please help lil ol me who is kinda believing just in case out ):

[curlycurl]

Sooo, Hi! Im luna, I'm a 20yo dutch girl and I have been struggling with this for quite a long time and my troubles have been driving me insane the last few days so I thought it was good to reach out.
This is gonna be a long story and I'm gonna be very honest about everything and might even say some things people on here wont like, but there is no point in trying to sugarcoat stuff because if god is out here he knows the truth and my heart anyway.
I was raised slighty religious, my mom told me a few stories about god but I never went to church and knew almost nothing about the bible, I did remember most of my childhood my relationship with god was that i feared him alot, I remember having many bad intrusive thoughts about god and I thought he didn't like me. My dad is muslim but he never raised me as such. As I got older and reached my teen years I kinda naturally stopped believing, I guess it just didn't make sense to me. because I wasn't very religious anyway and because most people in my country don't believe, so for me that wasnt a huge development (more than half of people in the netherlands don't have a religion).

It wasn't till I was about 16 that a started to doubt, I remember having a scare about the world ending, and I started thinking: "what if there is a hell?", that lead me into one of the biggest depressions I ever had, I started to try believing and praying, but it wasnt easy for me, because I kind of did not believe, I still had the biggest part of myself that not did believe it and just had the concern of "even if their is a tiny chance of the christian god being real, it being real would mean eternal torture, so I should believe in that just in case. (like Pascal's wager)
I cried and begged alot those months, begging god to help me believe and help save me and my family, but I will admit that in my heart I did not want to believe, I didn't want any of it to be real, my want for salvation was out of a place of fear.
I am gonna be very very honest, when i say i truly hope there is no afterlife.
I say this for multiple reasons, first of being that I never minded the idea of nothing happening when we die, if anything, the nothingness seemed comforting to me.
Second of all the idea of people suffering in the afterlife was unbearable for me, I have family member who died of who I know didn't really believe, they were a bit spiritual at most, and i've had a friend commit suicide who wasnt religious. The thought of them having such a torture makes me wanna trow up, how can I even go about my day with the idea of that being a reality? I rather have nobody go anywere and it just being nothingness if that means people dont have to suffer.
But how do I even stop feeling that way? How can I get myself to believe when my brain doesnt allow me to? I will admit that this is all out of a place of fear and If christianity didn't have a hell i probably wouldnt even bother with it (or maybe the opposite because the concept of hell is my biggest problem with it). I feel like my fear is the thing keeping me around. Im not gonna lie, It makes me angry, Im thinking: "how can it be true loved if there is a treat, If its forced by fear? How is there really free wil if the other side is having the most excruciating pain for the rest of eternity. That doesn't feel like free will. I rather wanted to not be born if the case is, either live a christian life perfetly or suffer. It seemed cruel to me.

Then after reading more into christianity I discovered the passage matthew 12:31-32 about the unforgiveble sin, and because of my problem with intrusive thoughts, bad thoughts about the holy spirit started appearing in my head without me wanting me too. I didn't mean it, the things that popped into my head didnt even make sense, and I didnt even properly understand what it all meant. I did feel afwul about it. I felt like I comitted something and was doomed. I dont think i was saved at the time, or currently am, I really dont know, I mean, how can you be saved if you have the majority of yourself who doesnt even believe in god, or doesnt even want it to be real. Yet the idea that i was never able to come to god again even if i later changed my mind because i had those bad thoughts in my head, was horrifying.
A bit after that I started to doubt god alot more again, my two reasons at the time mostly being: 1, the fact that it seemed that almost every christian had a different understanding of certain scriptures, because if i for example had doubts about what a certain passage meant, and i tried to look online what other people thought, they all said something else and yet they all said god told them that was the truth, how can god tell everyone something else? that made me think, "why do people all have their own version of god?"'. Even on really important issues like if salvation can be lost, people didnt agree, yet they all said god told them.
Another reason that I was doubting was because it seemed liked the biggest reason someone is part of a certain religion is because they are born in a country were that religion is big and were raised that way, people in muslim countries are convinced their god is real because they were raised that way, and if someone who is christian in for example America, was born in Irak for example, they wouldve been muslim too. And once someone has been raised a certain religion, its hard to convince them of anything because they are hardened in their beliefs. I seemed weird to me that someone can pick the wrong religion and go to hell just because they were born in a certain country. I hear people say "well they have acces to christianity everywhere" but I think people underestimate how stuck people can get in their beliefs once theyve been raised to believe it their whole lives.
So those reasons, and some evolutionary beliefs I have, plus the fact that my brain just didnt allow me to not be skeptic and have many doubts, were reasons why is slowly started to fall back in not really worrying about it as much and believing less.(by the way with my reasons of not believing im not trying to judge people who believe or convince people to not believe, I'm just stating my own personal reasons.

After that period when I was 16, I mostly returned to my habits before, not completely though, I did pray or talk to god once everywhile and felt more in touch with him I think and wouldn't really called myself a athiest anymore as much, and i people asked me what I believed happened after we die, id say "I hope nothing". Plus my fear of hell and god and blasphemy the holy spirit has been more present ever since, If I for example were to listen to a podcast and someone in the podcast would make a joke regarding the holy spirit, I would freak out, and unfollow that podcast and never listen to it again, in the fear of that still supporting that person would be blasphemy of its own. And I'd still have intrusive bad thought. Which even though I moslty did not believe in a god, still scared me because I thought, "what if I wanna go back to christianity or at least take slow steps towards it, and I cant because I've done something that's unforgiveable?

The last week my fears started bubbling up alot more again, not sure why, probably because ive had many free days and alot of time to think. I was reading a fairytale book to my younger siblings, and christian story was in it, yet it was not out of the bible, it was made up, and the story mentioned the holy trinity, and I started thinking "isnt naming the holy trinity in a made up story like that blasphemy? So out of my panick i trew this whole (expessive) fairytail book in the trash, and from there on out i kinda went into a spiral of my old fears. This was the story by the way Our Lady's Child - Grimm .

Because of my anxiety coming back again I started getting the intrusive thoughts more again, very weird thoughts that make no sense, my brain wont stop, and the more I stress about them, the more they come, just like when you tell yourself, dont think about a pink elefant, you'll think about it.
And I truly am stressing about it, because I dont know if I'm truly commiting blasphemy against the holy spirit, or its my paranoia telling me. For example I tell my self for some reason, If you do this its blasphemy, even though that certain thing is not that at all, for example, doll making is my hobby, and i was planning to make this doll. But in the mist of it all, i told myself, making that doll is blasphemy against the holy spirit, which doesnt really make sense, maybe its a sin for some reason (wouldnt know which one), but I dont see how that can be blashemy. Yet my brain tells me that. I have those weird thoughts more often though, for example i tell my self if you dont wash your hands twice youll get really sick, or other habits that i need to do a certain amount of times or else i feel bad. Im pretty sure I have some OCD but never got diagnosed.
And yesterday I read the comments on a youtube video about someone talking about commiting blasphemy against the holy spirit, and someone in the comments descibed the blasphemous thoughts they had, and they were pretty awful and graphic, and now i cant stop having the things that comments said and even visuals popping into my head, and it feels awful. People say, if you are a believer and are saved, that means you havent commited it, because the fact that you feel quilty means the spirit is still working with you. But I dont know if I was even saved in the first place, or even received the holy spirit, if i did I wouldve known right? And how can I even be saved If i still mostly doubt if god exists and the biggest reason for wanting to believe still is out of fear? I dont have any ill will against God Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and the things I've said are not things I truly mean, they are just very weird random things that pop into my head. And I dont think ive seen and felt Gods light and power, or else I wouldnt be so doubtfull. I dont understand what any of it means by heart. Yet I feel fear.
And you might think, "but you barely believe right, why are you so worried about it?"
Well im gonna be really honest, even though I really cant get myself to believe completely, I am still thinking in my mind, "at one point of my life I have to get myself to believe, or else dying without believing is too big of a risk, and I should try to convince my family to believe at that point too".
I know that is bad, but I struggle, the only reason I want to believe is out of fear of hell, and I don't know how to not do that.
So the idea of my already burning that bridge by blasphemy and not being able to turn to god anymore is scary.
I feel pretty lost.
Im also scared that I'll harden my heart the longer I dont believe, but how will get get myself to believe? When I really dont want to live my life a christian, but just fear hell.

I know some people might be angry or wont like that I cant get myself to believe, but its hard, Imagine someone saying you have to believe in santa (im not saying God is like santa but I need a example), how can you tell yourself to believe when your commen sense doesnt allow you too.
Its really hard when you werent really raised to believe.

So yea, there goes my super long story, I hope I said nothing that angered or offended people.
Im not even sure what I want by typing all this, maybe to relieve stress by typing it all out, but also I'd like your insight, because I feel like i cant hande not having anybody to talk with about this anymore.

 

[Coleton Bryce Ritmanich]

I've read what you have to say. You are not forsaken. As a matter of fact, we can help you. The bible says faith comes by hearing the word of God. I was just invited to a bible study, and if you want I'll ask the person who invited me if I can invite you.

Fellowship is the way to go here, ever heard of the term "assimilation" if you surround yourself with good people, you will want to be good yourself. Though the opposite is true, like why people join gangs, or stuff.

Do you want to join us?

 

[anna ~ grace]

Welcome, friend. I also came to Christ after having converted to Islam. So, I hear you.

Many of us here suffer from invasive thoughts. It's really common. Don't worry. God won't hold you accountable for thoughts you don't want in your head.

This is a really good place. Feel free to ask us anything. We'll do our best to answer.

 

[46AND2]

Do you fear punishment from gods of other religions for not following them? I suspect not. So why is Christianity any different? It's what you have been exposed to. It's a microcosm of what you mentioned about people believing the religion of their country. You may not have been raised that way, but you have immersed yourself in its teachings, and it's what you are familiar with.

Which form of Christianity should you follow? There are denominations who don't even think hell exists, nor do they think the Bible teaches it.

I don't know if there is a god, but I'm pretty sure that if there is...nobody's got it right. And the vast majority (and perhaps all) of people who claim to be guided by god...aren't.

 

[Coleton Bryce Ritmanich]

Do you fear punishment from gods of other religions for not following them? I suspect not. So why is Christianity any different? It's what you have been exposed to. It's a microcosm of what you mentioned about people believing the religion of their country. You may not have been raised that way, but you have immersed yourself in its teachings, and it's what you are familiar with.

Which form of Christianity should you follow? There are denominations who don't even think hell exists, nor do they think the Bible teaches it.

I don't know if there is a god, but I'm pretty sure that if there is...nobody's got it right. And the vast majority (and perhaps all) of people who claim to be guided by god...aren't.

This is why I love Atheists, they also know how to comfort another person and are some of the nicest people in the world. Well, most of the ones on CF are.

 

[46AND2]

This is why I love Atheists, they also know how to comfort another person and are some of the nicest people in the world. Well, most of the ones on CF are.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not...but ultimately we did have the same intention, just from different angles; to try to help, in some small way, to alleviate her fear. I've been through what she's going through.

 

[Coleton Bryce Ritmanich]

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not...but ultimately we did have the same intention, just from different angles; to try to help, in some small way, to alleviate her fear. I've been through what she's going through.

Not being sarcastic at all. I'm brutally honest to a fault, it's what being born with Asperger's Syndrome will do to some people.

 

[ajcarey]

I appreciate your honesty and your willingness to think and consider such weighty subjects. You are on the right track in this and I hope you'll continue in this. Many will drown out reason and suppress evidence because they don't like where it's taking them and making them uncomfortable. I think you're brave to face your thoughts like this and come on here to try to find answers.

I think you understand why you haven't committed the unpardonable sin, so no need to say more there. The Bible speaks of different kinds of fear. Everyone should fear God because crossing Him and provoking Him causes one to reap His judgment. But those who are right with Him don't dread to meet Him because they are properly relating to Him already. To illustrate: Adam and Eve needed to fear God's warning in the garden and such a fear would never be unnecessary no matter how long they remained obedient. But when they didn't heed His warning and sinned they were afraid in His presence in the sense of dread because they had offended against Him. Right now you are dreading God because you know you're not ready to meet Him and you can't just dismiss the thought that you need to get right with Him (and again, I commend your honesty and bravery to face that thought right now). You know the Universe was created by a Superior being and we are not a product of chance. You know that Superior being is good, has expectations for you, and will hold you accountable based on His expectations. You know that gambling with your soul and facing an eternity in God's displeasure is something you cannot bear. Yet at the same time you are not really convinced of key things like His right to your worship, the wisdom of His requirements for you, and the appropriateness of hell for His enemies. But keep searching diligently and being honest with what you do know and you'll see the truth of these things clearly eventually. People tend to be so divided on Scripture interpretation for a few key reasons: 1) They have an agenda and they're not being honest. 2) There are principles for interpreting Scripture which they do not grasp. One example is how so many who claim to believe the Bible have views of salvation that don't even line up with the examples of salvation from the Bible! Corrupt Bible colleges and seminaries are major culprits as they train future Pastors and other leaders in errant doctrine- and these then pass that error on to those they influence. 3) They just don't study diligently or haven't had enough time to study in order to really get the big picture Scripture portrays and have the right perspective so they can approach each Scripture in light of that perspective. The fact is if you read the Bible with an unbiased mind in an honest search for answers and continue to do no matter how much this makes you uncomfortable and interferes with what you want in life, you will understand what you need to understand- and I hope you don't shrink back but rather trust that the God who authored this perfect book is wise enough, strong enough, and good enough to know what is best for you and won't let down and fail to appropriately reward those who choose to serve Him and follow the knowledge of Him wherever that should take them (see Psalm 23).

I made a post a day or two in another thread that asked something like "What reasons are there to follow God besides fear of hell?" and I'll post my answer in that thread below because I think it is very relevant to your thoughts and questions that you posted here in this thread.

It's proper to consider that God doesn't just arbitrarily say to follow Him or go to hell. There are reasons and there is an overall logic to why hell is right for those who won't follow Him and why God cannot righteously allow anyone into heaven otherwise. He Created all things, we owe our very existence to Him, His ways are inherently good/right/true/holy and going contrary to Him is inherently dark/evil/unrighteous/unholy; He has also labored and spent Himself through His Son to reconcile us to Him and restore us into His kingdom in a way that satisfies His Justice and upholds His law by the shedding of His blood for our redemption. We should follow Him in light of WHY He had to labor to redeem us and in light He has done in following through with His plan of redemption to bring us to Himself and save us from our sins. What else is there to live for? How shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation? Is not life vain otherwise (the point of the book of Ecclesiastes, by the way)? Where are His enemies who refused to repent and follow him- have they not died in their sins and not only have hell to look forward to, but also Judgment Day when what God did for them and God offered them will be laid out so that they will be proven to be ungrateful rebels who did not appreciate this enough to repent, live for Him, and fall in line with His purposes? What reasons could any person think of not to follow Him that will hold up in court when all the evidence is laid out and considered honestly? Who could ever provide a righteous excuse that their Creator was unreasonable to demand that they be subject to Him and/or claim that He did not have their best interests in His heart in demanding this? Absolutely no one. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness." (Hebrews 12:9-10)

 

[Coleton Bryce Ritmanich]

I appreciate your honesty and your willingness to think and consider such weighty subjects. You are on the right track in this and I hope you'll continue in this. Many will drown out reason and suppress evidence because they don't like where it's taking them and making them uncomfortable. I think you're brave to face your thoughts like this and come on here to try to find answers.

I think you understand why you haven't committed the unpardonable sin, so no need to say more there. The Bible speaks of different kinds of fear. Everyone should fear God because crossing Him and provoking Him causes one to reap His judgment. But those who are right with Him don't dread to meet Him because they are properly relating to Him already. To illustrate: Adam and Eve needed to fear God's warning in the garden and such a fear would never be unnecessary no matter how long they remained obedient. But when they didn't heed His warning and sinned they were afraid in His presence in the sense of dread because they had offended against Him. Right now you are dreading God because you know you're not ready to meet Him and you can't just dismiss the thought that you need to get right with Him (and again, I commend your honesty and bravery to face that thought right now). You know the Universe was created by a Superior being and we are not a product of chance. You know that Superior being is good, has expectations for you, and will hold you accountable based on His expectations. You know that gambling with your soul and facing an eternity in God's displeasure is something you cannot bear. Yet at the same time you are not really convinced of key things like His right to your worship, the wisdom of His requirements for you, and the appropriateness of hell for His enemies. But keep searching diligently and being honest with what you do know and you'll see the truth of these things clearly eventually. People tend to be so divided on Scripture interpretation for a few key reasons: 1) They have an agenda and they're not being honest. 2) There are principles for interpreting Scripture which they do not grasp. One example is how so many who claim to believe the Bible have views of salvation that don't even line up with the examples of salvation from the Bible! Corrupt Bible colleges and seminaries are major culprits as they train future Pastors and other leaders in errant doctrine- and these then pass that error on to those they influence. 3) They just don't study diligently or haven't had enough time to study in order to really get the big picture Scripture portrays and have the right perspective so they can approach each Scripture in light of that perspective. The fact is if you read the Bible with an unbiased mind in an honest search for answers and continue to do no matter how much this makes you uncomfortable and interferes with what you want in life, you will understand what you need to understand- and I hope you don't shrink back but rather trust that the God who authored this perfect book is wise enough, strong enough, and good enough to know what is best for you and won't let down and fail to appropriately reward those who choose to serve Him and follow the knowledge of Him wherever that should take them (see Psalm 23).

I made a post a day or two in another thread that asked something like "What reasons are there to follow God besides fear of hell?" and I'll post my answer in that thread below because I think it is very relevant to your thoughts and questions that you posted here in this thread.

It's proper to consider that God doesn't just arbitrarily say to follow Him or go to hell. There are reasons and there is an overall logic to why hell is right for those who won't follow Him and why God cannot righteously allow anyone into heaven otherwise. He Created all things, we owe our very existence to Him, His ways are inherently good/right/true/holy and going contrary to Him is inherently dark/evil/unrighteous/unholy; He has also labored and spent Himself through His Son to reconcile us to Him and restore us into His kingdom in a way that satisfies His Justice and upholds His law by the shedding of His blood for our redemption. We should follow Him in light of WHY He had to labor to redeem us and in light He has done in following through with His plan of redemption to bring us to Himself and save us from our sins. What else is there to live for? How shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation? Is not life vain otherwise (the point of the book of Ecclesiastes, by the way)? Where are His enemies who refused to repent and follow him- have they not died in their sins and not only have hell to look forward to, but also Judgment Day when what God did for them and God offered them will be laid out so that they will be proven to be ungrateful rebels who did not appreciate this enough to repent, live for Him, and fall in line with His purposes? What reasons could any person think of not to follow Him that will hold up in court when all the evidence is laid out and considered honestly? Who could ever provide a righteous excuse that their Creator was unreasonable to demand that they be subject to Him and/or claim that He did not have their best interests in His heart in demanding this? Absolutely no one. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness." (Hebrews 12:9-10)

Would rate this "Agree" but I'm still trying to read it. I can only take so many page length Posts at a time.

 

[Coleton Bryce Ritmanich]

Would rate this "Agree" but I'm still trying to read it. I can only take so many page length Posts at a time.

Now that I've read it, mostly I see it is a Winner!

 

[Sabertooth]

Hello & welcome @curlycurl .

THIS PAGE is how I found out about Jesus.

 

[46AND2]

I appreciate your honesty and your willingness to think and consider such weighty subjects. You are on the right track in this and I hope you'll continue in this. Many will drown out reason and suppress evidence because they don't like where it's taking them and making them uncomfortable. I think you're brave to face your thoughts like this and come on here to try to find answers.

I think you understand why you haven't committed the unpardonable sin, so no need to say more there. The Bible speaks of different kinds of fear. Everyone should fear God because crossing Him and provoking Him causes one to reap His judgment. But those who are right with Him don't dread to meet Him because they are properly relating to Him already. To illustrate: Adam and Eve needed to fear God's warning in the garden and such a fear would never be unnecessary no matter how long they remained obedient. But when they didn't heed His warning and sinned they were afraid in His presence in the sense of dread because they had offended against Him. Right now you are dreading God because you know you're not ready to meet Him and you can't just dismiss the thought that you need to get right with Him (and again, I commend your honesty and bravery to face that thought right now). You know the Universe was created by a Superior being and we are not a product of chance. You know that Superior being is good, has expectations for you, and will hold you accountable based on His expectations. You know that gambling with your soul and facing an eternity in God's displeasure is something you cannot bear. Yet at the same time you are not really convinced of key things like His right to your worship, the wisdom of His requirements for you, and the appropriateness of hell for His enemies. But keep searching diligently and being honest with what you do know and you'll see the truth of these things clearly eventually. People tend to be so divided on Scripture interpretation for a few key reasons: 1) They have an agenda and they're not being honest. 2) There are principles for interpreting Scripture which they do not grasp. One example is how so many who claim to believe the Bible have views of salvation that don't even line up with the examples of salvation from the Bible! Corrupt Bible colleges and seminaries are major culprits as they train future Pastors and other leaders in errant doctrine- and these then pass that error on to those they influence. 3) They just don't study diligently or haven't had enough time to study in order to really get the big picture Scripture portrays and have the right perspective so they can approach each Scripture in light of that perspective. The fact is if you read the Bible with an unbiased mind in an honest search for answers and continue to do no matter how much this makes you uncomfortable and interferes with what you want in life, you will understand what you need to understand- and I hope you don't shrink back but rather trust that the God who authored this perfect book is wise enough, strong enough, and good enough to know what is best for you and won't let down and fail to appropriately reward those who choose to serve Him and follow the knowledge of Him wherever that should take them (see Psalm 23).

I made a post a day or two in another thread that asked something like "What reasons are there to follow God besides fear of hell?" and I'll post my answer in that thread below because I think it is very relevant to your thoughts and questions that you posted here in this thread.

It's proper to consider that God doesn't just arbitrarily say to follow Him or go to hell. There are reasons and there is an overall logic to why hell is right for those who won't follow Him and why God cannot righteously allow anyone into heaven otherwise. He Created all things, we owe our very existence to Him, His ways are inherently good/right/true/holy and going contrary to Him is inherently dark/evil/unrighteous/unholy; He has also labored and spent Himself through His Son to reconcile us to Him and restore us into His kingdom in a way that satisfies His Justice and upholds His law by the shedding of His blood for our redemption. We should follow Him in light of WHY He had to labor to redeem us and in light He has done in following through with His plan of redemption to bring us to Himself and save us from our sins. What else is there to live for? How shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation? Is not life vain otherwise (the point of the book of Ecclesiastes, by the way)? Where are His enemies who refused to repent and follow him- have they not died in their sins and not only have hell to look forward to, but also Judgment Day when what God did for them and God offered them will be laid out so that they will be proven to be ungrateful rebels who did not appreciate this enough to repent, live for Him, and fall in line with His purposes? What reasons could any person think of not to follow Him that will hold up in court when all the evidence is laid out and considered honestly? Who could ever provide a righteous excuse that their Creator was unreasonable to demand that they be subject to Him and/or claim that He did not have their best interests in His heart in demanding this? Absolutely no one. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness." (Hebrews 12:9-10)

After reading this thread, and your post, I've had a thought that I hadn't considered before, and wonder how you might respond...

So, let's say you get to heaven, and everything you believe about god and his plan are true. I'm assuming (please correct me if I am wrong) that you subscribe to a belief that there is no sadness, or anger or any other negative emotion in heaven.

Let's also assume (hypothetically, if necessary) that you have friends and/or family on earth who you care deeply about, but know that they are not saved and are, or will be, in hell. How do you reconcile the idea that you will no longer (being in heaven) feel sorrow for those loved ones? Indeed, how can you still feel love for them, if you cannot feel sorrow for them?

And finally, does god feel sorrow for them?

 

[ajcarey]

It is hard to say for sure, because (obviously) I'm not in heaven yet and I've never been able to converse with a person who has been there. What I know for sure is that God generally loves and cares deeply about very person- but He loves His own Law and the purity of His own kingdom more (or else He would cease to be God and cease to be holy). He sees it as a tragedy when someone ends up lost, yet He is vindicated in a lost person's condemnation because such a person had opposed His authority in their life on earth to the end- and God's vindication is something that one who is in heaven would rejoice over (they wouldn't be in heaven otherwise- only those who loved and vindicated God's law and God's ways in their own lives on earth will be in heaven). So if one in heaven had sorrow for a lost loved one, there could be and would be a simultaneous or near simultaneous rejoicing in the vindication of the God they loved more- after all, they wouldn't be in heaven if they didn't even while on earth love God more than their loved ones here (Luke 14:25-27, Matthew 10:37-39, etc). So with all that in mind, it could be possible in heaven to have sorrow over the damnation of those you loved on earth while also having a greater joy which overwhelmed and prevailed against that sorrow so that you could not properly be said to be in a sorrowful state. Complex yes, but not contradictory when it's considered that love has priorities and the priorities of the righteous will be straight. Obviously the true gospel has to do with reconciling sinners to God and making them fit for heaven in a way that upholds God's authority and the honor of His Law.

 

[Norbert L]

if i for example had doubts about what a certain passage meant, and i tried to look online what other people thought, they all said something else and yet they all said god told them that was the truth, how can god tell everyone something else? that made me think, "why do people all have their own version of god?"'

God doesn't tell everyone something else, people read the Bible and try to understand it to the best of their ability. However we have a tendency to jump to conclusions that may not have all the information and so we put our own words in God's mouth to make sense of the world. That is why there are versions about God. God has very little to do with it.

In reality God is far more hands off about our spiritual development than we would want. It's a life long process.

 

[com7fy8]

Welcome to Christian Forums God bless you Now you have us praying for you

I did remember most of my childhood my relationship with god was that i feared him alot, I remember having many bad intrusive thoughts about god and I thought he didn't like me.

Well, Jesus loves you and cares about you; so Jesus suffered like He did and died for you, so you may have eternal life of love with God. And we can share this love with God, now >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

If you want to talk about this more, please put your introduction in the "Christian Advice" place in Christian Forums. There are kind and caring and wise people there who might not be reading in this "Introduce Yourself" place. So, please visit us there and put your whole introductory post there so we can share with you and do what God blesses us to do to bless you.

I started to try believing and praying, but it wasnt easy for me, because I kind of did not believe, I still had the biggest part of myself that not did believe it and just had the concern of "even if their is a tiny chance of the christian god being real, it being real would mean eternal torture, so I should believe in that just in case. (like Pascal's wager)

Belief is not only accepting ideas of Christianity. But if you really believe someone, you trust him or her and act on what the person says, and you follow the person's good example.

my want for salvation was out of a place of fear.

So, you can be encouraged that you understand how fear is not the right motivation for trusting in Jesus. It is needed that a person comes to trust Jesus, and so the person seeks to be submissive to God and have peace with God and obey Him in His love . . . better and better as our Heavenly Father corrects us.

The thought of them having such a torture makes me wanna trow up,

It is good to feel for other people. Jesus cares for any and all people; so Jesus did what can be done > Jesus suffered and died like He did, with hope for any evil person. So, it is good to have hope for yourself, plus for any and all people.

How can I get myself to believe when my brain doesnt allow me to?

Your brain is physical. Your heart for believing is spiritual. Consider this.

If christianity didn't have a hell i probably wouldnt even bother with it

Hell is practical, not meant as a threat. When Jesus suffered, "He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously" (in 1 Peter 2:23).

If christianity didn't have a hell i probably wouldnt even bother with it (or maybe the opposite because the concept of hell is my biggest problem with it). I feel like my fear is the thing keeping me around.

But hell is practical, for keeping evil away from God's people. But there are people who keep evil things in themselves; and so they could go where their evil stuff will go. This earth is a temporary holding place for Satan and evil. So, we need to get rid of the nasty evil spirit stuff which is going to hell, and find out how to love >

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)

"how can it be true loved if there is a treat, If its forced by fear?

This is correct; therefore, God does not mean hell as a threat. It is a reality very practical for taking care of Satan and evil people. Satan and evil people are so stubborn, that fire is needed to control them and keep them where they are going. But yes it is a punishment, too.

So, it is wise to seek real correction now, that only God can do in us.

How is there really free wil if the other side is having the most excruciating pain for the rest of eternity. That doesn't feel like free will.

You can start a discussion about this, in the "General Theology" place.

1, the fact that it seemed that almost every christian had a different understanding of certain scriptures,

We must have free will, then, mustn't we? You can start a discussion about this in "General Theology".

it seemed liked the biggest reason someone is part of a certain religion is because they are born in a country were that religion is big and were raised that way,

So, you need to make sure your belief comes with trusting and obeying Jesus, and make sure your belief is not only a cultural conformity thing. So, be glad you are aware of this issue.

And once someone has been raised a certain religion, its hard to convince them of anything because they are hardened in their beliefs.

In sin, any person is stubborn, not only ones of certain religious culture areas. Look how stubborn ones can be about quitting smoking, for just one example.

I seemed weird to me that someone can pick the wrong religion and go to hell just because they were born in a certain country.

Like you said you know about yourself > God knows each person's heart. Among other things, God knows what each person would do if he or she were told about Jesus. Also, unforgiveness can keep a person from being forgiven; even if ones have not heard of Jesus, they can be deeply ruined from love, and from Jesus, because of their unforgiveness. So, even if ones have not heard the Gospel, this does not automatically mean they are innocent.

And . . . by the way > Adam and Eve fell and have passed on sin to all people. So, we all were born in sin, slaves of Satan. So, what does this mean has happened to any free will which humans are supposed to have? People are slaves to Satan because of "fear of death" > you might read and feed on Hebrews 2:14-15 > how can someone's will be truly free while the person is in slavery to fear????

evolutionary beliefs I have

You said God is the One who knows, right? People born in sin can fool their own selves and not know the difference. So, we need to get wise to and humble about how we can fool our own selves. We can tend and pick and choose what fits with what we want to be true.

Have you noticed how worldly people are into comparison and competition? And in evolution there is survival of the fittest, versus communication and compassion. The idea of survival of the fittest, I see, fits with how worldly people tend to be > so they can tend to accept an idea that those superior compete against the weaker. But in Jesus we love and care for all people; we seek to minister for others to be blessed like we are.

plus the fact that my brain just didnt allow me to not be skeptic and have many doubts,

We have our spiritual level of our minds which are in connection with God and love, or with "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." (in Ephesians 1:12) The mind of Jesus has us busy thinking about how to please God and creatively love any and all people.

Plus my fear of hell and god and blasphemy the holy spirit has been more present ever since,

All right, so you know fear is wrong.

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

If I for example were to listen to a podcast and someone in the podcast would make a joke regarding the holy spirit, I would freak out, and unfollow that podcast and never listen to it again, in the fear of that still supporting that person would be blasphemy of its own.

But we need to give our attention to submitting to God in His peace and seeking His real correction.

I thought, "what if I wanna go back to christianity or at least take slow steps towards it, and I cant because I've done something that's unforgiveable?

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

God is pleased with the "gentle and quiet spirit" of His love in us. This is included in basic Christianity. God is not noisy with confusion and fear and dominating and dictatorial drives for pleasure and excitement and workaholic stuff. But Jesus gives us "rest for your souls." (n Matthew 11:28-30)

God is quiet, then, in His love. So, we can personally share with God, by being quiet and submissive to Him, in His love. This is basic to Christianity, I would say. And you can discover the beliefs which come with this. People's belief arguing can be a trick to keep our attention away from personally seeking God in the quiet rest of His love which, by the way, has us all-loving . . . of any and all people.

For example I tell my self for some reason, If you do this its blasphemy, even though that certain thing is not that at all, for example, doll making is my hobby, and i was planning to make this doll. But in the mist of it all, i told myself, making that doll is blasphemy against the holy spirit, which doesnt really make sense, maybe its a sin for some reason (wouldnt know which one), but I dont see how that can be blashemy. Yet my brain tells me that.

All right . . . so you are learning this. This can be good.

someone in the comments descibed the blasphemous thoughts they had, and they were pretty awful and graphic, and now i cant stop having the things that comments said and even visuals popping into my head, and it feels awful.

So, it is wise to give your attention to the Bible and sharing with the people who give you good and caring and wholesome things.

People say, if you are a believer and are saved, that means you havent commited it, because the fact that you feel quilty means the spirit is still working with you.

This can be what caring and good examples will say to you, with hope for you > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7).

People also say blasphemy against the holy spirit is saying the spirit is of the devil even after you've seen the powers and seen the light.

I would say this fits with what I have read in the Bible. Possibly, then, someone who has said this can also say things to help you trust in Christ and learn how to walk with Him in His love and discover how to share as family with us

 

[curlycurl]

I've read what you have to say. You are not forsaken. As a matter of fact, we can help you. The bible says faith comes by hearing the word of God. I was just invited to a bible study, and if you want I'll ask the person who invited me if I can invite you.

Fellowship is the way to go here, ever heard of the term "assimilation" if you surround yourself with good people, you will want to be good yourself. Though the opposite is true, like why people join gangs, or stuff.

Do you want to join us?

Thank you for your nice words Coleton, I appreciate it.
Is it a online bible study? Im not too sure how all that stuff works.
I will have to be honest with you and admit I struggle with getting more into christianity.
Because it isnt out of a place of really wanting to know more and wanting to get close.
My motivation is till out of fear, and the feeling of "I have to do this just in case".
I don't think I actually want to live my life as a christian, I feel like i'd have to give up on everything and change my life.
At least half my friends are gay and transgender, would I have to cut them out of my life, but they are so dear to me?
Isnt everything that isnt god honoring a sin? That means I have to drop out of school, never listen to music thats not christian music anymore, no more watching movies, no more hobbies, not drawing and painting anymore (which is a huge passion in my life). Just thinking about this makes me depressed beyond belief, it makes me feel no happyness to be alive.
This is the current thought in my head: "I dont want to change my life and lose my passions live a depressing life that, even though I kind of have at least 80% of myself not even believing something exists, all just in case if the christian God exists, its saver to take that route.
I hope this doesnt make me sound like a bad or ungratefull person, these are just my current feelings ):

 

[curlycurl]

Welcome, friend. I also came to Christ after having converted to Islam. So, I hear you.

Many of us here suffer from invasive thoughts. It's really common. Don't worry. God won't hold you accountable for thoughts you don't want in your head.

This is a really good place. Feel free to ask us anything. We'll do our best to answer.

Thank you for your kind words Gracia, it really helps when I'm in such a anxious state <3

 

[curlycurl]

Do you fear punishment from gods of other religions for not following them? I suspect not. So why is Christianity any different? It's what you have been exposed to. It's a microcosm of what you mentioned about people believing the religion of their country. You may not have been raised that way, but you have immersed yourself in its teachings, and it's what you are familiar with.

Which form of Christianity should you follow? There are denominations who don't even think hell exists, nor do they think the Bible teaches it.

I don't know if there is a god, but I'm pretty sure that if there is...nobody's got it right. And the vast majority (and perhaps all) of people who claim to be guided by god...aren't.

hi! I will admit up until this point I thought that christianity was the only religion with a eternal hell, but I googled it as saw muslim hell is also eternal, whoopsie, I thought is all cases you had to be there till you sat out your punishment, and then you could go to heaven, but apparently thats only in some cases.

Before I found that out today, I remember thinking, "well christianity is the only religion with a eternal hell, so its the savest choice to believe in that one"
Even now, if i had to choice between believing Islam or Christianity, I'd choice christianity, and i'd say its because that feels more right to me, but the again, i'm sure a muslim would say the same thing for Islam. Its weird how we can't see certain things from a complete objective standpoint, because we cant remove our biases based on what we've been tought.

I do think pascals wager makes sense in ways, but the biggest two problems with it being: what religion to choose, and it's not like you can decide and be like "jup, I'm just completely gonna believe in this now" Plus living a certain life "just in case", doesnt seem like a life to me.

Im wondering, because you said that you once were in the same place as me, I was wondering how you came to the point where you are now? Do you feel no fears or doubts? (If you dont mind answering of course )

 

[BNR32FAN]

Welcome, friend. I also came to Christ after having converted to Islam. So, I hear you.

Many of us here suffer from invasive thoughts. It's really common. Don't worry. God won't hold you accountable for thoughts you don't want in your head.

This is a really good place. Feel free to ask us anything. We'll do our best to answer.

Amen we all suffer from terrible thoughts, these are completely normal even for the best of Christians. It’s whether or not we indulge in them or act on them that will determine if it is a sin or not. It sounds like a classic case of the evil one attacking a person who is coming to Christ. My advice would be to read the Bible, particularly the New Testament. There’s power in the Word!!

 

[curlycurl]

I appreciate your honesty and your willingness to think and consider such weighty subjects. You are on the right track in this and I hope you'll continue in this. Many will drown out reason and suppress evidence because they don't like where it's taking them and making them uncomfortable. I think you're brave to face your thoughts like this and come on here to try to find answers.

I think you understand why you haven't committed the unpardonable sin, so no need to say more there. The Bible speaks of different kinds of fear. Everyone should fear God because crossing Him and provoking Him causes one to reap His judgment. But those who are right with Him don't dread to meet Him because they are properly relating to Him already. To illustrate: Adam and Eve needed to fear God's warning in the garden and such a fear would never be unnecessary no matter how long they remained obedient. But when they didn't heed His warning and sinned they were afraid in His presence in the sense of dread because they had offended against Him. Right now you are dreading God because you know you're not ready to meet Him and you can't just dismiss the thought that you need to get right with Him (and again, I commend your honesty and bravery to face that thought right now). You know the Universe was created by a Superior being and we are not a product of chance. You know that Superior being is good, has expectations for you, and will hold you accountable based on His expectations. You know that gambling with your soul and facing an eternity in God's displeasure is something you cannot bear. Yet at the same time you are not really convinced of key things like His right to your worship, the wisdom of His requirements for you, and the appropriateness of hell for His enemies. But keep searching diligently and being honest with what you do know and you'll see the truth of these things clearly eventually. People tend to be so divided on Scripture interpretation for a few key reasons: 1) They have an agenda and they're not being honest. 2) There are principles for interpreting Scripture which they do not grasp. One example is how so many who claim to believe the Bible have views of salvation that don't even line up with the examples of salvation from the Bible! Corrupt Bible colleges and seminaries are major culprits as they train future Pastors and other leaders in errant doctrine- and these then pass that error on to those they influence. 3) They just don't study diligently or haven't had enough time to study in order to really get the big picture Scripture portrays and have the right perspective so they can approach each Scripture in light of that perspective. The fact is if you read the Bible with an unbiased mind in an honest search for answers and continue to do no matter how much this makes you uncomfortable and interferes with what you want in life, you will understand what you need to understand- and I hope you don't shrink back but rather trust that the God who authored this perfect book is wise enough, strong enough, and good enough to know what is best for you and won't let down and fail to appropriately reward those who choose to serve Him and follow the knowledge of Him wherever that should take them (see Psalm 23).

I made a post a day or two in another thread that asked something like "What reasons are there to follow God besides fear of hell?" and I'll post my answer in that thread below because I think it is very relevant to your thoughts and questions that you posted here in this thread.

It's proper to consider that God doesn't just arbitrarily say to follow Him or go to hell. There are reasons and there is an overall logic to why hell is right for those who won't follow Him and why God cannot righteously allow anyone into heaven otherwise. He Created all things, we owe our very existence to Him, His ways are inherently good/right/true/holy and going contrary to Him is inherently dark/evil/unrighteous/unholy; He has also labored and spent Himself through His Son to reconcile us to Him and restore us into His kingdom in a way that satisfies His Justice and upholds His law by the shedding of His blood for our redemption. We should follow Him in light of WHY He had to labor to redeem us and in light He has done in following through with His plan of redemption to bring us to Himself and save us from our sins. What else is there to live for? How shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation? Is not life vain otherwise (the point of the book of Ecclesiastes, by the way)? Where are His enemies who refused to repent and follow him- have they not died in their sins and not only have hell to look forward to, but also Judgment Day when what God did for them and God offered them will be laid out so that they will be proven to be ungrateful rebels who did not appreciate this enough to repent, live for Him, and fall in line with His purposes? What reasons could any person think of not to follow Him that will hold up in court when all the evidence is laid out and considered honestly? Who could ever provide a righteous excuse that their Creator was unreasonable to demand that they be subject to Him and/or claim that He did not have their best interests in His heart in demanding this? Absolutely no one. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness." (Hebrews 12:9-10)

Thank you for your reply, and thank you for saying that you appriciate my honeslty, I was a bit afraid people were gonna be angry with me for questioning, but im happy that wasnt the case.

You said I was dreading God because I'm not ready to meet him, and i'd say thats true.
But then again, when will I be ready? I feel like im procrastinating giving my self up to God (not sure if thats the right way to say it), because I dont want to. How can do that when the only reason for even seeking God in my case was out of fear of the consequences if I dont. I know that many Christians come to god purely out of a place of wanting him in their life and they dont even think about hell. But unfortunately thats not the case with me at the moment. I strongly want to keep living the way I always have, and I think that maybe if God told me, you can either live a life however you want, and your sould will cease to exist (so no hell, just dissapearing), or you could live a life purely decidated to God, and go to heaven. I might say that i'd rather just cease to exist.
But maybe thats just because I personally cant imagine a future I want for myself as a christian, which could be because I really dont have anyone I my life that I know that lived a dedicated christian lifestyle.

You say there are more reasons for Christians to believe in god than just fearing hell, and I can see that that is the case for many.
But how can I get myself to be like that? I feel if hell wasnt a part of religion, i'd propably run away from religion as fast as I could.
For me its really the only reason, im sorry to say that, but its true.
And im not too sure what I can do about that.
Right now I'm in a struggle to get myself to believe, with my only motivation being fear.

Also you gave me a few reasons to why people could interpret certain criptures differently, which I can understand.
But I still struggle with that idea. Its not just preachers Im talking about, but also just people on the internet, people on blogs and youtube. All saying they are certain of cetrain things and saying they had gods voice tell them, but yet they dont think the same. Many of those people I truly think they believe what they say, but how can what they think God tells them be wrong? Its very confusing to me. I can see how they can interpret things differently by simply reading it in different context, but when they truly seem to believe it in their heart, its different that just reading it different it seems like.

Thanks again!