conservative groups fight mindfulness in schools

[Albion]

Yeah. Whitewash it all you want. It's mysticism repackaged under secular labels.

Hey. It wasn't I who came up with mysticism packaged under a secular label!

That someone else did it is what the thread is all about and, in particular, the instance of a school using the argument I cited for you that says if religion or God are not mentioned, its not religious. If you think that's an unconvincing argument, I gave the name of person who offered it and the link is in the OP.

 

[Fantine]

Yeah, let's make this thread into a left/right grudge match! Those always end well!

I merely said that if "mindfulness" lulls thinking Americans of any age into failing to take action to oust legislators who prioritize the needs (?) of the 1% over the urgent needs (and human rights) of the 99%, we don't need it. We need clear-headed thinkers who see the "effects," correctly identify the "cause," and oust them from office, starting, of course, with the current chief executive. That's not a grudge match. That's developing an educated voting populace.

Given that conservatives are poised to throw 20 million Americans off health care, however, we will need holistic health practices like mindfulness meditation to keep people well--along with travel funds to allow them to become medical tourists when they need expensive procedures.

 

[Resha Caner]

Hey. It wasn't I who came up with mysticism packaged under a secular label!

I know. I was agreeing with you.

 

[Pedra]

You need to demonstrate how it is actually harmful rather than just asserting it is so.

You don't care anyway.
I put up links when I posted to you, but you cling to your opinion instead.

 

[lsume]

I had not heard of the nonsense until following up on researching your posts key word. What I have been shown by my Lord Jesus The Christ pertaining to our future is scary. If Christ has shown me what I’m trying to share, it’s very close. He has protected me more than I had realized. Very soon something significantly bad is coming and every professing Christian will have to stand on their faith. To be overwhelmed by lust is about as horrible as one might imagine. Whether it be lust for money or drugs or whatever to be unable to satiate that lust and constantly want more sounds pretty bad to me. The major impact of what I saw came because it happens so very quickly. Christ has delivered me from doctors and medicine that I’ve been prescribed for the better part of 18 years. It was urgent that I be totally free from what is coming.

 

[Pedra]

I tend to see this sort of thing as a defensive reaction among people who do not necessarily have or know that they have such roots in their own religion

Where in the bible was any of that taught by Jesus? or Peter, or Paul?

 

[dzheremi]

I'm sorry, is this thread "Argue with other people over their faith"? No. Go away, troll.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

All the links I saw were about the benefits of Mindfulness. What links are you referring to?

OK, I see now post #9 link states

"• Social science research confirms that individuals engaging in purportedly “secular” MBSR experience a powerful transformative spiritual impact—towards a Buddhist worldview (i.e. away from Jesus Christ)."

But no supporting citation to any research.

If parents don't want their children in it they should be able to opt out but their fears are baseless.

http://www.ca3rsproject.org/bulletins/3RsBulletin-Nov-2016.pdf

 

[bèlla]

That must've been very interesting. Are they one of the forms of western monasticism which adhere to a vow of silence? Forgive me, but I can't remember which ones do and which don't. (And monasteries are generally fairly quiet anyway.)

The monastery follows the western tradition. They’re Cistercians. Yes, they have a vow of silence. Meals are taken in silence while a member reads a portion of Benedictine text. From that point until Vigils they remain quiet.

Compline follows and they retire to bed and gather for Vigils. When it ends the chapel is bathed in darkness and there’s an hour of stillness. Upon its conclusion Lauds commences and mass follows. They observe the major offices along with Terce, Sext and None.

I was raised Roman Catholic and spent significant time in the company of priests as a child due to my family’s position within the parish and desire to know more about God. Oftentimes we had lengthy discussions in the kitchen or a different room at the rectory. I was permitted access and shared meals with them too.

My involvement with the monastery was not a return to Catholicism. It marked the fulfillment of my homecoming to God. Returning to my roots was an important part of the process. However, there were aspects of their practices that I didn’t embrace. Nor did I emulate them at home save the prayers at regular intervals whose influence derived from Jewish practices.

I believe everyone can benefit from a daily prayer rule, and this is the one of my particular Church and tradition.

I feel it’s important to be led by the Holy Spirit in my faith. There are practices I’ve been instructed to undertake for a season and others that are constants. My labors in prayer gave some the impression I would be well-suited for intercession was incorrect. Others assumed my hunger for study pointed to full-time ministry. They were wrong too. The Lord was strengthening my foundation to prepare for the work to come. It is a far cry from what they assumed.

Again, everyone can benefit from a daily prayer rule, even more so than these children could benefit from contentless meditation.

I wouldn’t make the assumption or seek to influence its guise. A prayer rule may be suitable for some. And others may require a different form of connection. I have no interest in following a routine save the one He gives.

So long as it is orthodox, who can fear anything? Either God is with us or He isn't, and I believe He is.

I have never used Orthodox sources and would simply pray in Hebrew instead. That is my root. I have never been told to do otherwise.

 

[Pedra]

I'm sorry, is this thread "Argue with other people over their faith"? No. Go away, troll.

Where was I arguing with other people about their "faith"? I thought it was one faith --Christian and the teachings are recorded in the scriptures? I ask again where in the bible was any of that taught by the Apostles? or Jesus?

Where in the bible was any of that taught by Jesus? or Peter, or Paul?

 

[Pedra]

All the links I saw were about the benefits of Mindfulness. What links are you referring to?

The dark side of mindfulness | Christian News Journal
Meditation, The Occult, And The Bible: An Ex New-Agers Critique

 

[ViaCrucis]

The "appeal of antiquity"? I'm not THAT old! LOL

I understand what you're saying, but this nation was clearly founded on Christian principles, not on any other religious belief system. Many of our laws still reflect the biblical morality of the Ten Commandments--laws about adultery, lying, stealing, etc.

1) The founding fathers made it exceptionally clear that the United States was not founded on the Christian religion, as the language from the Treaty of Tripoli clearly states. And the mention of religion in our founding legal document--the Constitution--is very clear about the non-establishment of religion.

2) Having a set of basic societal norms--no murdering, no stealing, etc--are pretty intrinsic to most societies. One doesn't need the Ten Commandments in order to establish a society in which murdering other people is against the law. The Ten Commandments do not form part of the fabric of American civil law.

There's nothing in the Constitution that says all religions have to be equally represented in a public venue. And consider that the U.S. is a constitutional republic. Our laws have to pass the muster of the Constitution, not the majority of Americans.

There's nothing in the Constitution that permits any religion be represented in a public venue, in fact that's where the First Amendment's non-establishment clause comes into play.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[MayYouBeBlessed]

Conservative legal group challenges 'mindfulness' in schools


On the one hand I think its strange how mindfulness has become a fad, what Ron Percer calls "McMindfulness". On the other hand, it does make conservative evangelicals seem picayune to object to something that is devoid of obvious religious content (and I don't think "connecting to the universe" is a religious concept, even if it was removed from the curriculum in response to feedback). It's almost as if their idea of being a human being never includes paying attention to anything except their Bibles and religious dogma.

Nothing religious here. So what there is meditation in Buddhism or Hinduism. How about Ramadan fasting in Islam? Should we protest certain diets because they somehow resemble this Muslim practice? Absurd. Totally absurd.

It just shows blindness of religious folks today. So many real issues are never addressed, everybody is happy and content. Like government attacking foreign countries to get hold of their natural resources (Iraq, Lybia, etc). Or limiting our freedoms in the name of security.

Schools are easy targets, that's all... So sad, I'm ashamed to be a Christian when I hear about things like that....

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Conservative legal group challenges 'mindfulness' in schools


On the one hand I think its strange how mindfulness has become a fad, what Ron Percer calls "McMindfulness". On the other hand, it does make conservative evangelicals seem picayune to object to something that is devoid of obvious religious content (and I don't think "connecting to the universe" is a religious concept, even if it was removed from the curriculum in response to feedback). It's almost as if their idea of being a human being never includes paying attention to anything except their Bibles and religious dogma.

Mindfulness has some negative spiritual impacts. The universe being connected to is a sorcery oriented network that new agers do law of attraction based magic with. It's actually dangerous to expose children to it, since it can errode people's futures.

 

[Pedra]

The founding fathers made it exceptionally clear that the United States was not founded on the Christian religion, as the language from the Treaty of Tripoli clearly states.

It merely states that the government of America is not founded on the Christian religion it does not mean that the country itself was not founded with the principles and values of Christianity.
The separation of church and state is fundamental in Christianity.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Mindfulness has some negative spiritual impacts. The universe being connected to is a sorcery oriented network that new agers do law of attraction based magic with. It's actually dangerous to expose children to it, since it can errode people's futures.

Not at all. Mindfulness is about observing your own inner self without attachment not some "sorcery oriented network".

 

[ViaCrucis]

It merely states that the government of America is not founded on the Christian religion it does not mean that the country itself was not founded with the principles and values of Christianity.
The separation of church and state is fundamental in Christianity.

The country itself was founded on the largely secular principles of social contract theory, with inspiration from the Iroquois Confederacy, the Roman Republic, and Greek Democracy.

Christianity provides no system of nation-building. And so it is simply impossible to found a nation upon the Christian religion. Though attempts had been made to do so since the 4th century* with the Edict of Thesslonika under Theodosius I making the Roman Empire officially Christian. There had been numerous Christian kingdoms and empires throughout history; but it is largely always been Empire adopting Christianity, at least superficially; and never Christianity founding nation--for, again, such is simply not possible.

*I'd be in error to forget that it was the Kingdom of Armenia which was the first secular polity to adopt Christianity as a state religion, in the 3rd century. The adoption of Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire under Theodosius marks the second or third such occasion. As the Axumites had also converted to Christianity in the 4th century due to the missionary activity of St. Frumentius.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[FireDragon76]

Mindfulness has some negative spiritual impacts. The universe being connected to is a sorcery oriented network that new agers do law of attraction based magic with. It's actually dangerous to expose children to it, since it can errode people's futures.

The Law of Attraction is not taught as part of mindfulness. Most minduflness teachers would consider it superstition.

 

[Deborah D]

Having a set of basic societal norms--no murdering, no stealing, etc--are pretty intrinsic to most societies. One doesn't need the Ten Commandments in order to establish a society in which murdering other people is against the law. The Ten Commandments do not form part of the fabric of American civil law.

You really think that biblical morality is intrinsic? Is this because humans are so good at heart? It's true that God created humans with a conscience, but so often that inner thermometer for morality is broken through desensitization as evidenced throughout human history.

Me thinks real history contradicts your statement. Consider all the mass murders throughout human history--the killing of millions of innocent unborn humans, the Ottoman Empire's genocide of Armenians, the Killing Fields, Nazi genocide under Hitler, Communist genocide under Stalin, to name a few.

Then there are the societies where practices such as cannibalism, euthanasia of the elderly, allowing deformed children to starve to death, the murder of women by their husbands, etc. are considered acceptable. And yes, the U.S., despite our Christian foundation for morality, has failed to treat all humans with dignity throughout our history, but I think that our track record on human rights is better than it is for most countries because of our Christian heritage.

 

[FireDragon76]

Yeah. Whitewash it all you want. It's mysticism repackaged under secular labels.

No it isn't. Mindfulness-Based-Stress-Reduction has been validated in peer-reviewed scientific journals. No metaphysical claims are made as part of MBSR.

Yeah. It couldn't possibly be someone else is trying to sneak in their religious views. We all know only the bad Christian evangelicals do that.

You are just trying to frame the issue within your polemical worldview.