State Rights issue? Re: Coming ICE raids

rambot

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Redac

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I don't remember American history as well as some but wasn't the whole civil war thing supposed to be that State rights trump national rights?
Clearly not, but even if we wanted to take that tack with this, you've also forgotten that the "State's Rights" side of that conflict lost.
 
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rambot

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Clearly not, but even if we wanted to take that tack with this, you've also forgotten that the "State's Rights" side of that conflict lost.
Who cares if they lost? I'd like to think America is stable enough that they wouldn't go to war over an immigration issue.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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Who cares if they lost? I'd like to think America is stable enough that they wouldn't go to war over an immigration issue.

We were stupid enough to have to fight a war to decide if owning people as property is a bad thing.
 
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Hank77

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If my daughter was assaulted in a mall parking lot, the perp. was caught, in the courthouse standing trial, and the only witness that could identify the perp. was an illegal immigrant, I wouldn't want ICE arresting them before they testified.
That kind of thing is what seems to be the problem for the court and for prosecutors.
 
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Arcangl86

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If my daughter was assaulted in a mall parking lot, the perp. was caught, in the courthouse standing trial, and the only witness that could identify the perp. was an illegal immigrant, I wouldn't want ICE arresting them before they testified.
That kind of thing is what seems to be the problem for the court and for prosecutors.
Or witnesses refusing to come forward because they think if they testify in court they will be deported on the way out.
 
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rambot

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We were stupid enough to have to fight a war to decide if owning people as property is a bad thing.
There were people who, at that time DID thing it was a good thing though.

I didn't htink that there were adults who thought that kids should be kept like that. I mean, the government would remove children from their parents care if the PARENTS kept them in those conditions.....
 
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iluvatar5150

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rjs330

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I'd be okay with this as long as all things were equal. In other words if the states wanted to allow illegals in they could, but they don't get any Federal money to use for taking care of them in any fashion.

Then states that didn't want illegals wouldnt have to do anything for illegals. They also wouldn't have to take in anyone that hasn't been cleared by the government to be able to stay.

I think that would be fair.
 
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Fantine

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I think that the decision to become a "sanctuary city" or not should reside with the states and their municipalities. a

Some areas, especially large cities, have found that hardworking young immigrants are an economic asset that revitalizes their economy. Just ask the residents of Queens, NY, whose houses are being purchased by immigrants at unbelievably high prices (your typical "Archie Bunker All in the Family" home sells for $700K plus).

And hey, maybe they're right. What "color" are the states that always wind up on the bottom for income, health care, education and quality of life? The red states of the deep south. Their attitude towards immigrants may be a contributing factor.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Massachusetts federal judge blocks ICE from making civil immigration arrests inside state's courthouses - CNNPolitics

I can't help but think that perhaps the South would be all OVER this as a state right issue, right? I don't remember American history as well as some but wasn't the whole civil war thing supposed to be that State rights trump national rights?

They lost that war...and federal law supercedes state law.

ICE says PG County released illegal immigrant murder suspects

In related news....why wouldn't they be cooperating with ICE? I'm not going to say they never make a mistake, but it's safe to say that we're at the very least talking foreign criminals who are here illegally.

Otherwise, why are they in state custody in the first place? Funsies?
 
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Pommer

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I'd be okay with this as long as all things were equal. In other words if the states wanted to allow illegals in they could, but they don't get any Federal money to use for taking care of them in any fashion.

Then states that didn't want illegals wouldnt have to do anything for illegals. They also wouldn't have to take in anyone that hasn't been cleared by the government to be able to stay.

I think that would be fair.
I’m pretty sure that even “illegal aliens” could sue under a 14th Amendment claim.
 
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Radagast

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I think that the decision to become a "sanctuary city" or not should reside with the states and their municipalities. a

Some areas, especially large cities, have found that hardworking young immigrants are an economic asset that revitalizes their economy. Just ask the residents of Queens, NY, whose houses are being purchased by immigrants at unbelievably high prices (your typical "Archie Bunker All in the Family" home sells for $700K plus).

I think you're confusing "immigrant" with "illegal immigrant."
 
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Radagast

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I’m pretty sure that even “illegal aliens” could sue under a 14th Amendment claim.

"14. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States..."

My reading of the 14th Amendment is that illegal aliens are entitled to "due process of law," but that's about it.
 
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Richard T

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State's rights are subordinate to federal government policy in certain areas. Even the southern states would recognize immigration status as a national government issue. The federal judge in this case, ordered ICE from making arrest in the courts. That is one place where witnesses and family members are known to show up. What the judge is trying to assert is that "everyone appearing in court has a common law privilege against civil arrests." In other words, the right to appear in court trumps the right of ICE to arrest such a person. It will be interesting to see whether this will hold up on appeal. There are interest groups that are constantly trying to expand alien rights such as ICE Out of Courts New York State Campaign - Immigrant Defense Project IT is interesting to note that 37% of aliens pending trial fail to appear before immigration courts. Courting Disaster
 
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Newtheran

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Massachusetts federal judge blocks ICE from making civil immigration arrests inside state's courthouses - CNNPolitics

I can't help but think that perhaps the South would be all OVER this as a state right issue, right? I don't remember American history as well as some but wasn't the whole civil war thing supposed to be that State rights trump national rights?

If you'll recall under President Obama when Arizona tried to make some matters of immigration enforcement a state matter, the courts ruled against them. So now, when ICE is enforcing (instead of ignoring) immigration law, that precedent applies. Federal borders, federal matter.
 
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NotreDame

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If you'll recall under President Obama when Arizona tried to make some matters of immigration enforcement a state matter, the courts ruled against them. So now, when ICE is enforcing (instead of ignoring) immigration law, that precedent applies. Federal borders, federal matter.

The facts of the case you reference are not parallel to these facts. The different facts casts doubt as to whether the former case is a controlling precedent here.
 
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