Should the Ayatollahs be targeted?

[Gregory Thompson]

Mass deception is built upon investing in time. Adding falsehoods little by little as years go by as people accept them as part of life.

Yep make a frog explode by slowly raising the temperature in the water type thing.

 

[timewerx]

That's often what happens in democracies: All choices are bad, some are just less bad than others.

Your choices are often limited to candidates who are greedy for money and power.

Money is often at the center of it. Those with the most money are those who gets ahead.

It happens because most people love money and the love of money is the root of all evil.. So there we go.

We live in an evil world so this is kinda expected - 1 John 5:19

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Either that, or the West will see a reaction in the coming decades to bring back sanity and morality.
The fact that large parts of Europe are starting to rise up, slowly but surely, could hint at this.
Macron certainly heard the people sing, and patriots generally got good elections in the recent election to the European Parliament.

The future is difficult to tell, and I'm a sceptic. But it's not completely hopeless. There's still a chance.

Yep, there's always hope, as long as we breathe.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Either that, or the West will see a reaction in the coming decades to bring back sanity and morality.
The fact that large parts of Europe are starting to rise up, slowly but surely, could hint at this.
Macron certainly heard the people sing, and patriots generally got good elections in the recent election to the European Parliament.

So you think having a fiercely nationalistic patchwork of countries in Europe being mistrustful and fearfull of each other and outsiders is preferable to open commerce, common currency, shared research and free movement of goods and people.

Think we have tried it for couple of millenia and it has not really worked all that well.

Traveling is getting easier, faster and cheaper all the time. Languages are slowly losing meaning as translating gear and english become more common means of communication. Information is easier to get than ever before. People move, ideas move, nation states lose meaning as does terms like being a patriot which is a great way for governments to control people.

If you think few right wing populists can turn this around I have some swamp land I can sell to you.

 

[DanishLutheran]

So you think having a fiercely nationalistic patchwork of countries in Europe being mistrustful and fearfull of each other and outsiders is preferable to open commerce, common currency, shared research and free movement of goods and people.

Take your strawman and shove it where the sun doesn't shine: Under the couch

If you think few right wing populists can turn this around I have some swamp land I can sell to you.

Please read the entire thing
It is a few patriots.....for now. As people become more aware of the desire to destroy their countries, their cultures, and eradicate their history and people, expect the number of patriots to grow in number and confidence

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

It is a few patriots.....for now. As people become more aware of the desire to destroy their countries, their cultures, and eradicate their history and people, expect the number of patriots to grow in number and confidence

This is certainly what will happen. Probably explains all the new Indian wars happening in US right now. Oh wait they are not happening.

You have a funny idea that somehow taking in new ideas will destroy your identity. Even if it changes you or your nation how is that new nation any less worthy than the one you are living in now ?

Because you fear it will be ? Because there are more people there who think differently then you do now ?

You are welcome to fight against the inevitable change driven by forces far beyond your control. This is on par of stopping technological progress by throwing your shoes on machinery. Useless.

 

[DanishLutheran]

This is certainly what will happen. Probably explains all the new Indian wars happening in US right now. Oh wait they are not happening.

1: Because there was no "indian identity" or "indian nation" in the area that now constitutes the US
2: There aren't enough Indians left to do much of anything.

It honestly always amuses me when people in favor of mass immigration and destroying nations, point to the Indians, and think they're making a case for mass immigration, when in fact they're making the exact opposite case
And the rest of that post until the next one quoted wasn't worth a response.

You are welcome to fight against the inevitable change driven by forces far beyond your control. This is on par of stopping technological progress by throwing your shoes on machinery. Useless.

You....do know that people said the exact same thing about the collapse of the USSR, the French Revolution, the American Revolution (which, quite frankly, shouldn't have been able to succeed, but did), etc?
Marxist theory might speak about the inevitability of the march of history in one particular direction.
Reality tends to disprove it.

 

[paul1149]

I don't know the details of the latest sanctions, but I do know that the only thing the immoral Iranian thugocracy will respect is strength. The previous president cut a deal where we gave them untold billions of dollars, completely negating the pressure of the earlier sanctions, and guaranteed that Iran would have nuclear weapons in a short number of years (not that they ever left off nuclear development anyway). Forum rules prevent me from expressing what I think about that. What Trump is doing is far better. It takes guts, which is probably why so many other world "leaders" do not understand it.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Because there was no "indian identity" or "indian nation" in the area that now constitutes the US

Why all this identifying as a citizen of nation state ? Do you somehow feels less secure, or more incomplete if you can not say I am Danish ?

Would you feel bad about thinking your grandson living in asteroid belt being part of something called Solar Federation in time when old nation states were just a note in pages of history like

Kalmar Union - Wikipedia

Should totally have kept that and we would have Ikea from Sweden and the oil trust fund from Norway.
Denmark...well, Denmark has the legoland so something for the children.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

thugocracy

Love that term.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

What Trump is doing is far better. It takes guts, which is probably why so many other world "leaders" do not understand it.

You just lost 220 million dollar surveillance drone and only guts Trump showed was a feeble "maybe it was a mistake by somebody"

This has just about the same amount of guts he had when dealing with North Korea. Lots of bluster about devastation and fiery gospel and then it ends with "I had a sweet letter from Kim " and nothing happens.

 

[redleghunter]

How should we Christians pray about this? Your comments are welcome. Peace in Christ.

I believe we should continue to pray for our brothers and sisters in Christ in Iran. Pray that no matter the reactions of the mullahs, that the Gospel shine forth and as it was in the beginning bringing eternal Hope to countless through Jesus Christ.

 

[paul1149]

You just lost 220 million dollar surveillance drone and only guts Trump showed was a feeble "maybe it was a mistake by somebody"

This has just about the same amount of guts he had when dealing with North Korea. Lots of bluster about devastation and fiery gospel and then it ends with "I had a sweet letter from Kim " and nothing happens.

A) the drone wasn't worth that amount. the program it was part of is.

B) Many people continually judge Trump rashly, not understanding that he is a master negotiator. Sometimes restraint is the best policy, while you continue to put your game pieces in order. And regarding NK, tectonic plate shifts are taking place behind the scenes, particularly regarding resetting China's place in the world. Without understanding that context you cannot interpret Trump's actions re. Kim correctly - or, for that matter, Kim's actions.

This is the last I will say on this topic, because I am beyond tired of the endless wrangling with people who do not, or will not, understand.

 

[redleghunter]

I don't know. Imho less stability in the Middle East would be a crummy thing. Even a cruel, controlling government seems like a better option than chaos and terrorism. I don't see how this won't likely lead to an actual war.

In 2009 where many Arab nations had their 'uprisings', Iran had their own after a disputed election. The Western reaction to Iran's Green Revolution vs the popular uprising in Egypt were quite different:

https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/M...Iran-Green-Revolution-for-nuclear-deal-522585​

 

[redleghunter]

We cannot have a democracy in a society where general population is uneducated and unable to make wise and moral decisions. South America, Africa, muslim countries.

Powerful (not too cruel) monarch who is trained and educated for such position seems to be a better choice for such population.

Iran does not fit this description. Or perhaps did not. It was a very sophisticated society before the mullahs, albeit still under autocrat rule. The war with Iraq depleted perhaps an entire generation of males and that must be considered in the formula of how we target sanctions.

 

[redleghunter]

That's true. The Shia hate the Sunni. Although, forces of ISIS are still prevalent ISIS as a state has ceased. That probably lessens the credibility of Iran as an opponent of terror. It's alleged support of Hamas and Hezbollah is still dangerous.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...hat-actually-happened/?utm_term=.19a1150b28b7

Good points. Iran's Quds fought/fight ISIS because ISIS was getting in the way of their interior lines to support and project terror through Hamas and Hezbollah.

 

[redleghunter]

A famous philosopher pointed this out.

Most voters indeed only knew very small information about people they're voting for. Most votes are indeed uneducated guesses.

Only few people in this world practice discernment.

When a nation's institutions do not support democracy, transforming to a democratic government is, I agree, most difficult. We saw this in the Iraqi elections after the fall of Saddam. The masses voted but voted for their factions leaders. The "European model" of democracy the UN likes to promote is not working in Iraq. They would have been better off with the American Republic model where the minority has a voice.

 

[redleghunter]

So you think having a fiercely nationalistic patchwork of countries in Europe being mistrustful and fearfull of each other and outsiders is preferable to open commerce, common currency, shared research and free movement of goods and people.

Add to the above 'shared debt' and you come close. Should Germany and France share in the failure of Greece and Italy?

 

[redleghunter]

This is certainly what will happen. Probably explains all the new Indian wars happening in US right now. Oh wait they are not happening.

You have a funny idea that somehow taking in new ideas will destroy your identity. Even if it changes you or your nation how is that new nation any less worthy than the one you are living in now ?

Because you fear it will be ? Because there are more people there who think differently then you do now ?

You are welcome to fight against the inevitable change driven by forces far beyond your control. This is on par of stopping technological progress by throwing your shoes on machinery. Useless.

I think these arguments will be purely academic in 20 years or fewer. The birth rates in European nations have been in a nose dive for decades...until recent mass immigration. The immigrants from outside of Europe are having multiple children and they will rule your future.

 

[redleghunter]

It honestly always amuses me when people in favor of mass immigration and destroying nations, point to the Indians, and think they're making a case for mass immigration, when in fact they're making the exact opposite case

Indeed...The native American nations should have built a big beautiful wall once the ships from Europe showed up and never left.