Serious Question, Does God hate "Some" people ?

[GenemZ]

The Hebrew root of that is not the word “evil”.

This is not the same as “Evil”

Evil does not flow from Righteousness.

Simple reason and full Scriptural understanding affirm this.

If I had a dollar for every verse that isn’t carefully studied!

The verse is, “I form the Light and Create Darkness”.... Peace and Calamity.

Are you correcting me?

I understand that. I have studied, sir. I was trying to explain for those who don't understand it. That when they read the word "evil" in some translations its not the same thing as a man or angel who is evil.


I said....

Evil was another way of saying 'disaster.'


That is where the second meaning I mentioned takes precedence.

The Hebrew word may be different. Yes.. But, those who read only English translations get tripped up at times and make an entire doctrine out of it.

 

[GenemZ]

I was talking about morally evil people, God loves all men even the wicked and evil.

Rather,... God loves all 'believers' who end up being wicked and evil. Yes... believers who become arrogant can get caught up in thinking and being evil. Just look at Balaam! Look at King Saul, who wanted to murder David.. and sought out the witch of Endor.

But, God does not love unbelievers who become implacable and have chosen with resolve to follow after evil and wickedness. God's WRATH is being stored for such as those.

 

[Grip Docility]

Are you correcting me?

I understand that. I have studied, sir. I was trying to explain for those who don't understand it. That when they read the word "evil" in some translations its not the same thing as a man or angel who is evil.


I said....



The Hebrew word may be different. Yes.. But, those who read only English translations get tripped up at times and make an entire doctrine out of it.

I apologize for coming off as correcting. I was following your train of thought.

I was fairly certain, by your initial statement that you didn’t believe God created Evil.

I was following that assumption and moving forward with your train of thought.

As for doctrines built on the wrong assumption... that was the basis of my “if I had a dollar” comment.

 

[mdamon0501]

I don't necessarily agree that Scripture teaches that God "hates" any of his creation. I think particularly the Old Testament, tries to lay out the idea that God inflicts wrath in many ways, and in many forms.

The first I could recall in my mind from the scripture is God inflicting wrath upon individuals, in hopes that they might turn back to him after first turning away. Certainly plenty of Psalms have much to say on this topic, as well as books of the New Testament, for instance Romans 1:21-24:

For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.

Isaiah certainly has a lot to say about this, and Job too.

A second reason which Paul, doesn't really state as fact, but speculates is that sometimes God will inflict wrath upon the righteous in order to better demonstrate his glory, in reference to the famous "Potters freedom" verses.

Romans 9:22-24

What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make his power known, endured with patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom he also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.

A third reason is for whole scale judgement on a particular people, even a group of his righteous ones. Somewhere for instance it is referred to the Assyrians as "the axe to be wielded." We also see in many of the Old Testament prophecy the idea that God raises up entire hordes of foreign enemies to descend upon Jerusalem.

I really don't think God "hates" his created things, he Loves them, hence the famous lines of (John 3:16)

I think that we fall into error when we assume that the method by which God demonstrates his love is somehow to be measured by a human standard, when the Love of God is often not demonstrated in the ways in which we expect it to be.

Personally I will testify that God had to utterly crush my soul before I witnessed to his glory, am I then to reject the precursory method by which he saved me?

 

[ewq1938]

Genesis 29:30-31 "And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years. And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren."

Hated means loved less than.

No, the Hebrew word means to hate. Leah was hated.

Gen_29:32 And Leah conceived, and bare a son, and she called his name Reuben: for she said, Surely the LORD hath looked upon my affliction; now therefore my husband will love me.

 

[TheSeabass]

No, the Hebrew word means to hate. Leah was hated.

Gen_29:32 And Leah conceived, and bare a son, and she called his name Reuben: for she said, Surely the LORD hath looked upon my affliction; now therefore my husband will love me.

The context (Genesis 29:30-31) says Rachel was loved MORE than Leah and that is called 'hated'.

Luke 14:26 is one to literally, emotionally hate, detest, despise mother, father, wife, children or love them less than God (Matthew 10:37)?

 

[GenemZ]

I don't necessarily agree that Scripture teaches that God "hates" any of his creation.

"God so *loved* the world that He gave His only
begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him
should not perish, but have everlasting life."​

It does not say...

"God so *loves* the world that He gave His only
begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him
should not perish, but have everlasting life."​

God does not hate any of his creation as He created it to be.
It does not say that God so *loves* the world. But, past tense. That He loved the world.

This creation was lost in the fall of Adam. God loved that creation as he had created it to be.
Loved it so much He was willing to sacrifice His only begotten son as His means to gain its perfection back! Back, to restore it to what He always wants it to be.

I don't necessarily agree that Scripture teaches that God "hates" any of his creation.

"Do not love the world or anything in the world.
If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is
not in them." 1 Jn 2:15​

Now He must hate it as it is. For He is a Holy God. Those who believe He restores and establishes a New Creation in Christ. That, He does love. All that is in the creation outside of His redemption is all destined to be burned up and destroyed. Destroyed before being replaced by the new perfect world - the Home of Righteousness.

The love we are to be filled with is 'agape' love. Its impersonal love. Its the love that makes us relaxed to find ourselves living in an evil world. Its a love that makes into an oasis of happiness in a world frantically seeking happiness that can never be found outside of God's provision. Yes... God does grant certain unbelievers a vain happiness for the sake of those who are His and are being faithful, as to produce stability in their nation. But, only if His own are being faithful to Him. These faithful are the 'salt of the earth.' They act as a preservative of their nation.

 

[GenemZ]

The OT was written in Hebrew. Jesus spoke Aramaic. The NT is written in Greek. I'm not sure if you understand this.

Matthew was written originally in Hebrew/Aramaic.

 

[mdamon0501]

"God so *loved* the world that He gave His only
begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him
should not perish, but have everlasting life."​

It does not say...

"God so *loves* the world that He gave His only
begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him
should not perish, but have everlasting life."​

God does not hate any of his creation as He created it to be.
It does not say that God so *loves* the world. But, past tense. That He loved the world.

This creation was lost in the fall of Adam. God loved that creation as he had created it to be.
Loved it so much He was willing to sacrifice His only begotten son as His means to gain its perfection back! Back, to restore it to what He always wants it to be.

"Do not love the world or anything in the world.
If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is
not in them." 1 Jn 2:15​

Now He must hate it as it is. For He is a Holy God. Those who believe He restores and establishes a New Creation in Christ. That, He does love. All that is in the creation outside of His redemption is all destined to be burned up and destroyed. Destroyed before being replaced by the new perfect world - the Home of Righteousness.

The love we are to be filled with is 'agape' love. Its impersonal love. Its the love that makes us relaxed to find ourselves living in an evil world. Its a love that makes into an oasis of happiness in a world frantically seeking happiness that can never be found outside of God's provision. Yes... God does grant certain unbelievers a vain happiness for the sake of those who are His and are being faithful, as to produce stability in their nation. But, only if His own are being faithful to Him. These faithful are the 'salt of the earth.' They act as a preservative of their nation.

Actually the word for love in John 3:16 is in the Aorist tense and is indicative. It does not therefore specify any time period, past, present, or future. It is general, all encompassing, it doesn't denote tense in the English sense.

 

[GenemZ]

Actually the word for love in John 3:16 is in the Aorist tense and is indicative. It does not therefore specify any time period, past, present, or future. It is general, all encompassing, it doesn't denote tense in the English sense.

Not going to argue your exegesis...
Just the same, if what you claim were true? It does indicate taking place in a point in time. And, we do know? Anyone loves the world today? It says the love of the Father is not in him. God does not love the present world.

 

[mdamon0501]

Wel that's the point of the tense if the verb in the sentence. It is not a past, present, or future. It would be the same thing as saying: What does God love? The answer to which is: the world. What demonstration of his love is there? That he sent his son to die. For what reason did he have to die? So that all who believe would have everlasting life.

 

[GenemZ]

Wel that's the point of the tense if the verb in the sentence. It is not a past, present, or future. It would be the same thing as saying: What does God love? The answer to which is: the world. What demonstration of his love is there? That he sent his son to die. For what reason did he have to die? So that all who believe would have everlasting life.

God's love for the world?
Had to precede the Cross.
For, the Cross was the result of God's love.

Logic dictates an order. God is not illogical.

The Aorist tense is something that took place in a point in time. Then remains being in that point of time. Its like taking a photograph.

You have been saved by grace. You were saved in a point of time, and that point of time remains being in that point of time. It never stops being in that point of time. = forever saved!

But, I would be pretentious to try to involve myself in an exegetical sword fight here. My pastor was a Greek and Hebrew scholar for over fifty years. I leave such arguments with those truly qualified.

 

[mdamon0501]

God's love for the world?
Had to precede the Cross.
For, the Cross was the result of God's love.

Logic dictates an order. God is not illogical.

The Aorist tense is something that took place in a point in time. Then remains being in that point of time. Its like taking a photograph.

You have been saved by grace. You were saved in a point of time, and that point of time remains being in that point of time. It never stops being in that point of time. = forever saved!

But, I would be pretentious to try to involve myself in an exegetical sword fight here. My pastor was a Greek and Hebrew scholar for over fifty years. I leave such arguments with those truly qualified.

I get what your saying about the speech in 1 John, but part of me feels that these passages are referring to the gift of the Holy Spirit, and not necessarily making a possessive case that "Love of God" is somehow reserved for just those whom he predestined.

1 John 2:15

Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

This is the line which you are referencing, and I don't want to be too exegetical about it, since I am not a master of Greek myself, however, if I take this and proof read it with verses later in the chapter, I find this verse:

1 John 3:17

But whoever has the world’s goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?

The idea of this love "abiding" in believers, is seen all throughout the New Testament, and is most notably in reference to the Holy Spirit.

Finally in Chapter 4 we see the clarification of what the writer intends by this language:

1 John 4:9

By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him.

Again, "manifested in us" a reference to the Holy Spirit. All I see in 1 John happening is that, as in Hebrews, and Romans, and Ephesians, and all over the place in the New Testament, is the idea that those who have saving faith, demonstrate such, by showing the gifts of the Holy Spirit, which are given by the Father, to those of us who were predestined from creation, to be to the glory of the Father, through Jesus Christ.

This isn't the writer claiming that God only loves the elect.

 

[GenemZ]

I get what your saying about the speech in 1 John, but part of me feels that these passages are referring to the gift of the Holy Spirit, and not necessarily making a possessive case that "Love of God" is somehow reserved for just those whom he predestined.

1 John 2:15

If we don't know? We do not resort to our feelings. We need to find out.

Now that I know you are not a skilled exegetical scholar... we need to get back to what those who are skilled were able to determine. That being.... "God so loved the world. " Past tense can be the result of the syntax of the entire passage.

If you ever want to begin studying exegetical teachings on a seminary level, but while sitting in a pew? I would recommend to give this a shot. R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries — Home

You can spend about thirty years of *daily* teachings.. He used to teach daily to his congregation who desired such teaching. It is rare to find, and the demand was very high. https://rbthieme.org/PDF/LessonListingForWeb2014.pdf

How much will it cost you? Nothing, if you find such a need to do so. R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries — Home

You will learn that the Greek and Hebrew texts require a great amount of experience and knowledge to rightly handle. Simply looking up words in word studies are only a means to feed the hunger, not to satisfy it. There is way too much to know.

 

[mdamon0501]

If we don't know? We do not resort to our feelings. We need to find out.

Now that I know you are not a skilled exegetical scholar... we need to get back to what those who are skilled were able to determine. That being.... "God so loved the world. " Past tense can be the result of the syntax of the entire passage.

If you ever want to begin studying exegetical teachings on a seminary level, but while sitting in a pew? I would recommend to give this a shot. R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries — Home

You can spend about thirty years of *daily* teachings.. He used to teach daily to his congregation who desired such teaching. It is rare to find, and the demand was very high. https://rbthieme.org/PDF/LessonListingForWeb2014.pdf

How much will it cost you? Nothing, if you find such a need to do so. R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries — Home

You will learn that the Greek and Hebrew texts require a great amount of experience and knowledge to rightly handle. Simply looking up words in word studies are only a means to feed the hunger, not to satisfy it. There is way too much to know.

I'm not sure what difference it makes if someone who Loves the word of God studies Greek in their spare time or not. Are there not folks on this Earth who spend their free time trying to create nuclear reactors in their garages? There are plenty of ways to study Greek outside of a seminary brother. Just because it says "loved" doesn't mean it is the English past tense, and that we can make sweeping theological determinations about it. There is a Proverb about this somewhere that I will find eventually. I never claimed to be a Greek scholar, but even if I was I would never wield a PHD over any believer like a crushing stone.

Nevertheless this is off topic, it doesn't change the fact that the theme of 1 John is not about who God does and does not love, but about the evidences of the Holy Spirit in believers.

Or that the term "God So Loved" is referring to the method by which God expressed his love.

 

[mdamon0501]

Correction, it wasn't a Proverb, it was something the Lord said during the Woes:

Matthew 23:23-24

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; But these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.

You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

 

[ewq1938]

The context (Genesis 29:30-31) says Rachel was loved MORE than Leah and that is called 'hated'.

He loved Rachel and did not love Leah. Loving someone more does not automatically mean there was any love for the hated one. By her own words she wanted a child so her husband would love her showing that at the time he did not love her.

 

[GenemZ]

I'm not sure what difference it makes if someone who Loves the word of God studies Greek in their spare time or not. Are there not folks on this Earth who spend their free time trying to create nuclear reactors in their garages? There are plenty of ways to study Greek outside of a seminary brother. Just because it says "loved" doesn't mean it is the English past tense, and that we can make sweeping theological determinations about it.

Why must it be in the aorist? It means that God loved the world at a point in time.

If He loves it now? That would never be how it would be written.

Yes... you need to find a good Greek teacher and spend years of study. Your excuses are not valid.

 

[GenemZ]

He loved Rachel and did not love Leah. Loving someone more does not automatically mean there was any love for the hated one. By her own words she wanted a child so her husband would love her showing that at the time he did not love her.

When Jesus said that we must 'hate' our own family members? Its was in the sense as when someone hates broccoli. You just don't want it and will pass the plate, and will have a strong reaction if someone tries to force you eat some.

That hate spoke in relation to a believer choosing between the Lord's leading, or family members. One must choose. If a family member differs and wants you to think differently? You pass the broccoli without hesitation.

 

[StillGods]

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