klutedavid
Well-Known Member
I'm using your source.I quoted brittanica, as in encyclopedia there of... oh I get it, you want me to only consider your sources. Last I checked Israel was part of the middle east.
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I'm using your source.I quoted brittanica, as in encyclopedia there of... oh I get it, you want me to only consider your sources. Last I checked Israel was part of the middle east.
You can find this information within seconds of a web search.
Ancient And Religious Calendar Systems
The Near East and the Middle East
The lunisolar calendar, in which months are lunar but years are solar—that is, are brought into line with the course of the Sun—was used in the early civilizations of the whole Middle East, except Egypt, and in Greece. The formula was probably invented in Mesopotamia in the 3rd millennium BCE. Study of cuneiform tablets found in this region facilitatestracing the development of time reckoning back to the 27th century BCE, near the invention of writing.
Like a kid uses a coat hanger and imagines he's a conductor of an orchestra.I'm using your source.
It says that the religious calendar was lunar.there was never a solar calendar in Israel.
Newly Deciphered Dead Sea Scroll Reveals 364-Day Calendar
One issue that was contested among different ancient Jewish sects was which calendar to use. While members of the Jerusalem Temple and the Hasmonean dynasty used the lunar calendar, the Qumran community used a 364-day calendar, as exemplified by Scroll 4Q324d recently published by Ratson and Ben-Dov. The scholars elaborate on the difference between the lunar calendar and the Qumran calendar in a University of Haifa press release:
The lunar calendar, which Judaism follows to this day, requires a large number of human decisions. People must look at the stars and moon and report on their observations, and someone must be empowered to decide on the new month and the application of leap years. By contrast, the 364-day calendar was perfect. Because this number can be divided into four and seven, special occasions always fall on the same day. This avoids the need to decide, for example, what happens when a particular occasion falls on the Sabbath, as often happens in the lunar calendar. The Qumran calendar is unchanging, and it appears to have embodied the beliefs of the members of this community regarding perfection and holiness.
Israel resides within the whole of the Middle East right? (brittania) The Qumran community was part of the Jewish religious sects of Israel, yes? The 364 day calendar is a solar calendar, no? The dead sea scrolls identify the Qumran community also used a 364 day calendar, no? (biblical archeology society)Isn't the discussion regarding this about Israel specifically? You should provide evidence of calendar usage in Israel specifically.
How sad. To claim that the closer one gets to Israel/Judaism the farther one gets from our own Messiah. You do realize you're saying the closer you get to Moses, Israel, and the Jewish way of living the further you get from the Holy One of Israel? Don't you realize the heart God has for Israel? Have you not read? Has the Spirit not impressed upon you the love and desire for Israel to be restored?Something that I have noticed.... the deeper into Moses a soul gets, the further from Christ he gets, though he does not realize it.
How sad. To claim that the closer one gets to Israel/Judaism the farther one gets from our own Messiah. You do realize you're saying the closer you get to Moses, Israel, and the Jewish way of living the further you get from the Holy One of Israel? Don't you realize the heart God has for Israel? Have you not read? Has the Spirit not impressed upon you the love and desire for Israel to be restored?
If you know that God loved you so much that he sent his only begotten son to die in your place to removed all your sins. Can you not find it in your heart to let God do this for his first born? Those born from the seed of Abraham? And if God found such mercy to reach you where you were at, not shaming you into first changing who you where, why wouldn't you offer the same spirit of mercy to Israel?
If God's heart is for good and blessings, why would you speak evil of the ones he loves first an foremost? And didn't Paul teach against doing this very thing? Do you imagine Paul saying what you said? Would you claim Paul just didn't realize how far he had fallen from Messiah when he proclaimed the holiness of the law and the irrevocable calling upon the Jewish people in regards to it?
Yet you would have us forsake our fathers and our heritage so we might embrace your Christ? sigh...since 49ad...Rome...
So your point is similar to klute's? To focus on a section of the whole so as to diminish a portion? Messianic Judaism exists to build up and speak life to Israel. We see plainly the age old promise in the scriptures regarding our restoration. And the closer our cleansing gets the closer the church's approaches too. The closer our restoration comes the closer the closing of the time of the gentiles and a refocus back on Israel will and is happening. The nations are supposed to be bringing us back to the land as first fruits of a huge harvest. But the church has usurped the identity of Israel and her blessing while heaping the remaining curses all upon Israel.God does love the Jewish people, Shimshon.
But the dangers of getting deeply into Mosaic Law is something that Saint Paul touched on, too.
Regardless of the sources we know that at a minimum the months were calculated from a lunar perspective. This is true using a lunar calendar or even a lunisolar calendar.Like a kid uses a coat hanger and imagines he's a conductor of an orchestra.
Some major faux pas' you have going here. First, you are supposed to prove the response false. Instead you attack the validity of the source by posting what you believe is counter to my response. This only diminishes the veracity of your own claims. Meaning, why should we believe my quotes when they are 'unassumingly' in direct opposition to yours. And since they are both from the same source this means the source is itself in question.
Even if your point were true you taint your proof by using the very source that claims otherwise. But this is only the construct of your own bias. Your quotes do not actually prove my quotes wrong. In fact they verify it. Which leads me to the second point.
The link I posted claims the lunisolar calendar was used in the early civilizations of the whole Middle East, except Egypt and Greece. By your posting that the Jewish religious calendar was lunar in now way disqualifies the fact that the whole of the Middle east used a LUNIsolar calendar. Meaning, your are only proving the very point itself. "Ancient and Religious calendar systems of the Middle East"...
It doesn't say;
It says that the religious calendar was lunar.
You sir still have to prove that Israel NEVER had a solar calendar. This is your claim and you're the one who has to provide the evidence. I'm not here to prove you wrong, you need to prove your claim is true. Instead of spouting how we need to do research on the lunar calendar. While displaying ignorance to the very source in question.
The source (brittania) claims otherwise. It claims the whole ME used a lunisolar calendar. And your rebuttal only proves them right. They claim Israel (within the whole ME) observed a luniSOLAR calendar. You say they never. Of course they observe a lunar. Prove brittania wrong and show how Israel 'never' had a solar calendar. Don't just prove they had a lunar one. Then claim victory.
Do my research on the Jewish lunar calendar? Do your research on the lunisolar calendar. I found this information in 15 seconds. And after spending 15 minutes on this topic you can search "Dead Sea Scrolls Solar Calendar" and find just what I am saying. Proof there was a solar calendar 'within' Israel alongside of a lunar one.
For some authorities yes, and I never argued that. But for other priests (Qumran) they followed the solar calendar, according to the evidence found within the dead sea scrolls.The Sabbath day was reckoned from the perspective of a lunar month and not from a solar month.
You seem confused about the information in the previous quotations.For some authorities yes, and I never argued that. But for other priests (Qumran) they followed the solar calendar, according to the evidence found within the dead sea scrolls.
You first claimed Israel never did such a thing. Are you willing to accept that certain communities within Israel functioned a solar calendar as well? Confirming brittanica's quote that the solar calendar existed throughout the whole of the ME. Or will you continue to prop up this strawman as a distraction for your false claim?
The quotation from Britannica said the following.Are you willing to accept that certain communities within Israel functioned a solar calendar as well
I do not understand why you called me dishonest?Thank you for proving to me that you are completely dishonest. Good day.
Thank you for proving to me that you are completely dishonest. Good day.
The word 'circumcision' is a general term describing the Jews, care to look at the verses below which proves this usage.
Ephesians 2:11
Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” (Jews) which is performed in the flesh by human hands.
Colossians 4:11
And also Jesus who is called Justus; these are the only fellow workers for the kingdom of God who are from the circumcision (the Jews).
Romans 15:8-9
For I say that Christ has become a servant to the circumcision (Jews) on behalf of the truth of God to confirm the promises given to the fathers, and for the Gentiles to glorify God for His mercy; as it is written.
The calculation of the beginning of a Jewish month and the days counted from the first day of the lunar month.
Not special festivals (Moedim).
What I am talking about is the fact that Israel in the Old Testament, calculated the Sabbath days after the observance of the new moon. Israel used a lunar calendar not a solar calendar which is the calendar that Rome used.