Question for Sabbatarians

[bèlla]

I'd be interested in that testimony. I also found Messiah because I had turned my heart back to the God of our fathers. Not because of the church. I believe God is restoring Israel in ways that amaze both Jews and non Jewish believers.

Thank you. I’m happy to share and would love to hear yours too! I agree and recollect numerous instances where I felt a draw whenever I passed a synagogue. My homecoming occurred in a shul I passed many times on the way to school. It was a life altering experience.

I was raised by my Jewish grandparents who came from eastern Europe. Their love and devotion to our God and our people, and others influenced me to this very day. And I know I will see them again, I know our Messiah did not leave them behind.

You had a rich heritage and were immensely blessed with examples who imprinted your heart. Their guidance has contributed to person you’ve become. That’s precious. Shaping souls is hard work and He knows that.

I don't think many Christians understand why Jews are being reached and saved by Yeshua outside of church membership. Or even without ever identifying as what they term as a Christian.

There are many mysteries we aren’t privy too. Our hearts can swell if we believe we’re the lone avenue to Him. He knows how to woo His people and uses many methods to bring us home.

For a Jew, God is far more concerned about his life, his devotion, and his humility than he is with churches and membership. Though I do not believe in forsaking fellowship at all.

I’ve found the same holds true in my walk. My thirst is for HaShem and I’ve fellowshipped in Jewish and Christian settings. But after a while I felt a growing need to find my place and didn’t feel it was where I stood. It’s taken years to discern. I needed to make sure it was my spirit talking. Not the flesh. Now the matter is resolved and I’m heading home.

What many don't grasp is even in our unbelief God will honor his promise to us.

He’s been incredibly generous and loving. There’s nothing I forsook He hasn’t redeemed in a measure greater than the original. His unchanging hand would not relent. I owe all that I am to Him.

Revelation is about our restoration you know!?

I attended church for several years. But I felt an ache in my spirit I couldn’t explain. One year I decided to go to the Rosh HaShanah service. I recall standing and looking around at all the people present.

And when we began to sing Avinu Malkeinu something happened. My heart began to swell and the dam burst. The magnitude of its words and presence of my People brought me to tears.

Amidst the pleas for remembrance and the tears that flooded my face was the reality that I needed them just as much as they needed me. Maybe more.

I cannot escape who I am or the methods He undertook to return me to Him. And it was never His intention for me to do so. The light must remain where it was sent.

Shalom.

 

[Shimshon]

Thank you. I’m happy to share and would love to hear yours too! I agree and recollect numerous instances where I felt a draw whenever I passed a synagogue. My homecoming occurred in a shul I passed many times on the way to school. It was a life altering experience.

Shalom Shalom
I was born in NYC way back when, before the liberal indoctrination. I was raised among the Jewish community of the south Bronx. By the time I was a teen I had become basically a secular Jew for numerous reasons. My family moved out west and I became completely detached from any connection to Judaism, except my name. And even through all of this my grandfather was still there, giving me his heart and soul. He never let go, even when I was running away. And when it came time for Hashem to take him home it was my last straw. He broke it. And somehow I knew I had to return. This is when I found Yeshua, right before he took my abba from me. And the strangest thing happened, as I started to tell my grandfather on his death bed about Yeshua. He just smiled at me. He just loved me. He didn't have a word to say against me, he didn't even have a disgusted look. He just looked into my eyes with love. ?? That was his only response. I was not about to push that conversation any farther, on his death bed.

He died, and I devoted my life to Yeshua. So this friend of my father who was a member of a huge southern baptist church implores me to be baptized. She wouldn't let it go. So there I am, me and my Jewish father in the audience getting immersed in a church. But it wasn't the church, it wasn't the people it wasn't the denomination that meant a thing. It was the love I felt in my heart from Yeshua himself. There was a love song playing in my heart that I never knew before. He drew me, but when I drank I was overjoyed. He had entered my heart! And there is no one like Him!

My life changed drastically and has been changing ever since. Like a tree planted by living waters I have only God to thank and honor for the salvation he has given me. And the restoration he has begun in my life. And all the lives of our kinsmen.

And when we began to sing Avinu Malkeinu something happened. My heart began to swell and the dam burst. The magnitude of its words and presence of my People brought me to tears.

Yes, YES! I love praying the liturgy to this day. Not because it reminds me of Israel long ago, or the history of our people, but because in it is the heart of God, the love of Yeshua. Our Father Our King! They are echad! And his spirit dwells within us, the veil is lifted when we can see Yeshua in all things! ESPECIALLY throughout the praises of Israel. Amen

Good to meet you sis!

 

[bèlla]

And when it came time for Hashem to take him home it was my last straw. He broke it. And somehow I knew I had to return.

My grandfather’s death had a serious impact on me. I was shown he wouldn’t survive long before the illness intensified. I blessed him before he departed. The last words he heard were HaShem’s. He’s with Him now.

It’s wonderful you were able to share your homecoming with both. You gave them the greatest gift anyone could receive.

Like you, I love the liturgy and feel a sense of oneness when I pray. Being on one accord in faith is powerful.

May Adonai bless and prosper the work of your hands for His Kingdom. It is nice to meet a fellow kinsmen.

Shlomeino tov. Indeed, our peace is good.

 

[pasifika]

Again---the Sabbath was given at creation and Jesus said it was made for man---He did not say it was made for the Jew. If you want to believe that God created a day of rest for mankind and then failed to tell anyone about it until over 2,000 years, you are free to think so. I don't think God creates what is useless nor that He is careless and forgetful. And yes, Jesus rested on the 7th day and He never mentioned to anyone that now we were to celebrate the 1st day of the week in honor of His resurrection. No harm in doing so---but only Jesus can change what He Himself sanctified and made holy.

Hello, yes the Sabbath was made for man...but was it given to man at creation??? made something for someone doesn't mean it was given at that particular time unless it was mentioned...

So is there any scripture that state the 7th day Sabbath was given to man at creation??

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Hello, yes the Sabbath was made for man...but was it given to man at creation??? made something for someone doesn't mean it was given at that particular time unless it was mentioned...

So is there any scripture that state the 7th day Sabbath was given to man at creation??

It was given to Adam haRishon

 

[mmksparbud]

Hello, yes the Sabbath was made for man...but was it given to man at creation??? made something for someone doesn't mean it was given at that particular time unless it was mentioned...

So is there any scripture that state the 7th day Sabbath was given to man at creation??

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Make of it what you will. God did not make it for Himself---He did not need to rest. He did not make it for the angels, this earth was made for mankind. Maybe you feel He is so inept that He failed to tell anybody about it for over 2,000 years, I do not. Manna did not fall on the Sabbath and that started before Mt. Zion.
Jesus made the Sabbath, He created everything. And it was Jesus that said the Sabbath was made foir man---He did not say for the Jews.

 

[Semper-Fi]

Hello, yes the Sabbath was made for man...but was it given to man at creation??? made something for someone doesn't mean it was given at that particular time unless it was mentioned...

So is there any scripture that state the 7th day Sabbath was given to man at creation??

Job knew about God before the Book of Genesis was written, as he said, "I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees You"
(Job 42:5).

Commandment 1:

2 "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 "You shall have no other gods before Me. (Exodus 20:2-3)

The Book of Job states:

21 Blessed be the name of the LORD (Job 1:21).

28 This also would be an iniquity deserving of judgement, For I would have denied God who is above (Job 31:28).

1 The Job answered the LORD and said: 'I know that You can do everything, and that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You' (Job 42:1-2).

28 And to man He said, 'Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom, and to depart from evil is understanding' (Job 28:28).

What is interesting about Job 28:28 is that Job said that this is what God said to man and there is no record of this being said in Genesis (which is the primary biblical book with information prior to the story of Job), thus this verse proves that God spoke to humankind prior to Moses in at least one way that was not recorded in Genesis.

Thus this refutes the argument that none prior to Mount Sinai could have known what the commandments were! If there were no commandments in effect, how could denying God be an iniquity deserving of judgement?

 

[klutedavid]

Hello mmksparbud.

You stated the comment below in post #50.

Is God going to let any murderer, liar, thief, blasphemer, or covetous person into heaven? It may make you sick to be around people who do not do these things, but it makes God sick to see people do these things

We are all forgiven sinners and every last one of us. Not one believer in Jesus is free from sin and will never be while clothed in this body of flesh.

If your righteous soul is tormented by the sin of the unbelievers around you. You have probably forgotten that you also sin and have somehow become self righteous. Have a good look in the mirror and tell me what you see.

You do not stand before God on the basis of your own freedom from sin, rather you stand before God in and through Jesus Christ.

The Pharisees were very self righteous.

 

[klutedavid]

Day to day by the country you're in. I observe Sabbath from sundown Fri to sundown Sat night.

Yet again you did not answer my question.

I asked you whether you follow the Hebrew lunar calendar or you follow the papal, Gregorian, solar calendar?

Of course you observe the Sabbath from sundown to sundown because that is scripture.

The days of the week under a lunar calendar do not coincide with the days of a solar calendar. Because the start of each month is different within these two calendars.

If you country is under a papal, Gregorian, solar calendar, then you are not following the Sabbaths of the Old Testament.

A lunar month is based on the sighting of the new moon and varies from month to month.

 

[Semper-Fi]

If you country is under a papal, Gregorian, solar calendar, then you are not following the Sabbaths of the Old Testament.

-Astronomy observance

"There has been no change in our calendar in past centuries that has affected in any way the cycle of the week."—James Robertson, Director American Ephemeris, Navy Department, U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, D.C., March 12, 1932.

"The human race never lost the septenary [seven day] sequence of week days and that the Sabbath of these latter times comes down to us from Adam, though the ages, without a single lapse."—Dr. Totten, professor of astronomy at Yale University.

"Seven has been the ancient and honored number among the nations of the earth. They have measured their time by weeks from the beginning. The origin of this was the Sabbath of God, as Moses has given the reasons for it in his writings."
—Dr. Lyman Coleman.


"By calculating the eclipses, it can be proven that no time has been lost and the creation days were seven, divided into 24 hours each."—Dr. Hinkley,
The Watchman, July 1926 [Hinkley was a well-known astronomer].

"It can be said with assurance that not a day has been lost since Creation, and all the calendar changes notwithstanding, there has been no break in the weekly cycle."—Dr. Frank Jeffries, Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society and Research
Director of the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.

There is no question about which day
the seventh day of the week is.

The weekly cycle

the break between the shift from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar?

There was a well known break of 10 days.

In 1582, that Thursday the 4th was followed by Friday the 15th. The weekly cycle was not interrupted. Now take a look at 1752, Wednesday the 2nd was followed by Thursday the 14th.

Again, the calendar had to be adjusted to correct it to the seasons but the weekly cycle remained unchanged.

Just have to look on your calendar,
the Sabbath day is the last day of the week.

Now if you need to find the other Sabbaths,
yes you need to follow the Hebrew calander

 

[klutedavid]

How very wrong you are!!
The law that was done away with is quite obvious, it was the Levitical laws that pointed to Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb for He is the fulfillment of those and is now our High Priest.

The law that was abolished you said was the law of Leviticus, that pointed to Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb

Yet circumcision is mentioned in Genesis and in the book of Exodus.

Exodus 12:44
But every man’s slave purchased with money, after you have circumcised him, then he may eat of it.

Circumcision was abolished and circumcision was not a law given in Leviticus.

The Jewish civil laws were also abolished.

The Jewish health laws were abolished.

The Jewish food laws no longer apply.

All law related to the temple and the priesthood were also abolished.

Why do you not declare what the scripture actually tells us about the law?

 

[mmksparbud]

Hello mmksparbud.

You stated the comment below in post #50.

We are all forgiven sinners and every last one of us. Not one believer in Jesus is free from sin and will never be while clothed in this body of flesh.

If your righteous soul is tormented by the sin of the unbelievers around you. You have probably forgotten that you also sin and have somehow become self righteous. Have a good look in the mirror and tell me what you see.

You do not stand before God on the basis of your own freedom from sin, rather you stand before God in and through Jesus Christ.

The Pharisees were very self righteous.

And who doesn't know we are all forgiven sinners??? My question was about God---and I said it makes God sick to see people do these things----why then do you twist what I said AND MAKE IT TO SOUND THAT I AM SELF RIGHTEOUS???
You posted what I said but then you changed what I said and you call me self righteous??!!! Get a grip. You are not supposed top address the poster but the post. Not only do some people require a mirror---but a magnifying glass to boot.

 

[mmksparbud]

The law that was abolished you said was the law of Leviticus, that pointed to Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb

Yet circumcision is mentioned in Genesis and in the book of Exodus.

Exodus 12:44
But every man’s slave purchased with money, after you have circumcised him, then he may eat of it.

Circumcision was abolished and circumcision was not a law given in Leviticus.

The Jewish civil laws were also abolished.

The Jewish health laws were abolished.

The Jewish food laws no longer apply.

All law related to the temple and the priesthood were also abolished.

Why do you not declare what the scripture actually tells us about the law?

And??? What does circumcision have to do with the Sabbath or any of the Levitical laws that point to Jesus as the sacrificial Lamb or any of the 10 commandments?

Levitical meaning priesthood.

 

[klutedavid]

-Astronomy observance

"There has been no change in our calendar in past centuries that has affected in any way the cycle of the week."—James Robertson, Director American Ephemeris, Navy Department, U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, D.C., March 12, 1932.

"The human race never lost the septenary [seven day] sequence of week days and that the Sabbath of these latter times comes down to us from Adam, though the ages, without a single lapse."—Dr. Totten, professor of astronomy at Yale University.

"Seven has been the ancient and honored number among the nations of the earth. They have measured their time by weeks from the beginning. The origin of this was the Sabbath of God, as Moses has given the reasons for it in his writings."
—Dr. Lyman Coleman.


"By calculating the eclipses, it can be proven that no time has been lost and the creation days were seven, divided into 24 hours each."—Dr. Hinkley,
The Watchman, July 1926 [Hinkley was a well-known astronomer].

"It can be said with assurance that not a day has been lost since Creation, and all the calendar changes notwithstanding, there has been no break in the weekly cycle."—Dr. Frank Jeffries, Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society and Research
Director of the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.

There is no question about which day
the seventh day of the week is.

The weekly cycle

the break between the shift from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar?

There was a well known break of 10 days.

In 1582, that Thursday the 4th was followed by Friday the 15th. The weekly cycle was not interrupted. Now take a look at 1752, Wednesday the 2nd was followed by Thursday the 14th.

Again, the calendar had to be adjusted to correct it to the seasons but the weekly cycle remained unchanged.

Just have to look on your calendar,
the Sabbath day is the last day of the week.

Now if you need to find the other Sabbaths,
yes you need to follow the Hebrew calander

The conversation is not about the days of the week. The conversation is about the start of the month. The days of the week follow the start of each month.

The start of each month in a given year are different under a lunar calendar to a solar, papal calendar.

That is why there are two different calendars.

One calendar is based on the new moon and the other is a yearly solar calendar.

If you deny the existence of these two calendars then, you have never researched Hebrew lunar months.

 

[klutedavid]

And??? What does circumcision have to do with the Sabbath or any of the Levitical laws that point to Jesus as the sacrificial Lamb or any of the 10 commandments?

Levitical meaning priesthood.

So why was circumcision abolished?

 

[klutedavid]

And who doesn't know we are all forgiven sinners??? My question was about God---and I said it makes God sick to see people do these things----why then do you twist what I said AND MAKE IT TO SOUND THAT I AM SELF RIGHTEOUS???
You posted what I said but then you changed what I said and you call me self righteous??!!! Get a grip. You are not supposed top address the poster but the post. Not only do some people require a mirror---but a magnifying glass to boot.

Here is what you said.

It may make you sick to be around people who do not do these things,

You cannot contradict yourself.

 

[mmksparbud]

The Jewish health laws were abolished.

The Jewish food laws no longer apply.

Did the human body change with the crucifixion of Jesus? SDA's are on record, by much non-denominational research, to be healthier and longer lived because of our lifestyle. We are not Kosher--but we follow clean and unclean meats, we do not drink alcohol, and most of us are vegetarian and vegan which the majority of people nowadays are finally leaning towards.

 

[mmksparbud]

So why was circumcision abolished?

Because that was decidedly Jewish, and now we are
Gal_3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[pasifika]

Job knew about God before the Book of Genesis was written, as he said, "I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees You"
(Job 42:5).

Commandment 1:

2 "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 "You shall have no other gods before Me. (Exodus 20:2-3)

The Book of Job states:

21 Blessed be the name of the LORD (Job 1:21).

28 This also would be an iniquity deserving of judgement, For I would have denied God who is above (Job 31:28).

1 The Job answered the LORD and said: 'I know that You can do everything, and that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You' (Job 42:1-2).

28 And to man He said, 'Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom, and to depart from evil is understanding' (Job 28:28).

What is interesting about Job 28:28 is that Job said that this is what God said to man and there is no record of this being said in Genesis (which is the primary biblical book with information prior to the story of Job), thus this verse proves that God spoke to humankind prior to Moses in at least one way that was not recorded in Genesis.

Thus this refutes the argument that none prior to Mount Sinai could have known what the commandments were! If there were no commandments in effect, how could denying God be an iniquity deserving of judgement?

Hello, I think God does not only speak or revealed Himself to man on the 7th day Sabbath but any day according to His will. So Job know God because God revealed Himself to Him, was that on the Sabbath? I don't know. Did the scriptures mentioned it was on the 7th day Sabbath?

 

[mmksparbud]

Here is what you said.

You cannot contradict yourself.

I didn't---"It may make you sick to be around people who do not do these things,"

I said you--I did not say me. and you did not understand what I said---"who do not do these things,"

I suggest you read that post over and over until you get it.