Do we have to keep all the New Testament commands?

Strong in Him

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In what way do you feel I am trying to exploit you? My aim and purpose is to build up, encourage and edify people. If there is anyone here tearing people down it is you.

I didn't say anything at all about you exploiting me.
I was pointing out that many cults have started because people have visions or "words" which they claim are from God, but which are, in fact, not taught in, or backed up by the Bible.

This is a fact.
I did NOT say that that is what you are doing. I said it to act as a warning; if a teaching or doctrine is not Scriptural, it is unlikely to be from God, since he does not contradict his word.

If you want to debate this further, it might be good to start another thread, since we are taking this one off topic. If you do that, I will discuss the issue further with you.
But for now, there is nothing more to say. I asked you to provide Scriptural evidence for your teaching that St Paul, and others, may contact us to have nice, theological conversations, and you can't.
So there's nothing more to say.
 
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Strong in Him

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You are attacking what I am saying and trying to falsify what I am saying. Yet you have produced NOTHING to back up your claims. Zip, zero, zilch, nothing. IF what I am saying is NOT true then it should be VERY easy for you to prove me wrong. Show me what you have, produce your evidence, show me your scriptures that contradict what I am saying.

What you have said about speaking to St Paul and there being a library in heaven, accessed by angels are NOT Scriptural; end of.
I can't show you what isn't in Scripture - neither can you, which is why you have not been able to give the evidence I asked for.
I can PROVE that it isn't in Scripture - the Bible is freely available; read it. Show me where I'm wrong.

This conversation is going nowhere; have fun.
 
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Strong in Him

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According to the rules of this section, I cannot answer such wrong and bizarre posts in this thread , the posts that look like they are only meant to provoke people to error.

I'm not trying to provoke anyone to error; I'm asking if by "God's commandments", you mean all the OT laws as well? If so, then how do you answer what Hebrews says about the law being a shadow, and Jesus' words that he has fulfilled the law?

There have been dozens of threads on these forums about the need for Gentiles to keep Jewish law that Jesus has fulfilled. I'm not the first person to ask this.
But if you say that I am wrong, yet don't want to correct me; so be it.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Doesn't it all boil down to two? Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. Pretty simple to say, hard as heck to do.
Yes but what did Moses say? "Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength." (Deu 6:5) Jesus added to what Moses said. He added the word MIND. Which KJV also translates imagination & understanding.

It is easy to love God with our heart, soul & strength. The problem is when the mind becomes involved.
 
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joshua 1 9

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NOT Scriptural; end of.
Show me your evidence. IF you are going to accuse me then back that up with evidence. I have given you scripture after scripture and you have given me nothing. I am doing a bible study with you and all you are contributing to the conversation are opinions and false accusations.

Matthew 5 "10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets before you."

Jesus is clearly saying just as the prosecuted the prophets then today people with the gift of prophesy are going to be persecuted. Just as Paul talks about "false brothern".
 
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joshua 1 9

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I can't show you what isn't in Scripture
YOU can show me what contradicts the Bible and so far you have failed to do that. You have produced NO scriptures to back up your claims.
 
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joshua 1 9

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What you have said about speaking to St Paul
I had a vision. Just because you never had a vision does not mean other people do not have them. I just do not understand why you claim you are a christian yet you persecute Christians and Christianity.
 
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Strong in Him

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I had a vision. Just because you never had a vision does not mean other people do not have them. I just do not understand why you claim you are a christian yet you persecute Christians and Christianity.

Asking you to provide Scripture to prove your teachings is by no means the same as persecuting Christians.
You have no idea whether I had ever had a vision or not.
You criticise me for making personal comments; what do you think those are?
 
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joshua 1 9

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Asking you to provide Scripture
No I am asking YOU to provide scripture and you refuse to do that. You are like a broken record that is stuck on the same track, playing it over and over again. Do you have anything new to add to this conversation or are you going to continue to chase your tail?
 
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bekkilyn

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No I am asking YOU to provide scripture and you refuse to do that. You are like a broken record that is stuck on the same track, playing it over and over again. Do you have anything new to add to this conversation or are you going to continue to chase your tail?

How is she supposed to provide scripture for something that's not there? If you are claiming you are having a legitimate scriptural experience, then there should be scripture that backs up your claims. All she is asking is for you to provide that scripture that shows that your experience was indeed scriptural. If you cannot provide such scripture, then your experience would obviously have no scriptural support.

Now you may not care if your experience wasn't scriptural, but if you are going to convince *Christians* that you were talking to the Apostle Paul vs. some other spirit, perhaps attempting to deceive you into believing it was Paul, and angelic libraries, etc. then you are simply going to need to provide the scripture since you are the person making the claim.

The people questioning you can't provide anything because for one, they aren't making the claim, and for two, they don't know where to find it in the bible.
 
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Strong in Him

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How is she supposed to provide scripture for something that's not there? If you are claiming you are having a legitimate scriptural experience, then there should be scripture that backs up your claims. All she is asking is for you to provide that scripture that shows that your experience was indeed scriptural.

Thank you. :)
 
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Strong in Him

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No I am asking YOU to provide scripture and you refuse to do that. You are like a broken record that is stuck on the same track, playing it over and over again. Do you have anything new to add to this conversation or are you going to continue to chase your tail?

I wasn't going to do his, but I will just reply to clarify things, then I'm out of here.

Many posts ago, you said:

I have personally had a conversation with Paul about this. He is amazed that we do not live right before God. He is adamant in that we should live a life free from sin. Under the law in the Old Testament people were to be good. Now Paul tells us we are to be right before God. This was the conversation I had with him

I questioned how you could make contact with Paul and talk to him about the state of the church. You replied that he contacted you, in a vision, and we had a conversation about that.
I do not doubt that you had a vision; some people do. I was questioning that Paul needed to know about the state of the church today, contacted you and asked you about it.
I asked you to provide Scripture which shows that dead saints can contact us, talk to us and teach us after they have died.
I do not believe that you ever answered that and provided the Scripture I asked for.

Later on, you said;

There is a library in Heaven that contains all wisdom, knowledge and understanding. The angels take care of the library. So your angel here on earth can go to the library in Heaven and research anything you want to know. So we have access to all wisdom, knowledge and understanding. If people do not know how to work with their angel then it may take a while for them to assimilate this understanding.

I asked you to provide Scripture to prove this.
You quoted verses from Revelation which talk about the book of life - but nothing about a library which contains all wisdom and knowledge and which is looked after by angels. I told you that Scripture says that God gives wisdom to anyone who asks him, James 1:5 - as he did to Solomon, 1 Kings 3:9-12.

All I have asked is that you provide Scripture which says,
a) that St Paul, or anyone else, would make contact with us after he had died.
b) that there is a library in heaven which contains wisdom, is looked after by angels and to which my angel can go to find out anything I want to know.

I am saying that these two statements of yours are not Scriptural. If they ARE, show me and prove me wrong. That's all I wanted to know - where are these two ideas taught in Scripture? I do not have to provide Scripture to prove what I am asking; the proof will be when you read the Bible and can't find them.
I have provided Scripture which says that wisdom comes from God who will give it to us if we ask. I have given other Scriptures too.

I am not doubting you have had a vision, or time of blessing by God, or anything else; I just want to know where those 2 things you have said are in the Bible.

Even though you have implied that I am dead, ask why I call myself a Christian and persecute other Christians, and have said I am a stuck record; I do wish you God's blessings and peace in your Christian life.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Yes but what did Moses say? "Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength." (Deu 6:5) Jesus added to what Moses said. He added the word MIND. Which KJV also translates imagination & understanding.

It is easy to love God with our heart, soul & strength. The problem is when the mind becomes involved.
I disagree that it's easy. My wife's having a hard time right now because she's terminally ill. When things don't go our way, it's not easy either.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I'm not trying to provoke anyone to error; I'm asking if by "God's commandments", you mean all the OT laws as well? If so, then how do you answer what Hebrews says about the law being a shadow, and Jesus' words that he has fulfilled the law?

There have been dozens of threads on these forums about the need for Gentiles to keep Jewish law that Jesus has fulfilled. I'm not the first person to ask this.
But if you say that I am wrong, yet don't want to correct me; so be it.
I think that the most hurtful error, leading to souls being destroyed or left on the wide road to destruction(with the world/society), is the false belief that "Jesus fulfilled the TORAH" is equivalent to "Jesus did away with TORAH".
 
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Strong in Him

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I think that the most hurtful error, leading to souls being destroyed or left on the wide road to destruction(with the world/society), is the false belief that "Jesus fulfilled the TORAH" is equivalent to "Jesus did away with TORAH".

I would imagine that that would be hurtful; but I didn't say that.
I said Jesus has fulfilled the law.

He fulfilled the sacrifices for sin and guilt; he is the Lamb of God, John 1:29 and offered his life once and for all on the cross.
The Jews had to keep many laws to show that they were holy - Jesus makes us holy and sends his Holy Spirit to live in us.
They were taught not to eat certain foods, or touch certain people, or they would be considered unclean. Jesus taught that it is not what goes into the mouth that makes someone unclean, but what comes out of it - bad words, sinful attitudes and so on.
Many of the feasts were given to remind the Israelites that they had been slaves in Egypt and were rescued by God; the feast of Tabernacles, the Passover and so on. Jesus rescued us from sin and death - our previous master having been the devil. He became flesh and was tabernacled among us. He shared a final Passover meal with his friends, broke bread and told us to do this in remembrance of him, before, himself, becoming the Passover Lamb. 50 days after the resurrection, when the Jews were celebrating Harvest, his Holy Spirit was poured out on the early church, in fulfilment of OT prophecies. Before Pentecost there were 120 believers, 3,000 were added on the day of Pentecost and the church kept on growing.
Jesus affirmed the 10 commandments and summed them up in the words "Love God with all your heart, soul mind and love your neighbour as yourself". Those words appear in two different verses in the OT, it was Jesus who put them together as a summing up of the 10 - i.e the first 5 commandments are about loving God; the last 5 are about loving your neighbour.

Jesus came to fulfil the law - a law that Gentiles were not given and were never bound by anyway.
 
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Phil W

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Not sure what you're saying. Be perfect and holy. God is perfect and holy. But man often stumbles, if not into dictated sin, then by sin of thought or speech.
If the man has killed his old self, (Rom 6:3-7), and been reborn of Godly seed, (1 John 3:9), he will not commit sin.
Grape vines cannot bear figs.
 
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Phil W

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The grace is the luxury to not die this day for our iniquity. Moreover, the grace is the luxury to come to repentance and evade the sting of death itself - the consequence for breaking the Law of the Most High God.
It is written..."Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after." (1 Tim 5:24)
The wages of sin is death, as written in Rom 6:23, so the judgement for sins in 1 Tim 5:24 is our death, before the day of judgement.
The grace of God has allowed, actually, facilitated our death so we can be reborn of God's seed.
Those reborn of God's seed cannot commit iniquity.

No, should have the conscience and conviction to reject sin. The grace is afforded to us to come to repentance without being scared of condemnation. In other words: we have no reason not to follow the Law. We can delight in the Law even if we transgress - because we have been given the grace to repent.
If we have repented of sin, actually turned from it, we won't be committing more sin.
More sin would manifest that the repentance from sin was a lie to God.
 
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Phil W

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Actually what your saying is something I was taught in the Mormon church. I don't recall seeing it in the bible. If you can't quote then I'll disregard it. I have to require quotes from the bible only, as we are all of different faiths and beliefs and I require viewing of scripture to decide what I believe for myself.

But for the most part Jesus the Christ raised me in my heart. Man fell short.
Proverbs 22:6..."Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
 
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Kaon

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It is written..."Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after." (1 Tim 5:24)
The wages of sin is death, as written in Rom 6:23, so the judgement for sins in 1 Tim 5:24 is our death, before the day of judgement.
The grace of God has allowed, actually, facilitated our death so we can be reborn of God's seed.
Those reborn of God's seed cannot commit iniquity.

Without the Redeemer, we would be dead forever. We are already dead, and rotting to death in flesh. The Grace of God gives us an audience and Advocate before the Most High God for the purposes of 1) coming to repentance to 2) be forgiven, and be resurrected at Judgment day.

Not one place did the Most High God say His grace allows us to disobey any Law He previously set up. If you find a place where He says that, then I am all ears.


If we have repented of sin, actually turned from it, we won't be committing more sin.
More sin would manifest that the repentance from sin was a lie to God.

No, repentance, sanctification and forgiveness are not absolutes. Yes, if the spirit works in you, you do not want or will to commit more sin however, it doesn't matter if you never sin ever again: doing it once means you are sentenced to death under the Law of the Most High God.

That is why Grace is so important: if you have to ask for forgiveness once, you need the grace to gain an audience and Advocate to repent before the Most High God and hope to gain forgiveness and resurrect at Judgment.

Nowhere does the Most High God, or the Word of God Himself ever say that Grace allows us to ignore, make void or make inert any part of the Law of the Most High God. If the Redeemer, or the Most High God do say this is any apocryphal, Gnostic or canonical text, then I am all ears.
 
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