It has been claimed that water baptism is not needed today?
What do you think?
If yes why?
If no why?
What do you think?
If yes why?
If no why?
Is water baptism needed today?
- Thread starter Wordkeeper
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If the doctrine of Baptism by Desire and Baptism by Blood is valid, then it might be difficult to say that water Baptism is really necessary.....
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- Jun 5, 2016
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Well. Is Baptism something we do for God? Or something God does for us? It's most certainly something God does for us!
Have a look in Scriptures and read everything it has to say about Baptism, and you'll find that there is only one Baptism, instituted by one God, for the purpose of being baptised into the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. When it is God's grace - His promise of forgiveness of sins through our death and resurrection in Christ, through faith, why should we distrust or reject God's gracious gift?
Have a look in Scriptures and read everything it has to say about Baptism, and you'll find that there is only one Baptism, instituted by one God, for the purpose of being baptised into the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. When it is God's grace - His promise of forgiveness of sins through our death and resurrection in Christ, through faith, why should we distrust or reject God's gracious gift?
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Needful in context of what?
It was claimed that it is not needed, in what context?
It was claimed, not needed today, in what context?
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If someone had not been baptised as a baby, became a Christian as an adult but died before they thought about baptism or could get around to doing it, they'd be saved. In that sense it's not needed; salvation is possible without it. Nothing and no one can add to the finished work of Jesus - not even baptism.
We do it because a) Jesus told us to make disciples and baptise, b) adult baptism is a picture of what happens when we are born again - die to sin (going under the water), rise with Christ (coming back out again). We baptise babies because they are included in God's love and grace; like us, they don't have to do anything to earn it. Christ died for all before we were even born or knew anything about it.
But I believe that someone could hear the Gospel, receive Christ, be filled with his Spirit and be saved from that point - whether they were baptised months, years later or not at all.
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It was mentioned in this post that water baptism was not required in the past and not required today either. Since the post was sketchy and a little incoherent, I asked for clarification. There is no disrespect involved in my questioning, because sometimes people have ideas which are insightful, but they just have trouble expressing them. Also, it seemed to suggest that where faith and grace were involved, people were automatically saved. Quite a good input, the idea that baptism was added to the ordo salutis as an extra step without contributing to the result:
The real purpose of water baptism in the NT
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Faith and grace are nothing new. The people of the OT were/are saved the same way we are .... through Christ ... their faith in the promise of the Messiah to come. Baptism was not required then and is not required now to receive salvation.
It seems that John was commanded to begin baptising. The crowd was surprised, since the going wisdom was that no one could baptize unless they were the Messiah or Elijah or the Prophet.
And John seems to say that he began to baptize into water (ein can mean into) because he wanted people to know what the Messiah would do: baptize into water.
It seems that baptism opened access to edification by showing God's ability to deliver a believer to the destination of being a blessing to the world. John told his questioners to live without depending on worldly methods, to depend instead of God. He was doing it, and people were asked to see the result.
But Jesus seemed to teach different. Prompting John to send a group to clarify His identity...
Very intriguing .
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Acts2:38
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I'd say its necessary.
It was done to both Jew and Gentile alike. It started in Jerusalem in Acts 2, was brought to the Gentiles as in Acts 10.
Paul spoke about it being necessary. The gospel means "good news" in Greek, but Paul further defined it in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, death, burial, and resurrection.
So how do you obey a death, burial, and resurrection?
Paul told the Christians in Rome, Romans 6:3-4. So that must how you obey a death, burial and resurrection.
Paul also stated that being baptized is how one "puts on Christ" Galatians 3:27.
Paul also said that "in Christ" we have spiritual blessings (ie Prayer) in Ephesians 1:3. If you do not put on Christ, you are not IN Christ, therefore cannot have spiritual blessings.
Paul told Titus, in Titus 3:5, washing of regeneration, AND renewing of the Holy Spirit, which seems to go in hand with 1 Peter 3:21 and Acts 2:38 and Acts 22:16 (Pauls own baptism)
While I just mentioned it, Paul was baptized by Ananias Acts 22:16 "arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins..."
But it's not JUST Paul, it's Peter too.
Acts 2 Shows Peter saying, "repent AND be baptized" in order to have "for remission of sins and the Holy Ghost". Acts 2:38
Peter also had Cornelius and his friends and household baptized in Acts 10:47-48 "can any man forbid them water" and they were baptized.
Another thing to note, is that same Peter, also said this 1 Peter 3:20-21.
Most importantly, Jesus is also on the same page when He said, Mark 16:16; Matthew 28:19-20; John 3:5.
Examples of Baptism:
- Jesus' Baptism Matthew 3:13-17
- Day of Pentecost Acts 2:22 and 36-47
- Samaria Acts 8:4-13
- Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:26-39
- Paul(Saul) Acts 9:1-20 and 22:6-16
- Cornelius Acts 101-48 and 11:1-18
- Lydia Acts 16:13-15
- Many Corinthians Acts 18:8
- Philippian Jailer Acts 16:25-33
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Albion
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FWIW, every time this subject comes up, the opponents of infants and young children being baptized manage to insist that the Christians who believe in this practice (which is most of them) think that (water) Baptism is in all cases absolutely necessary for salvation OR they insist that those who believe in it think that receiving the sacrament guarantees salvation! But as with this thread here, the fact is that they have not defended either of these ideas.
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1213
Disciple of Jesus
It was used for to make people disciples of Jesus. I think we should continue to do that.
Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Mat. 28:19-20
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Guojing
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Water baptism was required for the Jews to be saved under the Gospel of the Kingdom. Gentiles were always excluded from salvation then in time past, we were without God and without hope. (Ephesians 2:11-12)
But now, a new Gospel has been revealed to Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, where salvation can now be for the Gentiles thru faith alone in Christ's death burial and resurrection. Water baptism is no longer required under this new Gospel.
Of course, you can still go ahead and be water baptized as a public declaration of faith to your unsaved family and friends, but its like speaking in tongue or tithing. Even if you don't speak in tongues or tithe, you are still saved.
But now, a new Gospel has been revealed to Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, where salvation can now be for the Gentiles thru faith alone in Christ's death burial and resurrection. Water baptism is no longer required under this new Gospel.
Of course, you can still go ahead and be water baptized as a public declaration of faith to your unsaved family and friends, but its like speaking in tongue or tithing. Even if you don't speak in tongues or tithe, you are still saved.
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There's a doctrine of baptismS,..." (Heb 6:2)
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." I John 5:7-8
There are 3 baptisms; specifically:
1 - By The Holy Spirit into Jesus is the baptism for salvation (blood baptism)
(Rev 1:5; Matt 26:28; Mark 1:4, 16:16; Luk 3:3; 1 Cor 12:13: Acts 2:38: Gal 3:27, +++)
Water and Spirit baptism follows - not in a set order:
2 - By another believer (water baptism) (Matt 28:19++++!)
3 - By Jesus with or into The Holy Spirit (The Spirit baptism)
(Matt 3:11; Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16; Acts 11:16++++)'
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." I John 5:7-8
There are 3 baptisms; specifically:
1 - By The Holy Spirit into Jesus is the baptism for salvation (blood baptism)
(Rev 1:5; Matt 26:28; Mark 1:4, 16:16; Luk 3:3; 1 Cor 12:13: Acts 2:38: Gal 3:27, +++)
Water and Spirit baptism follows - not in a set order:
2 - By another believer (water baptism) (Matt 28:19++++!)
3 - By Jesus with or into The Holy Spirit (The Spirit baptism)
(Matt 3:11; Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16; Acts 11:16++++)'
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