Why the Antichrist cannot be the Muslim Mahdi

[Chris35]

I always thought it was something like this.

Jewish dont believe in Jesus as messiah and are still waiting for their messiah.

Mahdi (Muslim Messiah / anti christ)
Dajjal ( Jewish messiah they are waiting for)
Isa ( Jesus)

Dajjal - Messiah the jews are waiting for, probably start animal sacrafices again cause under moses law.

Mahdi battles Jewish messiah thinking he is antichrist and wins, ends animal sacrafices, takes Israel.

 

[Chris35]

Sorry got that wrong

Mahdi (False prophet)
Isa (Anti - Christ)
Dajjal ( Messiah jewish belief is waiting for)

Or it could be other way around
Mahdi (Anti-Christ)
Isa(False Prophet)

Real jesus isnt coming back untill after the rule of the anti-christ.

 

[keras]

I pray for them (muslims), still... that many of them will turn their hearts from hate... but it indeed seems they (Islam) have made a deal with the Devil!

I know Israel will suffer once more... but she indeed will be turned from her unfaithful ways.

Didn't you read all of #39?
Bible prophecy is clear: Islam will be no more and the Jewish State of Israel will be decimated on the forthcoming Day of the Lord's fiery wrath.

Islam is not mentioned in the Bible at all, it is just another false religion, that will be gone and when the AC comes to power, he will enforce worship of himself. Revelation 13:11-17
Your belief of a general redemption of the Jews is also wrong and unbiblical.
That idea is a tenet of the 'rapture to heaven' of the church, theory. Neither will happen.
The sad fact is that all the apostate and Jesus rejecting citizens of Israel will die Isaiah 22:12-14, Luke 19:27, and only a Messianic remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27

 

[Grip Docility]

Didn't you read all of #39?
Bible prophecy is clear: Islam will be no more and the Jewish State of Israel will be decimated on the forthcoming Day of the Lord's fiery wrath.

Islam is not mentioned in the Bible at all, it is just another false religion, that will be gone and when the AC comes to power, he will enforce worship of himself. Revelation 13:11-17
Your belief of a general redemption of the Jews is also wrong and unbiblical.
That idea is a tenet of the 'rapture to heaven' of the church, theory. Neither will happen.
The sad fact is that all the apostate and Jesus rejecting citizens of Israel will die Isaiah 22:12-14, Luke 19:27, and only a Messianic remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27

I read your post. I musunderstood. I do not believe in "General Redemption" of anyone, as all have a choice to make. (Romans 10 and Romans 11 ... Especially Romans 11:25-36 ... as well as Joel 2:12)

As for your claim that Islam doesn't root in scripture... I first point you to the wild Donkey of a man... Ishmael... then point you to easily researched facts...

I loath using Wikipedia... but it is quick and in reference to a false Abrahamic religion... so... here you are.

Judges 8:21 "Crescent Ornaments" Islamic flags - Wikipedia

Deuteronomy 16:21 "Asherah Poles" Ashura in Morocco - Wikipedia

Acts of the Apostles 19:24 "Diana ; Artimus"
Is the Crescent Moon a Symbol of Islam as Is Widely Believed?

The Psalms confederation should be the dead give away.

There is so much more... but it's the same Devil, same religious ideas, with just another name.

Egypt X1
Asyria X1
Babylon X1
Persia X1
Greece X1 Five were fallen at the time...

Rome (Of the time)

Ottomon (One is yet to come) (Only fell apx. 100 years ago)

All of these lorded over physical Israel...

Revelation 17:9-11

The 8th will be of the 7... yet for a little while...

Mixed nations that are unified by Religion, yet in disagreement..... (Daniel 2:31-45)

THE ROCK SMASHES THE FEET (Zechariah 14:4) 10 toes, 10 diadems. (Revelation 17:12 ; Daniel 2:35 ; Daniel 2:41-42)

Daniel assumes the reader knows of the first 2 nations that ruled over Israel.
The 10 horns are the 10 toes of the nation of the beast.

Israel is not the harlot of Babylon. She is the forgiven harlot that the 8 lord over, but Mystery Babylon is a Religious confederacy that boasts it is greater than God.

Jesus is God, and Yet Islam Boasts Allah is greater than ALL GOD's and Mohammed is the final Prophet. (Shahada) (There is no god but God. Muhammad is the messenger of God.....) Allah has no SON. Allah is most definitely NOT Elohim!

I'm not changing my mind just yet. And every word I just typed is referenced without effort to Islam and the literal Geography of scripture and the 7 beast nations. Seek out where the synagogue of Satan Geographically sets, referenced in Revelation.

 

[NeedyFollower]

I read your post. I musunderstood. I do not believe in "General Redemption" of anyone, as all have a choice to make. (Romans 10 and Romans 11 ... Especially Romans 11:25-36 ... as well as Joel 2:12)

As for your claim that Islam doesn't root in scripture... I first point you to the wild Donkey of a man... Ishmael... then point you to easily researched facts...

I loath using Wikipedia... but it is quick and in reference to a false Abrahamic religion... so... here you are.

Judges 8:21 "Crescent Ornaments" Islamic flags - Wikipedia

Deuteronomy 16:21 "Asherah Poles" Ashura in Morocco - Wikipedia

Acts of the Apostles 19:24 "Diana ; Artimus"
Is the Crescent Moon a Symbol of Islam as Is Widely Believed?

The Psalms confederation should be the dead give away.

There is so much more... but it's the same Devil, same religious ideas, with just another name.

Egypt X1
Asyria X1
Babylon X1
Persia X1
Greece X1 Five were fallen at the time...

Rome (Of the time)

Ottomon (One is yet to come) (Only fell apx. 100 years ago)

All of these lorded over physical Israel...

Revelation 17:9-11

The 8th will be of the 7... yet for a little while...

Mixed nations that are unified by Religion, yet in disagreement..... (Daniel 2:31-45)

THE ROCK SMASHES THE FEET (Zechariah 14:4) 10 toes, 10 diadems. (Revelation 17:12 ; Daniel 2:35 ; Daniel 2:41-42)

Daniel assumes the reader knows of the first 2 nations that ruled over Israel.
The 10 horns are the 10 toes of the nation of the beast.

Israel is not the harlot of Babylon. She is the forgiven harlot that the 8 lord over, but Mystery Babylon is a Religious confederacy that boasts it is greater than God.

Jesus is God, and Yet Islam Boasts Allah is greater than ALL GOD's and Mohammed is the final Prophet. (Shahada) (There is no god but God. Muhammad is the messenger of God.....) Allah has no SON. Allah is most definitely NOT Elohim!

I'm not changing my mind just yet. And every word I just typed is referenced without effort to Islam and the literal Geography of scripture and the 7 beast nations. Seek out where the synagogue of Satan Geographically sets, referenced in Revelation.

Hello Brother ..I am not an eschatological person for the most part but by nature I try to be open to having a different point of view ...well since Jesus changed my view point anyway . I will pose my question to you at the end .

Two horns like a lamb (christian ) but spake as a dragon . ( selfish )
Synagogue meant assembly or bringing together so was not necessarily only Jewish .
Humanism , i.e ..the rights of man is another form of man worship ...making man a god sitting himself in the place of god so that he himself is worshiped . ( get behind me satan for thou savorist not the things which be of God but the things which be of MAN . ) Herein is wisdom ...666 ....the number of a man .

Israel was one man ( Jacob ) but became many and is often personified as individual in the Old Testament .
Jesus was a man but became many ( the church ..the one body )

Could the anti-christ be also a body and not an individual whereas many are looking for a man of sin rather than THE man of sin ? The most scholarly jews did not recognize the Messiah . I wonder if we are not recognizing the anti-jesus due to his two horns like a lamb ? We are looking for a non -christian and a person . Has fire ever been made to come down from the sky ?

 

[Grip Docility]

Hello Brother ..I am not an eschatological person for the most part but by nature I try to be open to having a different point of view ...well since Jesus changed my view point anyway . I will pose my question to you at the end .

Two horns like a lamb (christian ) but spake as a dragon . ( selfish )
Synagogue meant assembly or bringing together so was not necessarily only Jewish .
Humanism , i.e ..the rights of man is another form of man worship ...making man a god sitting himself in the place of god so that he himself is worshiped . ( get behind me satan for thou savorist not the things which be of God but the things which be of MAN . ) Herein is wisdom ...666 ....the number of a man .

Israel was one man ( Jacob ) but became many and is often personified as individual in the Old Testament .
Jesus was a man but became many ( the church ..the one body )

Could the anti-christ be also a body and not an individual whereas many are looking for a man of sin rather than THE man of sin ? The most scholarly jews did not recognize the Messiah . I wonder if we are not recognizing the anti-jesus due to his two horns like a lamb ? We are looking for a non -christian and a person . Has fire ever been made to come down from the sky ?

Brother... the codex Vaticanus renders 666 differently. The numbers were factored out for easy print, but the actual rendering looks more like this...

The End element of deception involves a Body of followers, a false Prophet and the Anti-Christ

The rendering of number of the beast can also be understood “the multitude of the beast”.

Islam has a false prophet that is a false Jesus they recognize as Isa. Isa will eliminate Christianity and Jews... as well as all people that don’t submit to Islam.

Islam also has a figure that is their Messiah... they are very serious about it!

The Body of Islam is already associated with rape, pillage, murder and beheading.

This is my opinion and is not fact. Search in prayer and with perpetual openness to Christ’s leading.

Islam has never intended less than global domination... and they have their own Laws (Sharia)

The Hadith and the Quran confirm this.

One last thing... Muslims are people Christ died for, as well. Let us not hate those that hate.

This is non essential doctrine.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you!

 

[NeedyFollower]

Brother... the codex Vaticanus renders 666 differently. The numbers were factored out for easy print, but the actual rendering looks more like this...

The End element of deception involves a Body of followers, a false Prophet and the Anti-Christ

The rendering of number of the beast can also be understood “the multitude of the beast”.

Islam has a false prophet that is a false Jesus they recognize as Isa. Isa will eliminate Christianity and Jews... as well as all people that don’t submit to Islam.

Islam also has a figure that is their Messiah... they are very serious about it!

The Body of Islam is already associated with rape, pillage, murder and beheading.

This is my opinion and is not fact. Search in prayer and with perpetual openness to Christ’s leading.

This is non essential doctrine.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you!

Of course Christians can not be eliminated by Isa , only sent to the throne room .


I am looking for a form of christianity which makes us hate our enemies thereby making us forget that while we were yet sinners and enemies of God , Christ died for us .
This would be the two horned lamb that spoke like a dragon .

Well yes ...America and professing christians ( and most every country ..including ancient Israel , Spain and others are guilty of rape , pillage , murder and beheadings and genocide ) so nothing new there .

And love to you my brother ...I just didn't think a muslim would fool anyone who knows Jesus . Not very subtle . I think Satan deceives us most as an angle of light . Don't get fooled . Wise as serpents and harmless as doves . I am more concerned with an american Jesus who is nothing like Jesus .

 

[Grip Docility]

Of course Christians can not be eliminated by Isa , only sent to the throne room .


I am looking for a form of christianity which makes us hate our enemies thereby making us forget that while we were yet sinners and enemies of God , Christ died for us .
This would be the two horned lamb that spoke like a dragon .

Well yes ...America and professing christians ( and most every country ..including ancient Israel , Spain and others are guilty of rape , pillage , murder and beheadings and genocide ) so nothing new there .

And love to you my brother ...I just didn't think a muslim would fool anyone who knows Jesus . Not very subtle . I think Satan deceives us most as an angle of light . Don't get fooled . Wise as serpents and harmless as doves . I am more concerned with an american Jesus who is nothing like Jesus .

I fancy Islam THEE named, and associate the truth that you have spoken as one of the many anti christs of deceit that Christ warned us about.

Brother, I feel your well spoken point deep within my heart.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you.

 

[keras]

I'm not changing my mind just yet. And every word I just typed is referenced without effort to Islam and the literal Geography of scripture and the 7 beast nations. Seek out where the synagogue of Satan Geographically sets, referenced in Revelation.

Sure, Islam is the main opposition to Christianity today. Plus many other major and minor false religion's.
They will ALL be gone on the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, as is plainly prophesied. The One World Govt that will be established after that terrible day will be secular, it is only when one powerful man rises to take dictatorial control and demands worship of himself, that another religion is started. Revelation 13:11-15, Daniel 11:36

From your posts, I get the impression that you believe in a general redemption of the Jewish people. This idea is not Biblical and contradicts many prophesies. Only those people who have chosen to believe in God and accept the Atoning sacrifice of Jesus, will be saved.
The majority of them, all faithful Christians, will actually be descendants of Jacob, from the ten Northern tribes of Israel. God knows who they are. Amos 9:8-9

 

[Grip Docility]

Sure, Islam is the main opposition to Christianity today. Plus many other major and minor false religion's.
They will ALL be gone on the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, as is plainly prophesied. The One World Govt that will be established after that terrible day will be secular, it is only when one powerful man rises to take dictatorial control and demands worship of himself, that another religion is started. Revelation 13:11-15, Daniel 11:36

From your posts, I get the impression that you believe in a general redemption of the Jewish people. This idea is not Biblical and contradicts many prophesies. Only those people who have chosen to believe in God and accept the Atoning sacrifice of Jesus, will be saved.
The majority of them, all faithful Christians, will actually be descendants of Jacob, from the ten Northern tribes of Israel. God knows who they are. Amos 9:8-9

I appreciate your response. I again, for the second time elevate the point that I do not believe in "General Redemption", but instead see the scriptural support for a road to Demascus for the Hardened Jews that will possibly spare many of the last day, through the example of their acceptance of Christ.

There will be many Jews and Gentiles, alike, on that day, that get "pressed like wine"... as God Trod's the Wine Press.

In the end... some people will reject Him and some people will fall before Him renting their hearts, before Him.

I'm not a universalist or a "general redemption" kind of guy.

 

[Douggg]

I always thought it was something like this.

Jewish dont believe in Jesus as messiah and are still waiting for their messiah.

Mahdi (Muslim Messiah / anti christ)
Dajjal ( Jewish messiah they are waiting for)
Isa ( Jesus)

Dajjal - Messiah the jews are waiting for, probably start animal sacrafices again cause under moses law.

Mahdi battles Jewish messiah thinking he is antichrist and wins, ends animal sacrafices, takes Israel.

Hi Chris,

If the Mahdi, the Muslim 12th Iman, battles the real biblical Antichrist - how can anyone claim the Mahdi is the biblical Antichrist as well?

i.e. the Mahdi Antichrist battles the Jewish (false messiah) Antichrist ?

Then when a person starts researching the end times prophecies in the bible - does it present the case of two Antichrist's battling one another? One a Jew, and the other a Muslim?

 

[keras]

I do not believe in "General Redemption", but instead see the scriptural support for a road to Demascus for the Hardened Jews that will possibly spare many of the last day, through the example of their acceptance of Christ.

Unfortunately; this belief too, is unscriptural.
Only people, incl Jews who have accepted Jesus NOW, will be saved.
Hardened and stiff necked Jews, who have had nearly 2000 years to get right with God will, according to over 20 prophesies, die on the Lord's Day of fiery wrath.

The only Jew who had a 'road to Damascus' experience was Paul. He had a special task and we 'Gentiles' are the beneficiaries of it. Now we Christians show the Jews the right Way, Romans 11:14, but they will have none of it.
What should God do with them? His righteous Judgment will remove them. Jeremiah 12:14 and only a few thousand will survive. Romans 9:27

 

[Douggg]

Unfortunately; this belief too, is unscriptural.
Only people, incl Jews who have accepted Jesus NOW, will be saved.

I think in your scenario, the great tribulation begins in the years following the cme event, when a new world order is created in the aftermath.

Currently there are Jews in every nation around the world. Around 60% of the world's Jewish population live outside of Israel. A cme event decimating the middle east would still not decrease 60% of the world's population of Jews.

Therefore, the Jews will be present during the new world order scheme you have assembled in your eschatology.

And out of that population, why can't Jews turn to Jesus during the great tribulation?

"You wrote... Only people, incl Jews who have accepted Jesus NOW, will be saved."

No one can be saved during the great tribulation? I would like to see you make a case for that.

 

[Grip Docility]

Unfortunately; this belief too, is unscriptural.
Only people, incl Jews who have accepted Jesus NOW, will be saved.
Hardened and stiff necked Jews, who have had nearly 2000 years to get right with God will, according to over 20 prophesies, die on the Lord's Day of fiery wrath.

The only Jew who had a 'road to Damascus' experience was Paul. He had a special task and we 'Gentiles' are the beneficiaries of it. Now we Christians show the Jews the right Way, Romans 11:14, but they will have none of it.
What should God do with them? His righteous Judgment will remove them. Jeremiah 12:14 and only a few thousand will survive. Romans 9:27

You’re forgetting Revelation and Romans 11.

 

[keras]

I think in your scenario, the great tribulation begins in the years following the cme event, when a new world order is created in the aftermath.

Not the GT of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, but the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster.
The event that will come 'like a thief' sudden and shocking everyone.
THAT will enable the OWG to be established.

Currently there are Jews in every nation around the world. Around 60% of the world's Jewish population live outside of Israel. A cme event decimating the middle east would still not decrease 60% of the world's population of Jews.

Therefore, the Jews will be present during the new world order scheme you have assembled in your eschatology.

Again you show your lack of Biblical knowledge.
The great and terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, is prophesied to make people scarce, Isaiah 24:6, people will die around the world, Jeremiah 25:33 It will kill all the people the Lord has doomed for punishment. Isaiah 66:15-17, 2 Thess 1:6

"You wrote... Only people, incl Jews who have accepted Jesus NOW, will be saved."

The Bible teaching is clear: Salvation is NOW. When the Lord comes in His Judgment and punishment, it is too late.

No one can be saved during the great tribulation? I would like to see you make a case for that.

Revelation 13:3-4 seems to prove my case. Probably a few individuals will have the courage to turn to God, but they will have their heads chopped off for it.

You’re forgetting Revelation and Romans 11.

Your are forgetting that the Israel of God is not the apostate and atheistic Jews, but every faithful Christian. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Galatians 3:26-29
Read: Hosea 12:2, Ezekiel 18:30-32, Isaiah 4:3-5, Isaiah 6:11-13, Isaiah 10:17-22

 

[Grip Docility]

Not the GT of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, but the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster.
The event that will come 'like a thief' sudden and shocking everyone.
THAT will enable the OWG to be established.

Again you show your lack of Biblical knowledge.
The great and terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, is prophesied to make people scarce, Isaiah 24:6, people will die around the world, Jeremiah 25:33 It will kill all the people the Lord has doomed for punishment. Isaiah 66:15-17, 2 Thess 1:6

The Bible teaching is clear: Salvation is NOW. When the Lord comes in His Judgment and punishment, it is too late.

Revelation 13:3-4 seems to prove my case. Probably a few individuals will have the courage to turn to God, but they will have their heads chopped off for it.

Your are forgetting that the Israel of God is not the apostate and atheistic Jews, but every faithful Christian. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Galatians 3:26-29
Read: Hosea 12:2, Ezekiel 18:30-32, Isaiah 4:3-5, Isaiah 6:11-13, Isaiah 10:17-22

Your opinion is that the BOC is Israel by namesake, and in my opinion are ignoring that Ephesians 2 Calls Christ the "NEW MAN" and thusly proofs that the BOC is an entirely NEW BODY.

Are we the Body of Moses? (Jude 1:9)

 

[Willing-heart]

The person who becomes the Antichrist, and then later as the beast of Revelation, will in the middle of the 7 years claim to be God and be worshiped by his followers.

How does that correspond to the Muslim eschatology and belief about the Mahdi.

Islam's hadith literature speaks of a seven-year peace covenant the Mahdi will make with the Romans - that is, the nation of Europe. Muhammad's prophecy in the Hadith says nothing about breaking the agreement after three and a half years. Of course, if the Mahdi is the Antichrist, he won't want to reveal his plans in advance.

 

[keras]

Your opinion is that the BOC is Israel by namesake, and in my opinion are ignoring that Ephesians 2 Calls Christ the "NEW MAN" and thusly proofs that the BOC is an entirely NEW BODY.

We Christians are the continuation of all the faithful people of God since Abel.
Israel was the name given to Jacob, as he prevailed for God. It literally means; One who overcomes Satan and is victorious for God. We see those Victorious ones in each of the 7 Churchs of Revelation.
In Isaiah 62:1-5, we will be given a new name and will live in our heritage of the holy Land. Colossians 1:12, Romans 9:24-26

Are we the Body of Moses? (Jude 1:9)

Huh? This verse has no relevance to the issue of who is the Israel of God.

BTW, I don't like the Satanic symbol in your avatar.

 

[Douggg]

Islam's hadith literature speaks of a seven-year peace covenant the Mahdi will make with the Romans - that is, the nation of Europe. Muhammad's prophecy in the Hadith says nothing about breaking the agreement after three and a half years. Of course, if the Mahdi is the Antichrist, he won't want to reveal his plans in advance.

Who is saying that about the 7 year peace covenant being in the hadiths? It sounds like a Christian source, imo, about what the muslims believe.

The confirming of the covenant for 7 years, it is widespread among Christian end times commentators that it is a peace treaty of some sort, involving Israel.

Which part of the rationale is based on Daniel 8:25, that the person
destroys many be peace.

However, the interpretation of it being a peace treaty in Daniel 9:27 is wrong.

Back in Moses's day, Moses made it a law that all future leaders will (in effect) confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on a 7 year interval on the feast of trumpets from the place of God's choosing, by making a speech addressing the nation of Israel that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel, as theirs forever. Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

The Antichrist, playing the part of the perceived Jewish messiah, will make the speech and begin the 7 years.

It is something the Mahdi would not, could not, do, obviously.

 

[Douggg]

Revelation 13:3-4 seems to prove my case. Probably a few individuals will have the courage to turn to God, but they will have their heads chopped off for it.

No, it is a huge number of individuals who will be saved during the great tribulation.

Revelation 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.