Why Jerusalem is Mystically Called Sodom and Egypt

parousia70

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Luke is talking about the general area. Jesus was crucified outside of the city.

"One of them, named Cleopas, answered and said to Him, 'Are You the only one visiting Jerusalem and unaware of the things which have happened here in these days?'" (Luke 24:18)
 
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ewq1938

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"One of them, named Cleopas, answered and said to Him, 'Are You the only one visiting Jerusalem and unaware of the things which have happened here in these days?'" (Luke 24:18)

Christ was crucified at Golgotha which is outside of the city.

G1115
Γολγοθᾶ
Golgotha
gol-goth-ah'
Of Chaldee origin (compare [H1538]); the skull; Golgotha, a knoll near Jerusalem: - Golgotha.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Christ was crucified at Golgotha which is outside of the city.
G1115 Γολγοθᾶ Golgotha
Of Chaldee origin (compare [H1538]); the skull; Golgotha, a knoll near Jerusalem: - Golgotha.
Informative post ewq.
I found this info on it:

Calvary - Wikipedia

Calvary
, or Golgotha (Biblical Greek Γολγοθᾶ[ς] Golgotha, traditionally interpreted as reflecting Syriac (Aramaic) golgolta,[1] as it were Hebrew gulgōleṯ (גולגולת), "skull"[2]), was, according to the Gospels, a site immediately outside Jerusalem's walls where Jesus was crucified.[3]

Matthew's and Mark's gospels translate the term to mean "place of [the] skull" (Κρανίου Τόπος Kraníou Tópos),[4] in Latin rendered Calvariæ Locus, from which the English word Calvary derives.



 
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LittleLambofJesus

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ewq1938 said:
Luke is talking about the general area. Jesus was crucified outside of the city.
"One of them, named Cleopas, answered and said to Him, 'Are You the only one visiting Jerusalem and unaware of the things which have happened here in these days?'" (Luke 24:18)
Then why would Jesus tell John to write "mystery Babylon"?
I am sure John was familiar with Babylon and their destruction of Solomon's Temple .............

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 17:
4 And the Woman was having been arrayed with
purple and scarlet/crimson and gilded to gold, and precious<5093> stone, and pearls<3135>,
having a golden Cup in Her hand, replete of abominations and uncleanness<169> of Her whoredom,
5 and upon Her forehead was a name written:
Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of the harlots, and the Abominations of the earth.’
6 And I saw the Woman being drunk out of the blood of the Saints, and out of the blood of the Witnesses of Jesus, and I marvel seeing Her, a great marvel
7 And the Messenger said to me, "Wherefore thou marvel? I shall be declaring<5046> to thee the Mystery of the Woman and of the Beast carrying Her, which hath the seven Heads and the ten Horns.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I must disagree. Jerusalem is not "the great city." Jerusalem wasn't mentioned...it is us mistakenly assuming Jerusalem is the place. Jesus was crucified just outside the gates of Jerusalem...not in Jerusalem. In other words, He was crucified in the world for the world is the great city Babylon.
Sodom/wickedness and Egypt/carnal, worldly lusts are where the dead bodies lie.
.
parousia70 said:
Jesus Christ:
"Nevertheless I must journey on today and tomorrow and the next day; for it cannot be that a prophet would perish outside of Jerusalem. (Lk 13:33)
Luke is talking about the general area. Jesus was crucified outside of the city.
Golgotha Rediscovered
"Golgotha, often named Calvary, is on the other side of Jerusalem, just outside the eastern wall, northeast of the Temple Mount."
Gill:
for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem; because the great sanhedrim only sat at Jerusalem, to whom it belonged to try and judge a prophet; and if found false, to condemn him, and put him to death; the rule is this (e);
"they do not judge, neither a tribe, nor a false prophet, nor an high priest, but by the sanhedrim of seventy and one.''

Not but that prophets sometimes perished elsewhere, as John the Baptist in Galilee; but not according to a judicial process, in which way Christ the prophet was to be cut off, nor was it common; instances of this kind were rare, and always in a violent way; and even such as were sentenced to death by the lesser sanhedrim, were brought to Jerusalem, and publicly executed there, whose crimes were of another sort; for so runs the canon (f);

"they do not put any one to death by the sanhedrim, which is in his city, nor by the sanhedrim in Jabneh; but they bring him to the great, sanhedrim in Jerusalem, and keep him till the feast, and put him to death on a feast day, as it is said Deu_17:13 "and all the people shall hear and fear."''
Great info.
I did a phrase search of "outside city" and came up with just a few verses in the NT [including 2 in Revelation]

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
"outside" AND "city"
occurs 37 times in 18 verses in the NKJV.

Eze 7:15
The sword is outside, And the pestilence and famine within.
Whoever is in the field Will die by the sword;
And whoever is in the city, Famine and pestilence will devour him. [Luke 21:11-24]

Mar 1:45
However, he went out and began to proclaim it freely, and to spread the matter, so that Jesus could no longer openly enter the City, but was outside in deserted places; and they came to Him from every direction.

Luke 21:24 “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. [Revelation 13:10]
And Jerusalem will be trampled<3961> by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” [Revelation 11:2]llll

This Court in Reve 11 is shown be cast outside of the Temple/City:


Revelation 11:

1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of the God and the Altar and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833>, outside of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side<1854>, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the nations
and the holy City they shall be trampling<3961> forty two months.

This winepress is being shown outside of Jerusalem:

Rev 14:20
And the winepress was trampled outside the city,
and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses' bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs.
 
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Jack Terrence

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You obviously took this too far. The scriptures state that Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem and I believe you already knew that and would have no problem saying so under different circumstances.
The scriptures no where state that Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem. They say that he was crucified at Golgotha which was approximately 2 kilometers outside Jerusalem.
 
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BABerean2

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The scriptures no where state that Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem. They say that he was crucified at Golgotha which was approximately 2 kilometers outside Jerusalem.

He may have been killed outside the city gates.
However, the scriptures below hold the city of Jerusalem responsible for the act.


Mat_16:21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.

Mat_20:18 "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death,

Mat_23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Mar_10:33 "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death and deliver Him to the Gentiles;

Luk_9:31 who appeared in glory and spoke of His decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.

Luk_13:33 Nevertheless I must journey today, tomorrow, and the day following; for it cannot be that a prophet should perish outside of Jerusalem.

Luk_18:31 Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of Man will be accomplished.

Luk_24:18 Then the one whose name was Cleopas answered and said to Him, "Are You the only stranger in Jerusalem, and have You not known the things which happened there in these days?"

.
 
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TribulationSigns

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The scriptures no where state that Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem. They say that he was crucified at Golgotha which was approximately 2 kilometers outside Jerusalem.

Let examine this with Scripture:

Heb 13:11-13
(11) For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.
(12) Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
(13) Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

According to Hebrews 13:12, the Lord was crucified just outside (Hebrews 13:12) of the city. It is a SPIRITUAL ILLUSTRATION that he was not crucified within the TRUE City, outside of the city is still considered part of the city or area of Jerusalem.

Look at Revelation 11 as a good example:

Rev 11:1-2
(1) And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
(2) But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Much like the illustration of the Holy Temple, and the court is just outside, but it is also considered as part of the Holy Temple, even though it is not the true Temple. This is something we can understand when God said:

Rev 11:7-10
(7) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
(8) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
(9) And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
(10) And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

It is illustrating that the true witnesses (the true Church within the external covenant Church) had become a people of derision or a people to be mocked, reviled, and scorned. Just as the faithful witnesses today are thought of as legalists who literally believe that God 'actually' means exactly what He says. People who actually faithfully adhere to His Word, and seek to keep the commandments of God, not compromising doctrine for the sake of the flesh like the false prophets and christs who are deceiving professed Christians within with their doctrines. This is how the professed christians shall look upon [blepo] these faithful who they have effectively killed (silenced) in the city. In other words, the disdain of these believers is not something they cannot recognize. Though they surely will deny that these witnesses they silenced taught the truth, they see what their actions have done to them, and recognize that their voice has been eliminated. But they do not repent nor mourn the loss of their true witness in the Churches. These people who are from all over the world, from all kindreds (families), tongues (languages) and nations, who see the death of the witnesses in the wide ways do not care about them. We read that they do not bother to bury them. This is symbolizing that the people of the world who have come up into the Church have no regret, and they do not mourn for the fact that the witnesses of truth have been silenced in the City. There is no repentance shown for what they have done.

In fact, the unsaved rejoice that the Word of life they brought has been silenced because these faithful witnesses of God tormented them. And the means of their torment was their testimony of fire from their mouths which would burn them. They are tired of hearing faithful witnesses warning about homosexualities, divorce and remarriage, propersity Gospel, etc as abominations. They wanted them to be silenced. Once the testimony of faithful witnesses is silenced in the church, the enemies actually REJOICED and exchange gifts by honoring each other instead of to God. This is symbolizing their showing reverent regard for each other. This should be for God, but now that they are free from the torment of God's Word, they honor themselves with whatever they like to believe in. In doing so they are serving a false god in the temple, rather than the true God of the Bible. They reject God's law and are serving themselves (lawless man, or the man of sin) and seek after gifts, the glory of men, rather than of God.

I believe is what is happening right now in many congregations of God all over the world. As a result, the judgment of the harlot is taking place. Only if you have spiritual eyes to see.
 
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Jack Terrence

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He may have been killed outside the city gates.
However, the scriptures below hold the city of Jerusalem responsible for the act.


Mat_16:21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.

Mat_20:18 "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death,

Mat_23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Mar_10:33 "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death and deliver Him to the Gentiles;

Luk_9:31 who appeared in glory and spoke of His decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.

Luk_13:33 Nevertheless I must journey today, tomorrow, and the day following; for it cannot be that a prophet should perish outside of Jerusalem.

Luk_18:31 Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of Man will be accomplished.

Luk_24:18 Then the one whose name was Cleopas answered and said to Him, "Are You the only stranger in Jerusalem, and have You not known the things which happened there in these days?"

.
The Lord was not crucified in Jerusalem. He was crucified at Golgotha.

John 19: So the soldiers took charge of Jesus. 17 Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha). 18 There they crucified him, and with him two others—one on each side and Jesus in the middle.

Note that it says "THERE they crucified him."

The scriptures you give do NOT show that Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem. They show that the people of Jerusalem were responsible for his death. Jerusalem is the people, not the physical city. Paul said that all who persecute the people of God are Jerusalem (Galatians 4:21-31). The "great city" where our Lord was crucified is the sinners who crucified him. It is NOT the physical city. The physical city had been destroyed for a quarter century before the Revelation was written. The "great city" where the dead bodies of the two witnesses lie represents sinners. The dead bodies of the two witnesses lies among sinners, not in the streets of a physical city. This is the true meaning.

Jerusalem the physical city is no where mentioned in the Revelation.
 
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BABerean2

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The Lord was not crucified in Jerusalem. He was crucified at Golgotha.

If someone who lived during the first century asked where Golgotha was located, what do you think would be the most common answer that was given?

My mailing address is over 5 miles outside the city limits of the city written on my mail.
When people ask where I live, guess what my answer would normally be?

It is not my GPS coordinates.


Revelation 11:8
(NKJV) And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

.
 
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ewq1938

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Jerusalem the physical city is no where mentioned in the Revelation.


That's incorrect.

Rev_11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Rev_11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jesus was crucified just a short distance outside of the city walls but that's close enough to say he was crucified at Jerusalem.

Rev_11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

These all refer to the physical city of Jerusalem, old Jerusalem not new Jerusalem.
 
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TribulationSigns

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That's incorrect.

Rev_11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Rev_11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jesus was crucified just a short distance outside of the city walls but that's close enough to say he was crucified at Jerusalem.

Rev_11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

These all refer to the physical city of Jerusalem, old Jerusalem not new Jerusalem.

Correction: New Testament Congregation of Israel, the Church. More specifically, the external or corporate part of the Congregation made up of unsaved professed Christians that is bringing the city to desolate with their abominations (false gospels). It is not about a physical city, old or new like you think.
 
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One Son

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Correction: New Testament Congregation of Israel, the Church. More specifically, the external or corporate part of the Congregation made up of unsaved professed Christians that is bringing the city to desolate with their abominations (false gospels). It is not about a physical city, old or new like you think.

Rev.11:8(BLB) And their body* will be upon the street of the great city, which is called spiritually Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. 9And those of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations gaze upon their bodies*(body) three and a half days, and they will not allow their bodies# to be put into a tomb.


* Strong's Greek 4430
πτῶμα (ptōma)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Singular


# Strong's Greek 4430
πτώματα (ptōmata)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Plural


The first two words are singular the third word is plural.





Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.(2Cor.5:17).
 
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TribulationSigns

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Rev.11:8(BLB) And their body* will be upon the street of the great city, which is called spiritually Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. 9And those of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations gaze upon their bodies*(body) three and a half days, and they will not allow their bodies# to be put into a tomb.

That is one bad bible translation. Blue Letter Bible is what you used?

The Young translation, includes KJV, says bodies!
 
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Jack Terrence

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If someone who lived during the first century asked where Golgotha was located, what do you think would be the most common answer that was given?

My mailing address is over 5 miles outside the city limits of the city written on my mail.
When people ask where I live, guess what my answer would normally be?

It is not my GPS coordinates.


Revelation 11:8
(NKJV) And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

.
Jesus was crucified at Golgotha in Judea a province of ROME.
 
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Jack Terrence

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That's incorrect.

Rev_11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Rev_11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jesus was crucified just a short distance outside of the city walls but that's close enough to say he was crucified at Jerusalem.

Rev_11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

These all refer to the physical city of Jerusalem, old Jerusalem not new Jerusalem.
No, those verses do NOT refer to the old Jerusalem.

Rev. 11:2, The "holy city" is a metaphor for the Jewish people wherever they may be found. In the Revelation the word "city" always refers to people, never a physical location.

Rev. 11:8, Again the "great city" refers to people. The word "city" in the Revelation does NOT refer to a physical location.

Rev. 11:13, The tenth part of the city was the inhabitants of the Roman Empire.


Revelation 11:8 means that the Lord was crucified in the world of men. It is not to be taken as a literal city or a specific location. Besides, the physical city of Jerusalem had been leveled 25 years prior to the writing of the book.
 
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TribulationSigns

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Why argue over the physical location of the cross in 32AD? That is not the point Christ was talking about His Old Testament congregation at that time. The point is WHO put Christ to death. Were they not HIS OWN PEOPLE, the Jews, who came and destroy the city and the sanctuary which Christ's body REPRESENTED! No, it has nothing to do with the Romans in 70AD. But the question is WHICH Jews? The Jewish believers or the professed Jews? The True or External part of the congregation? Yet they are BOTH considered God's people!

But today, the kingdom representative is NOW the New Testament Congregation, since Pentecost and Revelation 11 explained about her right before the Second Coming:

Rev 11:1-2
(1) And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
(2) But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

God said that there are two groups of people within His Congregation. One is measured (saved). Other is not measured (unsaved). Together they are considered Holy City building the city as gold, silver, and precious stones along with hay, wood, and stubble. Not everyone in the congregation is all saved:

Mat 22:14
(14) For many are called, but few are chosen.

Now when we read:

Rev 11:7-10
(7) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
(8) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
(9) And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
(10) And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

When the testimony of True Witnesses for the purpose of salvation is finished, the beast (a body of professed Christians with the spirit of antichrist) will rise to wage spiritual war against them, overcome them, and kill (silence) them. Because the True Witnesses is the body of Christ where they have crucified right in the great city. Just like the Jews did with Christ, the professed Christians hate those who bear truthful witnesses because it offended them. It torments them about their sins. To God, hate or loathing is equal to murder. So to speak against God's anointed True Witnesses for their truthful testimony is like killing them. As a result, more and more false prophets and christs coming in and rule the church with their false gospels where many people love it. The testimony of true witnesses have been with night club bands, feel-good gospels, talk about politics, wealth, improve sex life, love and tolerating for homosexualities, world-like performances, etc. without preaching about true repentance and hell. The professed Christians love this because no one wants to hear about Truth because it tormented them. And doesn't care if Truth is no longer preached in the church.

This is exactly how the Pharisees and all Jews deceived by them felt the moment Christ died. Same thing with professed Christs, along with their false prophets and christs, in New Testament congregation today. Haven't you noticed or denied? Well, the Lord judges.
 
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BABerean2

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Jesus was crucified at Golgotha in Judea a province of ROME.

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


So was Jesus was crucified in the city of Golgotha?

or was it the city of Judea?

or was it the city of Rome?

.
 
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Jack Terrence

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Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


So was Jesus was crucified in the city of Golgotha?

or was it the city of Judea?

or was it the city of Rome?

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Technically Golgotha was of the lower parts of the city of Rome. But that's not the point. The point is that he was crucified spiritually in Sodom and Egypt, that is, the whole world of sinful man. It says so. It is not about a specific physical location.
 
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