If you keep sinning after you are saved are you still saved?

Grip Docility

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"14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High."

This is not what ES teaches. No man can make himself like God, it is the power of the cross unto salvation.

This is accurate.

Amen.
 
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Hammster

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He chooses not to, for our reasons. For we must first believe that He is and that He is a rewarder to them that diligently seek Him.

If you believe, the sanctification you push to the future can take place now... You can be translated now and even bypass death... But it is only done unto you as you believe...

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

So what do you say? Do we want to continue experiencing sin and death, or shall we pass from death.....to life?
I’m not entirely sure how that relates to my post.
 
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RaymondG

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I'm a miserable sinner, and I have no intention to ever admit to be anything else. May I die, and Christ be praised.

You are the light of the world.....hidden in a bushel for so long that you've, in your mind, have become that bushel. Indeed, may the bushel die and the light be revealed....never to be hidden again... To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory

No more I, but Christ.... But I find no fault in the desire to remain "I the sinner"
 
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aiki

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If you keep sinning after yoluve been saved are you still saved? Jesus promises in John 6:37-40 to not lose one single believer but do believers continue to sin after they've been saved?

Of course, Christians still sin after they are saved. Have you not read the apostle Paul's first letter to the Corinthian Christians? Read chapters 3, 5, 6 and 11. In each of these chapters, Paul goes after various sins of which the Corinthian believers were guilty. But while Paul rebukes the Corinthians sharply about their sin, he makes it clear all throughout his letter to them that he thought of them as brothers and sisters in the faith. (1 Corinthians 2:1; 3:1; 3:9; 3:23; 6:2; 6:11; 6:15; 6:19-20, etc.) What's interesting to note in Paul's letter to the Corinthian believers is the severity of their sin - sin that some believers would tell you eliminates a Christian from God's family. The Corinthians were guilty of gross sexual sin, of strife and envy, of litigiousness, of idolatry, of greediness, and of perverting the purpose of the Lord's Supper. Yikes! But, they were still, in Paul's mind, brothers and sisters in Christ.

Like for example say you're caught in the same set of sins are you still saved?

Your salvation does not hinge on your good works (or lack thereof). (Ephesians 2:8-9, 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5) If you are genuinely saved and failing to overcome sin, it is usually as a consequence of a poor understanding of the faith. An apple tree that doesn't bear fruit is either too young to do so, or too undernourished, or diseased. The same is true for Christians. They may fail to bear good spiritual fruit because they are very new to the faith or have remained very spiritually immature, they may be undernourished spiritually (not feeding daily on God's word, neglecting prayer, not being discipled), or they are diseased spiritually by false doctrine. All of these things can seriously inhibit spiritual growth and the good works that arise inevitably from that growth.

Please understand, though, that a believer constantly yielding to sin is not normal, spiritually-speaking. It is common among believers, but it is not normal Christian living. Normal Christian living is victorious over sin; normal Christian living is holy and righteous; normal Christian living is characterized by constant joyful fellowship with God. Unfortunately, what is normal Christian living is not common Christian living.

Even if you cannot stop doing those same sins over and over again? Like say you like to use Christs name in vain a lot or if you swear a lot or if you're stuck in one particular sin is that person still given to Jesus by God the Father and eternally secure?

Your security in Christ has nothing to do with your performance. You are "accepted in the Beloved" (who is Christ - Ephesians 1:6) and only on this basis are you accepted by God. And because Christ is always accepted by God, you who are in him are also always accepted by God.
 
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Ronald

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If you keep sinning after yoluve been saved are you still saved? Jesus promises in John 6:37-40 to not lose one single believer but do believers continue to sin after they've been saved? Like for example say you're caught in the same set of sins are you still saved? Even if you cannot stop doing those same sins over and over again? Like say you like to use Christs name in vain a lot or if you swear a lot or if you're stuck in one particular sin is that person still given to Jesus by God the Father and eternally secure?

Your sins have been washed away. Not just past sins, all sins. Jesus/God forgives outside of our time domain which is a physical dimension. So spiritually you are pure as snow, so that if you died suddenly at any moment, your spirit would go directly to Jesus, pure.
HOWEVER, we still have the flesh and "sin dwells in the members of our flesh". Paul struggled with this in Romans. We have this dual nature, in which we are supposed to die to our old self, yet it's ugly head resurfaces or as some say, we backside. Sin still trips us up but it is not sin unto death (if we have been truly born again). Sanctification/transformation happens instantly with our spirit, but as for our flesh (still stuck in this physical dimension and sinful world), the Holy Spirit transforms our character/ behavior and helps us to mortify our fleshy desires when they surface.
Initially, yes we are like dirty rags that haven't really gotten with the program.
We don't all of a sudden act like saints. As we grow in the knowledge of our LORD and His WORD, we are transformed in time. But to God, not confined to time, it's a done deal. Its difficult to put our minds around this concept. He knows the beginning from the end.
We grow to hate our sin and avoid it. It requires honestly looking in the mirror and examining our thoughts and actions with a willingness to allow God to transform us into the likeness of Jesus. He makes us holy, we can't. And it requires life's experiences, lessons that we must go through to understand good and evil and how we must keep them separate.
If you read the book of John only and believed, got saved, would that mean you automatically know how to behave? No, but you start where you are and realize you must say no to your old ways. Sometimes a new believer is reluctant to die to himself, give up all his habits. So he tries to compromise with God. "I won't do these things anymore ... but these other things ... they are not so bad ... I'm not hurting anyone ... bla, bla, bla". And you go on trying to justify these things that you just can't let go of. Okay, then get ready for God to chastise you until you do. You will be taught a lesson, You'll have to learn the hard way. So do yourself a favor, stop sinning. For instance, you swear, and think that it's not so bad until you read God's Word that tells you to remove filthy language and to watch your tongue.
If you were a thief, you'll learn quickly not to steal. He is watching.
If you covet, you'll learn contentment.
If you were greedy, you'll learn to share and be generous.
If you were a compulsive liar, you'll learn to be truthful and so on.
To us, it all takes time. To God, it's done.
 
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Lords Man

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If you keep sinning after yoluve been saved are you still saved? Jesus promises in John 6:37-40 to not lose one single believer but do believers continue to sin after they've been saved? Like for example say you're caught in the same set of sins are you still saved? Even if you cannot stop doing those same sins over and over again? Like say you like to use Christs name in vain a lot or if you swear a lot or if you're stuck in one particular sin is that person still given to Jesus by God the Father and eternally secure?
Depends on what you mean by sinning. Nobody who is yet alive is without sin, even believers. We pray forgive us our debts (sins) and we know that whoever says he is without sin is a liar (Matthew 6:12; 1 John 1:8). On the other hand, whoever continues in sin as a usual practice, and does not repent of it, has not seen or known Christ rightly (1 John 3:6). He is not, and has never been, in Christ or saved.
 
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If you accept Romans 8:13 as it is given then why do you not accept Joshua 10:12-15 as given. Or Genesis 1:16, or many more of the verses in the Bible about God's creation.

Well, I fully accept Genesis 1:16, and Joshua 10:12-15 as they are written.
I do not believe in an allegorical interpretation on the creation account in Genesis 1.
I hold to a literal creation account. God created everything in six literal 24 hour days.
I also believe the miracles happened as written in the story of Joshua, as well. The sun literally stood still for Joshua, etc.; So I fail to see how these portions of Scripture help you to explain Romans 8:13 from a Belief Alone Proponent type perspective.

A basic normal reading on Romans 8:13 is supported by the context and by other cross references.

In Romans 8:13, "Live after the flesh is in reference to sin" is supported by the context:

#1. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).
#2. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin (Romans 6:6).
#3. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof (Romans 6:12).​

The word "flesh" has been used in reference to sin in Galatians 5:19.

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness," (Galatians 5:19).

In Romans 8:13, "Live after the flesh (sin) brings spiritual death" is supported by the context:

#1. But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; (Romans 2:8-9).
#2. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law (Romans 2:12).
#3. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. (Romans 11:22).​

In Galatians 5:19-21, Paul lists certain sins and he says that they that do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. The phrase "inherit God's kingdom" is talking about entering God's Kingdom and in being rewarded. To not "inherit God's kingdom" means one will not enter God's kingdom. For the word "inherit" is used elsewhere in the Bible as a reference to the sheep (the saints) who helped the poor in this life and they were told that they were going to inherit God's kingdom by their actions.

"Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: " (Matthew 25:34).

In Romans 8:13, "Putting to death the sinful deeds of the body by the Spirit brings eternal life (spiritual life)" is supported by the context:

#1. Yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God (Romans 6:13). "...become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Romans 6:22).
#2. So now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness (Romans 6:19). So might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 5:21).​

1 John 3:7 says be not deceived, he that does righteousness is righteous.

Grace reigns through righteousness (or righteous living) (Romans 5:21).

Proof?

Titus 2:11-12 says God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world.

Ephesians 5:25-27 says that the reason Christ died for us was to sanctify us with the washing of the water of the Word (Scripture) so that Christ may present to Himself a church that is holy, and blameless.

For Jesus agreed with the lawyer on the truth that we have to love God and love our neighbor as a part of inheriting eternal life (See Luke 10:25-28). We are told to walk after the Spirit and we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Galatians 5:16). For they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24). Note: I believe the point of our discussion that this can refer to grievous sin. So as to stay on topic: I am not talking about faults of character or minor transgression that the Bible does not condemn at this particular moment.

You said:
And if you do not, are you not sinning for not believing the account of Joshua 10 as given in the Bible. Did not the Hebrews also did not believe Joshua and Caleb's statements about the promise land and that God would give them this land. Instead the Hebrews believed the bad report (lie) and ended up in the desert for 40 years for sinning because they did not believe Gods word instead they took mans testimony over Gods.

So by you standards (at least the way i understand you) you have not stopped sinning and are placing your salvation at risk.

The Bible teaches that not all sin is the same.

Grievous sin would be lying, stealing, theft, hating, murder, etc.; The words "grievous sin" is taken from Genesis 18:20.​

Minor infractions or faults of character is another name for a "sin not unto death" (i.e. not unto death = not unto spiritual death or the second death) (Note: While the "sin not unto death" mentioned in 1 John 5:16 is in context to confessed sin in John's epistle (See: 1 John 1:9), it can be extended loosely to refer to the kind of sins that do not lead to spiritual death by it's very name).

"Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults."
(Psalms 19:12).​

Examples of Sins That Do Not Lead Unto Spiritual Death:

#1. 1 John 5:16-17 mentions the "sin not unto death."
In context to 1 John 5: This would be talking about confessed grievous sin that one is striving to overcome with the Lord's help (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9) (Romans 13:14). In 1 John 5, the brethren are praying for this believer to have victory (life) over their sin as this believer confesses their sin.

#2. Psalms 19:12 says, "Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults." I believe these would be faults of character or minor errors that a person might make with people. Example: A person may not be a great listener, and they do not allow others to speak like they should. By not listening to others may come off a little like they do not care (even though they care in their own way or a different way). Paul wanted to go to Jerusalem. The Spirit warned Paul not to go. He was still determined to go because he loved His fellow Jews and wanted them to know the love of Jesus. The Spirit told the brethren that Paul will be imprisoned by his going to Jerusalem. The brethren warned Paul not to go. They were in tears and loved him and begged him not to go. But Paul did not listen. He would not hear them. He did not want to hear it. Fault of character. Hidden fault. Minor error of his character. It is not something that condemned him (See Acts of the Apostles 21, and read this article here by Ray Stedman; Note: There is even a better write up than this one by Bible commentator James Boice here; Please keep in mind I do not share their views on Soteriology, though; I merely agree with their view on what happened with Paul in Acts of the Apostles 21).

#3. The Command to Be Baptized.
Paul says Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17). If it was essential to salvation, then why would Paul say something like this? In 1 Peter 3:21: Peter says baptism is not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh. If you were to turn to 2 Corinthians 7:1, you would see that it uses similar wording ("filthiness of the flesh") that is clearly in reference to sin. So Peter is saying that baptism is not for the putting away of "sin" [i.e. filth of the flesh]. In other words, baptism is not a command that if disobeyed, leads to spiritual death.

#4. Other Commands in the New Testament that do not seem like a major violation of loving God and loving your neighbor that have no death penalties attached to them. One example would be the command to Rejoice when men persecute you or falsely accuse you of evil in Matthew 5:11-12.

Real world examples: Going 5 miles per hour over the speed limit in area that is not life threatening to others. Not taking out the trash yesterday when it was a little stinky. These minor transgressions would obviously not send a Christian to hell.

But we as Christians strive to obey and do good in all things in the Lord. We strive to keep His commandments. For it is written,

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.' (1 John 5:3).​


Side Note:

Please understand that it is not possible for a person to obey God's commands without them first being saved by Jesus Christ and His grace (i.e. by seeking forgiveness of their sin with Him, and believing in His death, and resurrection on their behalf). For Christians are initially and ultimately saved by Jesus Christ.
 
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bmjackson

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Paul is arguing in Cor 3:1; 3:9; 3:23 6:2; 6:11; 6:15; 6:19-20, that this is their position in Christ legally, but shows in the rest of his dispute with them that they were not living in it. They were fleshy and Paul wants them to be spiritual.
 
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d taylor

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Saul committed murder right before he went to be with Samuel.

Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.”
 
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d taylor

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Well, I fully accept Genesis 1:16, and Joshua 10:12-15 as they are written.
I do not believe in an allegorical interpretation on the creation account in Genesis 1.
I hold to a literal creation account. God created everything in six literal 24 hour days.
I also believe the miracles happened as written in the story of Joshua, as well. The sun literally stood still for Joshua, etc.; So I fail to see how these portions of Scripture help you to explain Romans 8:13 from a Belief Alone Proponent type perspective.

A basic normal reading on Romans 8:13 is supported by the context and by other cross references.

In Romans 8:13, "Live after the flesh is in reference to sin" is supported by the context:

#1. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).
#2. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin (Romans 6:6).
#3. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof (Romans 6:12).

The word "flesh" has been used in reference to sin in Galatians 5:19.

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness," (Galatians 5:19).

In Romans 8:13, "Live after the flesh (sin) brings spiritual death" is supported by the context:

#1. But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; (Romans 2:8-9).
#2. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law (Romans 2:12).
#3. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. (Romans 11:22).​

In Galatians 5:19-21, Paul lists certain sins and he says that they that do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. This is talking about entering God's Kingdom and in being rewarded. The word "inherit" is used elsewhere in the Bible as a reference to the sheep (the saints) who helped the poor in this life and they were told that they were going to inherit God's kingdom by their actions.

"Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: " (Matthew 25:34).

In Romans 8:13, putting to death the sinful deeds of the body by the Spirit brings eternal life (spiritual life) is supported by the context:

#1. Yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God (Romans 6:13). "...become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Romans 6:22).
#2. So now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness (Romans 6:19). So might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 5:21).​

1 John 3:7 says be not deceived, he that does righteousness is righteous.

Grace reigns through righteousness (or righteous living) (Romans 5:21).

Proof?

Titus 2:11-12 says God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world.

Ephesians 5:25-27 says that the reason Christ died for us was to sanctify us with the washing of the water of the Word (Scripture) so that Christ may present to Himself a church that is holy, and blameless.

For Jesus agreed with the lawyer on the truth that we have to love God and love our neighbor as a part of inheriting eternal life (See Luke 10:25-28). We are told to walk after the Spirit and we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Galatians 5:16). For they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24). Note: I believe the point of our discussion that this can refer to grievous sin. So we are not talking about faults of character or minor transgression that the Bible does not condemn.



The Bible teaches that not all sin is the same.

Grievous sin would be lying, stealing, theft, hating, murder, etc.; The words "grievous sin" is taken from Genesis 18:20.​

Minor infractions or faults of character is another name for a "sin not unto death" (i.e. not unto death = not unto spiritual death or the second death) (Note: While the "sin not unto death" mentioned in 1 John 5:16 is in context to confessed sin in John's epistle (See: 1 John 1:9), it can be extended loosely to refer to the kind of sins that do not lead to spiritual death by it's very name).

"Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults."
(Psalms 19:12).​

Examples of Sins That Do Not Lead Unto Spiritual Death:

#1. 1 John 5:16-17 mentions the "sin not unto death."
In context to 1 John 5: This would be talking about confessed grievous sin that one is striving to overcome with the Lord's help (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9) (Romans 13:14). In 1 John 5, the brethren are praying for this believer to have victory (life) over their sin as this believer confesses their sin.

#2. Psalms 19:12 says, "Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults." I believe these would be faults of character or minor errors that a person might make with people. Example: A person may not be a great listener, and they do not allow others to speak like they should. By not listening to others may come off a little like they do not care (even though they care in their own way or a different way). Paul wanted to go to Jerusalem. The Spirit warned Paul not to go. He was still determined to go because he loved His fellow Jews and wanted them to know the love of Jesus. The Spirit told the brethren that Paul will be imprisoned by his going to Jerusalem. The brethren warned Paul not to go. They were in tears and loved him and begged him not to go. But Paul did not listen. He would not hear them. He did not want to hear it. Fault of character. Hidden fault. Minor error of his character. It is not something that condemned him (See Acts of the Apostles 21, and read this article here by Ray Stedman; Note: There is even a better write up than this one by Bible commentator James Boice here; Please keep in mind I do not share their views on Soteriology, though; I merely agree with their view on what happened with Paul in Acts of the Apostles 21).

#3. The Command to Be Baptized.
Paul says Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17). If it was essential to salvation, then why would Paul say something like this? In 1 Peter 3:21: Peter says baptism is not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh. If you were to turn to 2 Corinthians 7:1, you would see that it uses similar wording ("filthiness of the flesh") that is clearly in reference to sin. So Peter is saying that baptism is not for the putting away of "sin" [i.e. filth of the flesh]. In other words, baptism is not a command that if disobeyed, leads to spiritual death.

#4. Other Commands in the New Testament that do not seem like a major violation of loving God and loving your neighbor that have no death penalties attached to them. One example would be the command to Rejoice when men persecute you or falsely accuse you of evil in Matthew 5:11-12.

Real world examples: Going 5 miles per hour over the speed limit in area that is not life threatening to others. Not taking out the trash yesterday when it was a little stinky. These minor transgressions would obviously not send a Christian to hell.

But we as Christians strive to obey and do good in all things in the Lord. We strive to keep His commandments. For it is written,

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.' (1 John 5:3).​


Side Note:

Please understand that it is not possible for a person to obey God's commands without them first being saved by Jesus Christ and His grace (i.e. by seeking forgiveness of their sin with Him, and believing in His death, and resurrection on their behalf). For Christians are initially and ultimately saved by Jesus Christ.
So you believe that Joshua commanded the sun to stop moving and you believe that the sun stopped moving in the sky. And not the stopping of the earth's rotation

You also believe that the moon is a light as is stated in Genesis 1:16 and not a reflector of the suns light
 
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So you believe that Joshua commanded the sun to stop moving and you believe that the sun stopped moving in the sky. And not the stopping of the earth's rotation

We really do not know how God did it. It was a miracle. God can certainly suspend all the laws of physics to make the sun stand still.

You said:
You also believe that the moon is a light as is stated in Genesis 1:16 and not a reflector of the suns light

A reflected light on an object is still a source of light in a dark sky.

Again, I fail to see what this has to do with proving your interpretation on Romans 8:13. Did you even look at the points of the context I presented?

Also, I am not in disagreement that the Bible has metaphors within it.
Most fail to understand the Story of Noah and Ham because they do not know how to properly apply biblical metaphors.

Biblical Metaphors Shed Light on Ham's Sin in Noah's Tent.

If you believe Paul was speaking metaphorically in Romans 8:13, then you need to prove that using the context and or by some other cross reference. So far, I am proving my interpretation using the Bible, and yet you are not really doing that.
 
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Saul committed murder right before he went to be with Samuel.

Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.”

This was a demon masquerading as Samuel. It was not the real Samuel.
 
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Hammster

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Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.
— Galatians 3:21
 
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d taylor

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This was a demon masquerading as Samuel. It was not the real Samuel.

So the Bible is lying when the Bible states ("Then Samuel said", and God uses demons to bring revelation to people)

Then Samuel said: “So why do you ask me, seeing the Lord has departed from you and has become your enemy? 17 And the Lord has done for Himself as He spoke by me. For the Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. 18 Because you did not obey the voice of the Lord nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the Lord has done this thing to you this day.
 
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Yekcidmij

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If you keep sinning after yoluve been saved are you still saved? Jesus promises in John 6:37-40 to not lose one single believer but do believers continue to sin after they've been saved? Like for example say you're caught in the same set of sins are you still saved? Even if you cannot stop doing those same sins over and over again? Like say you like to use Christs name in vain a lot or if you swear a lot or if you're stuck in one particular sin is that person still given to Jesus by God the Father and eternally secure?

I think another question has to be asked first: What would your behavior look like if you weren't saved and what would your behavior look like if you were? For example, maybe you are saved and you behavior would have been much worse if you hadn't been? I'm not saying this to excuse one's behavior, as we're always responsible for what we actually do (not what we would have done in some other world), but we do have to consider alternatives when trying to examine different scenarios.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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So the Bible is lying when the Bible states ("Then Samuel said", and God uses demons to bring revelation to people)

Then Samuel said: “So why do you ask me, seeing the Lord has departed from you and has become your enemy? 17 And the Lord has done for Himself as He spoke by me. For the Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. 18 Because you did not obey the voice of the Lord nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the Lord has done this thing to you this day.

#1. In 1 Samuel 28:14, we find that Samuel is wearing a regular mantle or robe. While in and of itself this may not appear to be any major signifigance, but this appears to show that he had something to hide. For in 1st Kings, we learn that a mantle (robe) can be used to hide one's face.

#2. In 1 Samuel 28:14, we also learn that this vision of Samuel stooped his face to the ground and bowed himself before them. While "obeisance" was a customary act before a king, Saul was no longer a king in God's eyes. Also, in the New Testament we learn that an angel and an apostle had refused any type of bowing down before them. The fact that this vision of Samuel did so suggests that it was bowing down before them as per Saul's wish by the witch.

#3. If this was the real 1 Samuel, then God would be condoning the practice of witchcraft.

#4. The narrative of Saul consulting a medium is in 1 Samuel 28:7-25. The 1st verse prior to this passage, lets us know this fact: “when Saul inquired of the Lord, the Lord did not answer him, either by dreams or by Urim or by the prophets” (1 Samuel 28:6). In other words, Saul was not hearing from God. That's the context.
 
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Gideons300

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If you keep sinning after yoluve been saved are you still saved? Jesus promises in John 6:37-40 to not lose one single believer but do believers continue to sin after they've been saved? Like for example say you're caught in the same set of sins are you still saved? Even if you cannot stop doing those same sins over and over again? Like say you like to use Christs name in vain a lot or if you swear a lot or if you're stuck in one particular sin is that person still given to Jesus by God the Father and eternally secure?
When we first got saved, our heart was grafted into Jesus. We forsook our sinful selfish ways, and gave ourselves to the Him to reign in our hearts as Lord.

As long as we continue to do so, hating our sin, then even if we struggle with it at times, and we repent and turn back to our God, we remain secure in Him.

However, we also need to be warned, for if we try to say we believe in Jesus, but we have kept sin in our lives, with no desire to depart from it, and there is no battle inside us against darkness, our foundation has become our “faith in Jesus”, rather than Jesus Himself.

Who comes to the light? Those who love the light. Amen?
But my word to those caught in addictive repetitive sin, where the struggle is real , yet victory has been fleeting and difficult to achieve, I also believe God will move mountains in these last days to bring these dear children of God into the knowledge of HOW to walk as overcomes, victorious over the world, the flesh and the devil.

There is indeed security for the believer, but our heart motive towards sin and self truly is the determiner of our future eternity.

Blessings,

Gids
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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My pastor says if someone claims to no longer sin, then they are fooling themselves and lying.

Just because we are saved doesn't mean we no longer sin. Yes our sins are paid for, but we are still are in fleshy corrupt bodies. When someone cuts you off in traffic do you get mad? When you tub your toe do you yell? Do you perhaps watch tv more then you should? Maybe you went over the speed limit?

Point being we all sin. However that said, it doesn't mean its an excuse to sin. You can't be like "Well I am saved and my sins are paid for, now I shall look at some inappropriate content since I got nothing to worry about!". There is a difference between outright sinning and accidentally sinning. Such as yelling at the driver who cut you off.

We have to finish this race while also trying as hard as we can NOT to sin. Which may be impossible but thats ok. God knows that. We need to reflect Jesus as much as we can. Because if we don't, maybe in our hearts we never really believed. But only God knows that of course.
 
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eleos1954

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If you keep sinning after yoluve been saved are you still saved? Jesus promises in John 6:37-40 to not lose one single believer but do believers continue to sin after they've been saved? Like for example say you're caught in the same set of sins are you still saved? Even if you cannot stop doing those same sins over and over again? Like say you like to use Christs name in vain a lot or if you swear a lot or if you're stuck in one particular sin is that person still given to Jesus by God the Father and eternally secure?

Romans 2:5

But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

Luke 6:46
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

“If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.” 2 Chronicles 7:14
 
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