Virginia teen was detained and prosecuted for saying 'OINK OINK' to cop

rjs330

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That really depends on what you mean by "police brutality". A lot of behavior that people call "police brutality" isn't....which is why it doesn't get prosecuted.




That's certainly possible...though I don't recall any stats on it.

How many convicted cases of police brutality were there last year? Or the year before? Or before that?

I was trying to find a study on this, but there is not a lot out there. I did find one that was done in Virginia a while back that studied use if force and how many times use of force was found to be excessive. The amount that was found to be excessive was 5% or less.

I think we'd all agree that we like it to be zero or at least close to that. So at least by that study it showed that it was a very small minority of cases that we're excessive. When dealing with human beings in high stress, high adrenaline, volatile, violent circumstances it seems to me that 5% is pretty small in use of force circumstances.

People need to keep in mind that this is NOT 5% of police contacts. It's 5% of use of force situations were police have to use force to arrest someone, prevent an attack or escape etc.
 
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Arcangl86

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That really depends on what you mean by "police brutality". A lot of behavior that people call "police brutality" isn't....which is why it doesn't get prosecuted.
That could be as much as prosecutors not wanting to alienate the police and have to deal with "blue flu" as them being in the right.
 
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SummerMadness

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That could be as much as prosecutors not wanting to alienate the police and have to deal with "blue flu" as them being in the right.
Or the cases where the police officer is only prosecuted after the video becomes public. In some cases, they wish to hide videos from the public because they don't want the public to see police misconduct. Considering that most police officers say they have seen excessive force and most of them do nothing about it, it's cause for concern.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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OldWiseGuy

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Many cops are 'fed up' and at the 'tipping point' of anger (thanks to a system that doesn't seem to work very well for anyone). Best not to provoke them. We're dealing with human beings not robocops. ;)
 
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Ana the Ist

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The OP is a good example.

Of police brutality? Why?


We're not going on convicted cases given that the police don't convict their own.

The OP was "perfectly legit" police work according to that standard.

What are we going on then? Your personal opinion?
 
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Ana the Ist

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That could be as much as prosecutors not wanting to alienate the police and have to deal with "blue flu" as them being in the right.

Could be...it could also be that the majority of accusations come from people facing charges and they hope to get out of them by accusing cops.
 
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Of police brutality? Why?

If everything north of minor resisting arrest is called an "assault" on a policeman then the police assaulted (by the same standard) the boy in the story story by:

"They picked him up, slammed him to the ground, dragged him aggressively to their car" for saying something the policeman didn't like.

Not only was the boy assaulted by the cop he was also prosecuted for daring to speak his mind.
 
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Ana the Ist

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If everything north of minor resisting arrest is called an "assault" on a policeman then the police assaulted (by the same standard) the boy in the story story by:

Lol sorry....police are given authority to use force as a part of their job. The general rule is to look at the subject they are arresting and then assume the cop can use more force than the subject to arrest them. Is the subject walking away from the police? Then the police can use force to prevent that....as in this case.


Not only was the boy assaulted by the cop he was also prosecuted for daring to speak his mind.

He was prosecuted for obstruction of justice....which doesn't seem to have anything to do with what he said.
 
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Lol sorry....police are given authority to use force as a part of their job. The general rule is to look at the subject they are arresting and then assume the cop can use more force than the subject to arrest them. Is the subject walking away from the police? Then the police can use force to prevent that....as in this case.

He was prosecuted for obstruction of justice....which doesn't seem to have anything to do with what he said.

He arrested someone because they offended him. The courts then prosecuted that person for not coming along quietly. Along the way officer basically physically assaulted him.

There is one word for what happened.

Abuse.

What you saw is abuse of a minor and abuse of power, and yet you proudly defend it.

That's all I really need to know from you for now.
 
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As much as I'd like to believe the unbiased account of his friend on scene....you'll need some actual evidence to support this.

Go watch the tape. The kid is sitting down when the incident started. The police account had him starting a riot.
 
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I did watch the video....it doesn't show the entire encounter.

Yeah I'm sure that almost riot totally happened and wasn't a fabrication.

It sure seemed like that kid sitting there was a menace that needed to be immediately arrested.

It sure looks there like that's an officer who was in fear of their life... Or, perhaps it's exactly what it looks like, an overzealous police officer roughing up a kid because he had his feelings hurt.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Yeah I'm sure that almost riot totally happened and wasn't a fabrication.

It sure seemed like that kid sitting there was a menace that needed to be immediately arrested.

All we have are a few moments before he was arrested.

I'm not going to say it's impossible that the cops didn't just arrive on scene and the video starts moments afterwards....it's possible.

It's also possible the cops arrived on scene, tired to resolve the incident for 10-15mins....all the video shows is 11 seconds of it.

So when I say that you don't know ...what I mean is, you don't know.
 
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All we have are a few moments before he was arrested.

I'm not going to say it's impossible that the cops didn't just arrive on scene and the video starts moments afterwards....it's possible.

It's also possible the cops arrived on scene, tired to resolve the incident for 10-15mins....all the video shows is 11 seconds of it.

So when I say that you don't know ...what I mean is, you don't know.

We know there was no riot, and that officer there didn't do what they did because they feared for their life.

Beyond that their story is basically suspect from beginning to end.

Regardless, prosecutors not only didn't question the police tactics in this case, but instead took their word for gospel and brought the kid up on charges.
 
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Ana the Ist

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We know there was no riot, and that officer there didn't do what they did because they feared for their life.

The officers never said "riot".

Beyond that their story is basically suspect from beginning to end.

Why? Because you have less than a minute of footage and the words of his friend?

Regardless, prosecutors not only didn't question the police tactics in this case, but instead took their word for gospel and brought the kid up on charges.

Maybe they had a bodycam. Maybe they had a witness.

Maybe they know criminals lie to try and avoid consequences.
 
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The officers never said "riot".

The officers testified that he was provoking violence in court.

It's why he was charged with a crime.

In the courtroom, Stamos described a vastly different scene from the one in the video. “They started cheering on the defendant who was saying things to the officer, causing the others to provoke potential violence,” she said in the hearing, arguing that’s what led to James’s arrest. “That’s what the obstruction charges talk about, that it [sic] causing others to be put in harm’s way. They were cheering him on and circling the police officer.”

But do keep up the non-stop apologetics for whatever the police do. In this case I am calling them liars.

I don't believe their version of events because it is nonsense.
 
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The officers testified that he was provoking violence in court.

It's why he was charged with a crime.



But do keep up the non-stop apologetics for whatever the police do. In this case I am calling them liars.

I don't believe their version of events because it is nonsense.

"They started cheering on the defendant who was saying things to the officer, causing the others to provoke potential violence...."

So you have a video that briefly shows the defendant....not the other people on the scene. We know at least one person was positioned diagonally behind the officer, he was shooting the video.

"That’s what the obstruction charges talk about, that it [sic] causing others to be put in harm’s way. They were cheering him on and circling the police officer.”

We know the video is suspiciously short....we know it shows the defendant resisting arrest. You think that might be because the guy shooting the video edited out anything that might support the officer's story?

Here's the ironic part of this...I know some of the basic tactics taught to police to reduce risk. The most important one is to watch the subjects' hands. The second most important is to not let subjects behind you (closely followed by not standing right in front of them). If subjects start resisting (or encouraging resistance) a cop needs to put a stop to it immediately or risk losing control of the situation.

I get that you don't like cops....you mistakenly believe they don't have a dangerous job, and they react too harshly in situations you think they shouldn't.

Perhaps it's worth considering that the tactics they use, the level of force they use, and the way they use them are exactly what keeps the numbers of serious injuries and deaths relatively low. If they did their job the way you wanted....where resisting subjects can fight their arrests and circle behind into the blind spots of officers, they might have a higher rate of serious injury and death. Perhaps when you have no way of knowing where the dangers of your job will come from....you look for indicators that might give you a clue that you might be in danger. You know, indications like "Is this person cooperating or resisting?" or "is this group of people becoming increasingly uncooperative?" or "why are people in this group of uncooperative subjects circling around behind me?"
 
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