Is Final Salvation Free or Contingent upon Obeying Commandments?

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-57

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It's upon you to prove from scripture that God will saved the disobedient ungodly. Exodus 23:7 God said He will not justify the ungodly. Noah would have been ungodly had he not obeyed God's commands. So the onus remains upon you to show the verse that God will save the disobedient ungodly man.
That's kinda strange....Everyone God saves is dead in their sins and trespasses. Everyone is a disobedient ungodly man. After God saves you that man should now be becoming less and less disobedient and more and more Godly.
 
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TheSeabass

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My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
— John 10:27-28
What happens if one quits hearing and following? Will they be given eternal life anyway?
 
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JLB777

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Obeying the gospel is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for our sins so that He might rescue us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, to whom be the glory forevermore. Amen.
— Galatians 1:3-5


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I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:6-10
 
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TheSeabass

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That's kinda strange....Everyone God saves is dead in their sins and trespasses. Everyone is a disobedient ungodly man. After God saves you that man should now be becoming less and less disobedient and more and more Godly.
Everyone does not REMAIN impenitently disobedient. Those disobedient, ungodly people who turn and obey God's commands are the ones God will save.

Those Peter preached to in Acts 2 were wicked, ungodly, lost but they did not remain that way for they chose to believe Peter's words and by doing their duty to obey God's command in Acts 2:38 God would remit their sins.

on "turning" 2 Chronicles 7:14; Acts of the Apostles 26:20
 
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JLB777

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"To the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." Rom 4:5 To obey it is to believe it and to abandon one's faith in one's own performance for salvation. Do you believe people are saved by faith apart from works, apart from putting their faith in their own performance to save them? Or do you think salvation in contingent upon how well one obeys such things as the 10 commandments and such.


To obey means to obey.


There is only one command in the Gospel.


Do you know what it is?



JLB
 
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bcbsr

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Just because I cannot be perfectly sinless does not excuse me in doing what is my duty to do in obeying the Lord's commands as best as I can (Luke 13:24-to strive to do the best I can) and repent for when I sin.
You forgot to add "in order to be saved"
it will be God Who saves but He saves only those that do their duty in having "done all those things which are commanded you."
"in order to be saved"? Typical - always appending "in order to be saved" to every command as if there's not any other reason to do what is right unless you're threatened with hell fire. Kind of self-seeking.

Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live (gain eternal life) by them." Rom 10:5

Which is the same idea as yours. Qualifying to be saved based upon your performance is salvation by works.
 
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JLB777

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Obeying the gospel is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for our sins so that He might rescue us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, to whom be the glory forevermore. Amen.
— Galatians 1:3-5


Do you understand that there are conditions to being in Covenant with the Lord.


There are also conditions to remain “in Christ”.


Do you know what the condition is for remaining in Christ?
 
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JLB777

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You forgot to add "in order to be saved"

"in order to be saved"? Typical - always appending "in order to be saved" to every command as if there's not any other reason to do what is right unless you're threatened with hell fire. Kind of self-seeking.

Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live (gain eternal life) by them." Rom 10:5

Which is the same idea as yours. Qualifying to be saved based upon your performance is salvation by works.


Do you believe you as a Christian can hate another brother, and still have eternal life remaining in you?


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15




JLB
 
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fhansen

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Good point re love.
I was at a bible study yesterday with a monk who repeatedly says that the only way to determine our salvation is by the love we show for others. And, which is the only gift we will be left with after death.
(faith and hope will no longer be necessary.)
Really like that! That reflects true understanding of the gospel.
 
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Hammster

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No difference.
You were telling someone not to do what YOU do.

I'm waiting on John 13 to explain John 15:1-6
If I had made the argument that verse x said y, then the burden would be on me. But when you say verse x means why, but refuse to entertain the context, then the burden is still on you.

As to the other statement from Seabass, I said that there was no verse to support that Noah would be saved had He not built the Ark. However, the challenge was on him to show that he wouldn’t, since it’s the claim that he made.
 
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GodsGrace101

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If I had made the argument that verse x said y, then the burden would be on me. But when you say verse x means why, but refuse to entertain the context, then the burden is still on you.

As to the other statement from Seabass, I said that there was no verse to support that Noah would be saved had He not built the Ark. However, the challenge was on him to show that he wouldn’t, since it’s the claim that he made.
OK H.
Whatever.
Nuff talk about Noah.

I posted John 15:1-6

You tell me I don't know context.
You refuse to prove that I don't.

So, I can only proffer that I DO post John 15:1-6 as I understand it and that you must agree since you do not show any support for any other understanding of these verses.
 
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TheSeabass

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You forgot to add "in order to be saved"

Yes, one must do his duty as God requires "in order to be saved" to enter the strait gate.

bcbsr said:
"in order to be saved"? Typical - always appending "in order to be saved" to every command as if there's not any other reason to do what is right unless you're threatened with hell fire. Kind of self-seeking.

Heb 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to (EIS) the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith."

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for (EIS) the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

The Greek word eis carries the idea of looking forward, toward, unto, "in order to". Noah therefore built the ark unto, in order for his house to be saved. He did not build the ark because his house was already saved from a flood that not yet occurred. Likewise, one repents and is baptized in order to have sins remitted. To try and change "eis" to mean 'becuase' is butchering the meaning of these verses.

bcbsr said:
Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live (gain eternal life) by them." Rom 10:5

Which is the same idea as yours. Qualifying to be saved based upon your performance is salvation by works.

Rom 10:5 Paul is showing that one cannot be saved by the OT law of Moses that required strict, perfect flawless obedience. Paul also says "For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to every one that believeth"

So Christ ended the OT law's requirement of perfect law keeping. I have never argued that one can be saved by works of the OT law in flawless law keeping.
 
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-57

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Everyone does not REMAIN impenitently disobedient. Those disobedient, ungodly people who turn and obey God's commands are the ones God will save.

Those Peter preached to in Acts 2 were wicked, ungodly, lost but they did not remain that way for they chose to believe Peter's words and by doing their duty to obey God's command in Acts 2:38 God would remit their sins.

on "turning" 2 Chronicles 7:14; Acts of the Apostles 26:20
Wow, so not true.

You're salvation was determined before you were even born. In fact before the world was ever made.

God doesn't say, look how well he did. I think I'll save him.
 
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What happens if one quits hearing and following? Will they be given eternal life anyway?
I’m glad you asked. Jesus says that His sheep do hear and follow. And he says that those who don’t hear and follow don’t do so because they aren't His sheep.

So we have to ask, what comes first...hearing and following, or becoming sheep. The text seems pretty clear that to hear and follow you must be a sheep. So it also seems impossible, based on that, that a sheep will stop hearing and following. Not perfectly, mind you. In Psalm 23, where David compares himself to a sheep, there’s not perfect obedience (rod and staff reference). So when we are disobedient, the Shepherd corrects us. When we wander, He comes and gets us.
 
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Hammster

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Keep Reading.


I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:6-10
And?
 
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TheSeabass

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"To the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." Rom 4:5 To obey it is to believe it and to abandon one's faith in one's own performance for salvation. Do you believe people are saved by faith apart from works, apart from putting their faith in their own performance to save them? Or do you think salvation in contingent upon how well one obeys such things as the 10 commandments and such.
IN CONTEXT "worketh not" eliminates works required by the OT law. Abraham and David were not justified by works the OT law required in flawless law keeping (Abraham did not even live under the law of Moses) but saved by an obedient belief. Nowhere in Romans or elsewhere does Paul ever eliminate a faithful obedience, see Romans 6:16-18
 
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