Should the Ayatollahs be targeted?

[mukk_in]

In a wave of fresh new sanctions against Iran (in retaliation for downing an armed US drone over international waters) the Treasury department has targeted Iran's Ayatollah and his office. The foreign minister of Iran will be sanctioned soon. The Ayatollahs have long been suspected of aiding and abetting Hamas, Hezbollah, PLO and the likes. Given that the Ayatollah of Iran is their Supreme Leader, is this a good move? I think it is. Immediate outrage not withstanding, it'll weaken the religious zealots who're probably robbing the Iranian people of a genuine democratic republic. How should we Christians pray about this? Your comments are welcome. Peace in Christ.

Here are some links:
New US sanctions on ayatollah mean the end of diplomacy, Iran says

Trump signs executive order slapping 'hard-hitting' sanctions on Iran over drone shootdown

Iran–Palestine relations - Wikipedia

Iran Supports Hamas, but Hamas Is No Iranian ’Puppet’

 

[anna ~ grace]

I don't know. Imho less stability in the Middle East would be a crummy thing. Even a cruel, controlling government seems like a better option than chaos and terrorism. I don't see how this won't likely lead to an actual war.

 

[trophy33]

I don't know. Imho less stability in the Middle East would be a crummy thing. Even a cruel, controlling government seems like a better option than chaos and terrorism. I don't see how this won't likely lead to an actual war.

We cannot have a democracy in a society where general population is uneducated and unable to make wise and moral decisions. South America, Africa, muslim countries.

Powerful (not too cruel) monarch who is trained and educated for such position seems to be a better choice for such population.

 

[mukk_in]

Thanks for the responses. But I must say that all people deserve democracy. Whether it's the form of government they desire is for them to choose. Illiteracy alone shouldn't disqualify any populace from the fruits of liberty.

India has a large illiteracy rate of 26%. That's about 300 million uneducated people (as of 2011). That's about four times the Iranian population. Yet, democracy (with all its problems) has been thriving in India for 72 years!

Literacy in India - Wikipedia

Demographics of Iran - Wikipedia

IMO, no leader should decide the fate of any people. They should be free to choose.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Given that the Ayatollah of Iran is their Supreme Leader, is this a good move? I think it is. Immediate outrage not withstanding, it'll weaken the religious zealots who're probably robbing the Iranian people of a genuine democratic republic.

Bit thick considering last time they had a "genuine democratic republic" US and it`s allies pulled it down and then installed a cruel dictator in place and now you enjoy the fruits of that....

Anyway targeting leaders is probably a fine instrument of pressure.

Hitting everything with Trump`s name on it and making deadly threats against people doing business with Trump clan should make US pull their forces out of the Middle East pretty fast for "preserving peace or strategic reasons".

Wonder what is preventing Iran from doing that. Then we can see how Trump attempts to arrange security for all of his golf guests and how he would balance the interests of his businesses against that of his country.

I presume the country would take the easy second place.

 

[timewerx]

Iran and its allies are actively involved in the fight against ISIS.

Things are not so simple in that region.

 

[mukk_in]

Bit thick considering last time they had a "genuine democratic republic" US and it`s allies pulled it down and then installed a cruel dictator in place and now you enjoy the fruits of that....

Anyway targeting leaders is probably a fine instrument of pressure.

Hitting everything with Trump`s name on it and making deadly threats against people doing business with Trump clan should make US pull their forces out of the Middle East pretty fast for "preserving peace or strategic reasons".

Wonder what is preventing Iran from doing that. Then we can see how Trump attempts to arrange security for all of his golf guests and how he would balance the interests of his businesses against that of his country.

I presume the country would take the easy second place.

Does Iran do much business with Trump and family? With the ongoing sanctions they're barely able to eat, let alone challenge the President.

 

[mukk_in]

Iran and its allies are actively involved in the fight against ISIS.

Things are not so simple in that region.

That's true. The Shia hate the Sunni. Although, forces of ISIS are still prevalent ISIS as a state has ceased. That probably lessens the credibility of Iran as an opponent of terror. It's alleged support of Hamas and Hezbollah is still dangerous.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...hat-actually-happened/?utm_term=.19a1150b28b7

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Does Iran do much business with Trump and family? With the ongoing sanctions they're barely able to eat, let alone challenge the President.

How much financing do you need to get few guys to decapitate some golf players ? Then make a proclamation that since US is supporting massacres in Yemen and Trump is personally advocating selling more arms to Saudi Arabia the terror campaign will target any possible people doing business with Trump.

That should make few people to think about where to take their next vacation and which hotel room to rent.

 

[timewerx]

Thanks for the responses. But I must say that all people deserve democracy. .

For most countries, democracy is just a formality. It doesn't really exist.

If only those with most money and power/influence/connections gets their agenda done, that's not democracy.

If more qualified people or ideas doesn't get done because of lack of money/influence/connections, that's not democracy.

Tyranny / dictatorship has many forms, not just one.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

For most countries, democracy is just a formality. It doesn't really exist.

I can see that as more of uneducated democracy. Most of the people voting do not really research things or people they vote to power.

 

[mukk_in]

I can see that as more of uneducated democracy. Most of the people voting do not really research things or people they vote to power.

People don't need education to be smart. I hate saying this but as a PhD, I've seen more dumber PhD's without basic sense who had been rebuked by so called illiterate town folk...lol. Democracy does work, even for the masses. Some top businessmen and celeb businesswomen were barely educated. The likes of Steve Wozniak, Dhirubhai Ambani..etc. People can reason with their God given intellect. Education only broadens it. But you do have a point. Most people go with the flow and don't reason things out for themselves.

 

[mukk_in]

For most countries, democracy is just a formality. It doesn't really exist.

If only those with most money and power/influence/connections gets their agenda done, that's not democracy.

If more qualified people or ideas doesn't get done because of lack of money/influence/connections, that's not democracy.

Tyranny / dictatorship has many forms, not just one.

That's true too. Whether democracy works or not wasn't the question, but that they had a choice.

 

[timewerx]

I can see that as more of uneducated democracy. Most of the people voting do not really research things or people they vote to power.

A famous philosopher pointed this out.

Most voters indeed only knew very small information about people they're voting for. Most votes are indeed uneducated guesses.

Only few people in this world practice discernment.

Worse, most people are easily manipulable with mass / entertainment media in dictating what's good or bad for them. And if you have lots of money, you can buy the media for such purposes - to manipulate and deceive people.

People will believe mass / entertainment media without using any discernment. It's been built up for decades. Very hard to get out of such false teaching without reading the Bible without any biases.

If you're a Christian and love things in this world, one thing is certain. You don't read your Bible enough or deceived by false teachings of mass/popular media.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I don't know. Imho less stability in the Middle East would be a crummy thing. Even a cruel, controlling government seems like a better option than chaos and terrorism. I don't see how this won't likely lead to an actual war.

What if a cruel and controlling government is funding and engaging in chaos and terrorism?

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

People don't need education to be smart. I hate saying this but as a PhD, I've seen more dumber PhD's without basic sense who had been rebuked by so called illiterate town folk...lol. Democracy does work, even for the masses.

By uneducated I mainly mean not researching the issues.

How many americans are aware of the recent history of the Middle East and how many factions are at play and what their motives are ?

Do they use their time to search out answers or is it just easier to get on with desensitizing message of ; Mullahs are crazy, Muslims are crazy and most of the Iranians are muslims so they are probably crazy too and let God sort em out and if it takes few casualties (Governments like to always say it will be a short victorious war with few casualties) while keeping neighbourhood Boeing cruise missile assembly line working that uncle Joe supervises it is all good and other stuff is fake news anyway.

 

[mukk_in]

By uneducated I mainly mean not researching the issues.

How many americans are aware of the recent history of the Middle East and how many factions are at play and what their motives are ?

Do they use their time to search out answers or is it just easier to get on with desensitizing message of ; Mullahs are crazy, Muslims are crazy and most of the Iranians are muslims so they are probably crazy too and let God sort em out and if it takes few casualties (Governments like to always say it will be a short victorious war with few casualties) while keeping neighbourhood Boeing cruise missile assembly line working that uncle Joe supervises it is all good and other stuff is fake news anyway.

I agree with you on that. Most people are too lazy to reason for themselves. I made that point in the previous response. We need more responsible and mature democracies.

 

[timewerx]

That's true too. Whether democracy works or not wasn't the question, but that they had a choice.

Giving someone a choice but only supplying very limited information about the choice they're making isn't really a choice.

That's deception.

 

[mukk_in]

Giving someone a choice but only supplying very limited information about the choice they're making isn't really a choice.

That's deception.

A technicality. But at least they have a say. At least, they have a choice (free will) to be deceived as opposed to being denied any say. I'll have to disagree with you and will leave you with your opinion.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

What if a cruel and controlling government is funding chaos and terrorism

Well we know what US did with the Talibans.

War in Afghanistan (2001–present) - Wikipedia

Eighteen years and trillion + dollars and you are losing ground there.

Or talking about terrorist supporters Saudi Arabia is there on the top. And what do you do ? Sell them more weapons and support them politically.

So there are plenty of ways to deal with governments that are funding chaos and terrorism.

Also it is a matter of perspective. US aiding Syrian rebel jihadists against the legal Syrian government could certainly be seen as "funding chaos and terrorism".