How is Salvation, or anything you get from God, a "free gift" if our own will got it for us...?

[eleos1954]

Many people think that we have the power of choice when we really do not, not really, ect...

Someone offers you a gift ... you choose whether to accept the gift or not.

Gods foreknowledge ... He knows who will accept the gift but He does not control the choices.

Predestination:

Mankind was created in the image of God and mankind was predestined to that end ... however that end ... is by each of us making the choice willingly ... God does not and will not force anyone with that decision. It is about Love ... no one can force one to love another ... we know that ... God knows that.

When one accepts the gift ... then the Lord begins His work in that person, changing them over the course of their life ... becoming more and more like Him (in character - His image). He will lead them to His Word and through His Word ... they receive more knowledge ... if they pursue it ... and they will be compelled to do so by the Holy Spirit .... yet ... even so ... one can ignore the Holy Spirit and if one continually does so ... He will .... remove His spirit from them because of their choice.

We always have choices, we are not robots, we are intelligent human beings and God treats us that way.

 

[bling]

Many are called, few are chosen.
I don't get to do the choosing.

M-Bob

Who does God choose and why?

 

[bling]

No, if you have to make the choice to recieve or reject it, and/or beyond that, work towards it to keep and/or maintain or retain it, or have to choose to either accept or receive it or reject it, then it was not free because your choice determined it, etc.

God Bless!

That is a very strange definition of a free gift and does not have biblical support as far as I know.

If a million dollars was laid in front of you as a free gift and you were told it is yours if you want it, does picking it up mean you worked for it?

The people who accepted the invitation to the party were not presented as earning it, were they?

Was Lazarus at the rich man’s gate earning his living, so the rich man needed to pay him or was he to show pure charity (Love) toward him?

We could go on, but the Bible explains work, earning money, what deserving is and what gifts, so where are you getting your definition for these words?

 

[Ronald]

How is Salvation, or anything you/me/we get or receive from God a "free gift" if our own will in any way got it or gets it for us...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Everything good comes from God, He's the CREATOR. If we could earn salvation, Jesus would not have had to be a sacrificial lamb. He paid the price. Faith is a GIFT, so it has nothing to do with your will. God enables your will to receive Him, otherwise our rebellious sin nature ledt to itself has nowhere to go but down your own path and reject Him. Jesus even said, NO ONE can come to the Father unless He first draws them. This drawing power is a gradual process by which He orchestrates people and events in your life, lifts the veil of spiritual blindness so that you can see.
There is nothing a person's will can do to remove spiritual blindness by himself.
So it is a foolish notion to think man can choose God or receive the gifts of life, material needs and spiritual gifts all by himself.
Your will isn't as free as you think anyways. You are either a slave to God or a slave to Satan.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Who does God choose and why?

Best to ask God that one.

Repent and Trust in Christ.

M-Bob

 

[bling]

Best to ask God that one.

Repent and Trust in Christ.

M-Bob

That is not a Biblical answer, but one you made up yourself.

Does your understanding of God and scripture allow for God to be totally arbitrary of one from another?

With your understanding of Godly type Love and God’s omnipotence, how could God save just some, since he could just as easily and safely save everyone, since everyone is the same prior to His deciding who will be saved?

I do not have to ask God why He saved one person and did not save another, since He has told us His plan all along, was He chose to save all who accept the invitation.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

That is not a Biblical answer, but one you made up yourself.

Does your understanding of God and scripture allow for God to be totally arbitrary of one from another?

With your understanding of Godly type Love and God’s omnipotence, how could God save just some, since he could just as easily and safely save everyone, since everyone is the same prior to His deciding who will be saved?

I do not have to ask God why He saved one person and did not save another, since He has told us His plan all along, was He chose to save all who accept the invitation.

Seems that some in the Old Testament were heading for hell?
M-Bob

 

[bling]

Seems that some in the Old Testament were heading for hell?
M-Bob

How does that address my questions?

That is not a Biblical answer, but one you made up yourself.

Does your understanding of God and scripture allow for God to be totally arbitrary of one from another?

With your understanding of Godly type Love and God’s omnipotence, how could God save just some, since he could just as easily and safely save everyone, since everyone is the same prior to His deciding who will be saved?

I do not have to ask God why He saved one person and did not save another, since He has told us His plan all along, was He chose to save all who accept the invitation.

 

[Strong in Him]

How is Salvation, or anything you/me/we get or receive from God a "free gift" if our own will in any way got it or gets it for us...?

Our own will didn't get it for us.
Jesus died to reconcile mankind to God. This was God's will, and plan; he didn't ask for our opinion or permission. God gives every Spiritual blessing to those who believe and are in his Son. Ephesians 1:3. This was his will and plan; not ours.
Salvation is from God - his doing and his will. It is a gift for us if we want to accept it, Romans 6:23. We can accept it, or reject it. God still offers it, and goes on offering it until it is too late.

 

[Strong in Him]

I believe that all choices are already known and were prearranged or predetermined by God long, long, long ago, from His very first choice to create or set all things in motion, that the fact that we think we choose is an illusion or delusion...

Why would God do that?
Are you saying that God made all people in his image, decided beforehand that some of them were never going to be allowed to know him and therefore go to hell, and decided to deceive those who were hand picked by him to go to heaven anyway, by making it look as though they had been allowed to choose?

God is involved in deception and game playing? Really?
God cannot sin - he is holy and cannot tolerate sin. He is also light and there is no darkness in him at all.

In the OT the Israelites were punished because they turned away from God and chose to worship idols; again and again. God sent godly judges or kings who tried to lead the people back to God; if the nation was facing disaster, they said "ok", and repented. But when the bad times passed, or the judge/king died they constantly turned away again and sinned. The prophets were always saying "choose whom you will serve".

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Free gifts, that we have no way of obtaining on our own, can still be rejected.

Quite right. The majority of folk all around us are rejecting the free gift of salvation through Christ. The Scripture says, "How shall they escape, who neglect so great a salvation?"

 

[Mountainmanbob]

since He has told us His plan all along, was He chose to save all who accept the invitation.

I don't think that means everybody?
MB

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Who does God choose and why?

I don't know. It is one of those mysteries that are not fully explained to us.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Why would God do that?
Are you saying that God made all people in his image, decided beforehand that some of them were never going to be allowed to know him and therefore go to hell, and decided to deceive those who were hand picked by him to go to heaven anyway, by making it look as though they had been allowed to choose?

God is involved in deception and game playing? Really?
God cannot sin - he is holy and cannot tolerate sin. He is also light and there is no darkness in him at all.

In the OT the Israelites were punished because they turned away from God and chose to worship idols; again and again. God sent godly judges or kings who tried to lead the people back to God; if the nation was facing disaster, they said "ok", and repented. But when the bad times passed, or the judge/king died they constantly turned away again and sinned. The prophets were always saying "choose whom you will serve".

Just don't seem fair -- does it?
Sometimes man hardens his heart.
Sometimes God hardens mans heart.
MB

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That is not a Biblical answer, but one you made up yourself.

Does your understanding of God and scripture allow for God to be totally arbitrary of one from another?

With your understanding of Godly type Love and God’s omnipotence, how could God save just some, since he could just as easily and safely save everyone, since everyone is the same prior to His deciding who will be saved?

I do not have to ask God why He saved one person and did not save another, since He has told us His plan all along, was He chose to save all who accept the invitation.

Yes. Our role is to believe the gospel and accept the invitation to come to Christ and put our trust in Him for our salvation. Our election depends on whether we have embraced Christ or not. Therefore, we add our faith to the salvation promises in the Bible and worry about our election later.

 

[bling]

I don't think that means everybody?
MB

When you get down to inviting the homeless street people you pretty much covered everyone, the servant seemed to think there was no one left to invite.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Just don't seem fair -- does it?
Sometimes man hardens his heart.
Sometimes God hardens mans heart.
MB

God has given us definite promises through the gospel and we are given the invitation to accept or reject them. It is not God who hardens one's heart - it is their own sinfulness and determination to hold on to their sinful life rather than to attach faith to God's promise of salvation in Christ. When people continually resist the Holy Spirit's promptings to receive Christ, God gives them up to their sin and will bring them to judgment at the appropriate time.

 

[bling]

I don't know. It is one of those mysteries that are not fully explained to us.

No the Bible pretty much explains it.

 

[Soyeong]

How is Salvation, or anything you/me/we get or receive from God a "free gift" if our own will in any way got it or gets it for us...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

To use an analogy, if a professional musician were to train me how to play an instrument as a free gift to me, then the training itself would be the content of the free gift and participating in this training would not be doing anything earn the free gift, but rather it would be what it looks like to receive it.

In the same way, in Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so this training is the content of the free gift and participating in this training would not be doing anything to earn the free gift, but rather it would be what it looks like to receive it. In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to obey His Law, so that is how God is gracious to us.

 

[Blade]

All not some not most but ALL good things come from God. So that tiny thought, desire what ever it was that lead you to Christ.. that you (being anyone) think it was your own will.. never was. That was the holy Spirit. "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

If it was will alone.. no one would have found Christ. No man can come to me EXCEPT..