aren't the problem.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

What are the qualifiers/disqualifiers in the Czech Republic that account for their low gun crime rate?

Everyone repeats gun control yet no one seems to explain the specific details how it would had prevented it in those situations.

Oldwiseguy...to answer your questions, their mandated training and safety courses are likely the driver behind their low accident rate, and their low mass shooting rate can be attributed to their "upstream screening" that I referred to with regards to a more comprehensive mental health check.

Their lower overall crime rate (gun related or otherwise) can be attributed to a few things...
They do a better job of making sure basic necessities are met, thus reducing the motivation to engage in "opportunity crimes" or "criminal lifestyles". Most people, given the choice, don't want to be street level criminals.

Education is widely available for those who want it, regardless of their circumstances of birth (IE: parents' net worth) so there's more true equal opportunity to pursue legitimate earning possibilities, thus reducing crime.


The GOP shoots themselves in the foot (no pun intended...okay, maybe a little pun intended) with regards to their "policy package".

Policies that enable easy firearm acquisition, coupled with policies that pretty much perpetuate poverty (thus driving up crime) are the recipe for creating a more violent area. They need to be willing to budge on one of those things, otherwise it's rinse & repeat.

David, to answer your question, the Czech system of screening weeds out a large number of the mentally unstable people, thus drastically lowering the likelihood of these things happening. It also mandates storage requirements for defensive weapons when not being carried, especially in cases when the applicant shares a residency with someone who is mentally ill. Many of these mass shooters, who obtained their guns legally under our system (or got a hold of them due to mom & dad keeping it unlocked in a nightstand), would've failed the screening process under the Czech system.

Doesn't mean it's going to catch everyone, but if only a small number of mentally unstable people actually act on these instabilities, and you manage to greatly minimize the number that have access to guns, thus exponentially reducing the frequency of these events.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Sure, but that training does not need to be by the government.

People can pay for it if they want but it would cost them a lot of money. I think people should have to go through basic training to be qualified to own a gun. I am not so sure anyone should own assault weapons. As their main function is to do a lot of damage to a lot of people.