Is Final Salvation Free or Contingent upon Obeying Commandments?

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GodsGrace101

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You do have a Bible, correct? Start in John 13.
What's the problem?
You don't like to exegete the bible?
It's not worth it for you to help a person that seems not to understand the following:


John 15:1-6 JESUS SAID:
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vine dresser.
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.

6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

The above is saying:

1. Jesus is the vine.
God Father is the vine dresser.

2. We are the branches. Every branch that does not bear fruit...God Father takes away.

3. The branches that DO bear fruit, God Father prunes so that they could produce even more good fruit.

3. The branch cannot bear fruit unless it abides in the vine.

4. This is because Jesus is the lifeline.

5. Jesus is the vine... we are the branches.

6. IF we abide in Jesus we will bear much fruit.

7. IF anyone does NOT abide in Him,
he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

 
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TheSeabass

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Once again the usual slander coming from the camp trusting in their performance to save them.

Once again, the faith onlyist arguments are full of error, strawman arguments rather than Biblical facts.

Luke 17:10 "So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.'

For me to be saved by my performance, then my performance would have to be flawless, sinlessly perfect, but it is not. Therefore I am an unprofitable servant in need of grace.

Just because I cannot be perfectly sinless does not excuse me in doing what is my duty to do in obeying the Lord's commands as best as I can (Luke 13:24-to strive to do the best I can) and repent for when I sin.

So it cannot be my performance that saves me, but it will be God Who saves but He saves only those that do their duty in having "done all those things which are commanded you."
Faith only will only leave derelict in his duty to God.
 
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JacksBratt

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Oh its relevant friend. You have never met a Christian who encouraged others to sin because of the perceived lack of consequences?
I did.... As a young man, a friend asked me to join him in some sinful activity. I said, in my young innocent days "Jesus wouldn't like that" The friend responded. "OH, I'll just go to the priest on Friday and confess".

Even at a young age, probably 8 or 9, we two, had been taught two different theologies... Even at 8 or 9 years of age, I knew that I did not have a license to sin.
 
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GodsGrace101

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GodsGrace101, I respect your opinion.

You and I will not agree on this one simple point.

We are not "on our way" to the narrow gate. We were, before we were saved. Once we chose Christ.. we are through the narrow gate.

Salvation is not a journey. Growing as a Christian.... is.

I know your view is different.
We were NOT on our way to the narrow gate before we got saved.

We were on our way to the wide gate.

We repented...we changed direction...we changed our mind and went the OTHER WAY...toward the narrow gate and God.

I say we are on our way TO the narrow gate because the N.T. makes it clear to me that we could fall away from our faith. This is not speaking to sinning...which we confess and continue on...
but it is speaking to the state of the heart that you speak of.

I don't like to say that persons were never saved to begin with because it would be doing what you stated....judging someone's soul. I take persons at their word...if they THINK they are saved..then we should assume they are.

If there's no change it's a problem I think.
If there's no desire to follow God's rules, it's a problem. Because it shows no change of heart.

I do believe sanctification is an on-going process which we will not complete in this life.

It's OK if we don't agree,,,I do want to say that eternal salvation (unconditional) was never spoken of until the reformation in 1,500AD.
 
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Hammster

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What's the problem?
You don't like to exegete the bible?
It's not worth it for you to help a person that seems not to understand the following:


John 15:1-6 JESUS SAID:
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vine dresser.
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

The above is saying:

1. Jesus is the vine.
God Father is the vine dresser.

2. We are the branches. Every branch that does not bear fruit...God Father takes away.

3. The branches that DO bear fruit, God Father prunes so that they could produce even more good fruit.

3. The branch cannot bear fruit unless it abides in the vine.

4. This is because Jesus is the lifeline.

5. Jesus is the vine... we are the branches.

6. IF we abide in Jesus we will bear much fruit.

7. IF anyone does NOT abide in Him,
he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
I’m trying to help. I told you to look at context. You won’t even look at the context of the chapter, let alone what happened prior. So don’t act as if I’m not willing to help.
 
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TheSeabass

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You are correct. I cannot explain what would happen had he not obeyed. And neither can you because it’s not in scripture.

It's upon you to prove from scripture that God will saved the disobedient ungodly. Exodus 23:7 God said He will not justify the ungodly. Noah would have been ungodly had he not obeyed God's commands. So the onus remains upon you to show the verse that God will save the disobedient ungodly man.
 
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Hammster

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It's upon you to prove from scripture that God will saved the disobedient ungodly. Exodus 23:7 God said He will not justify the ungodly. Noah would have been ungodly had he not obeyed God's commands. So the onus remains upon you to show the verse that God will save the disobedient ungodly man.
You really have moved the goalposts here. I never said that God would save the disobedient ungodly. All I asked was for you to provide scriptural support for a statement you made. You cannot, so you’ve turned this back on me.
 
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GodsGrace101

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I’m trying to help. I told you to look at context. You won’t even look at the context of the chapter, let alone what happened prior. So don’t act as if I’m not willing to help.
You don't help a Christian by scolding them.
You would have helped by going to John 13 and advising me of the context of John 15:1-6

IF you think a person is stating something that is incorrect, it's not enough to say it's incorrect.

You have to state WHY you think so and then explain WHY.

This is how it's done on these forums.
It makes me think that maybe YOU don't even know the context.
 
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GodsGrace101

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You really have moved the goalposts here. I never said that God would save the disobedient ungodly. All I asked was for you to provide scriptural support for a statement you made. You cannot, so you’ve turned this back on me.
LOL
YOU also do not provide scriptural support for your statements.

Start with John 15:1-6 and show me how I don't know the context.
 
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Hammster

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You don't help a Christian by scolding them.
You would have helped by going to John 13 and advising me of the context of John 15:1-6

IF you think a person is stating something that is incorrect, it's not enough to say it's incorrect.

You have to state WHY you think so and then explain WHY.

This is how it's done on these forums.
It makes me think that maybe YOU don't even know the context.
I haven’t scolded you.
 
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bcbsr

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Do you believe a person can be saved without obeying the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ?

JLB
"To the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." Rom 4:5 To obey it is to believe it and to abandon one's faith in one's own performance for salvation. Do you believe people are saved by faith apart from works, apart from putting their faith in their own performance to save them? Or do you think salvation in contingent upon how well one obeys such things as the 10 commandments and such.
 
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Hammster

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LOL
YOU also do not provide scriptural support for your statements.

Start with John 15:1-6 and show me how I don't know the context.
I wasn’t quoting you.
 
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