preachers are scared to say SALVATION CAN BE LOST

Dave L

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yep.
my experience as well of Calvinist believers when I was at a Calvinist church, there was no assurance of salvation, little peace. it was quite fascinating how that was an outcome of calvinist teaching that they dont even realise they're doing to themselves.
This does not reflect my experience.
 
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Albion

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Whats the point of repentance if you cant lose your salvation.?
No repentance, no salvation. That seems motivation enough.

But as for the main question here, it may be that its all about which churches a person frequents. I have no doubt that some of them may never make much of a point about losing eternal life, but there are plenty that do--sometimes to excess IMO.
 
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Mel333

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its very very very RARE to hear a modern day preacher preach that salvation can be lost.
This is biblical and we need the truth spoken over us. Blessings

Firstly, this topic is a serious accusation against preachers.

Second, you will need to state the biblical references you're referring to justify your truth claim.

Therefore, this truth claim has no validity and is an accusation until proven otherwise.

You will need to validate that preachers are scared

And

That salvation can be lost with NT scripture. Preferably Christ teachings.
 
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Dave L

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did you read my last sentence.. they dont even realise they are doing it to themselves so of course you dont recognize it.
But I was an Arminian for many decades until I read about Calvinism for myself. So I've seen both views first hand. And I think most of what you say comes from a misunderstanding of Calvinism.
 
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bcbsr

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Since I have been on the forum - no one, and I mean no one has been able to explain how Jeremiah's prophesy concerning the New Covenant, uniquely detailing the purpose of the indwelling fear of Him, is somehow defeated by our flesh.

Honestly I wonder how many of you have experienced the Fear of Him.

How is it possible to conceive of any human action, attitude, intent, stronger than the Fear of God.

His fear renders you totally undone - prostrate - silenced.

He declares you are saved.

No one can snatch you out of His hand - unless you are bigger than God.

This fear inside you is terrible. This fear inside you is secure.

Those verses again...

Jer 32
39 I will give them one heart and one way, so that they will always fear Me for their own good and for the good of their children after them. 40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never turn away from doing good to them, and I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will never turn away from Me. 41 Yes, I will rejoice in doing them good, and I will faithfully plant them in this land with all My heart and soul.…
I agree. The prophecy of the effect of the New Covenant is reflected in verses like 1John 3:9 "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." So while under the Old Covenant God deals with sinfulness through threats of damnation, under the New Covenant God deals with sinfulness by changing a person's nature.
 
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bcbsr

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Whats the point of repentance if you cant lose your salvation.?
What motivation is that? How can you further give your heart if every

things
been done? If you are all taken care of once you are born again, whats the point of repen
tance and doing good works?
God wants a love relationship with you. He wants you to love him back.
TO be saved you must BELIEVE and repent, continue to beleive and continue to repent. If once saved always saved was true then its not really a relationship. its more of a contract. and a selfish gain.
You're assume that the only reason one would do what is right was in order to be saved, which is an Old Covenant concept - obedience through fear of condemnation. Not so under the New Covenant where God changes the nature of the person such that doing what is right becomes natural to the person. Such a person doesn't need to be motivated out of fear of condemnation. 1John 4:18 "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." But perhaps that's unfamiliar to you being not part of your personal experience.

"No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9

"This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world" 1John 5:3,4

Thus, being eternally secure, the motivation to love is not fear, but rather because that's the nature of those born of God.
 
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bcbsr

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If a beleiver has true holy fear of God in them then they are on the right path to salvation.
They may be on the "path", but unlike many of us they haven't arrived at the end to receive eternal life. "Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor." Gal 3:24,25

For us who have arrived by faith, Jesus says, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24
 
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A_Thinker

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Jesus warned us about Hell many many times, far much more than the glories of Heaven, so i think it is VERY essential to teach.preach about this. And a license from a bishop isnt the Word of God. The word of God prohibits women having authourity over men.
I don't where this fallacy started, ... but it's very pervasive among the clergy.

What confounds me is how easy it is to disprove ... a quick search of the scriptures demonstrates that Jesus easily taught more of heaven than of hell, ... and once you really think about it, it makes a lot of sense.

Did Jesus speak more about Hell than about Heaven?
 
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Paidiske

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It seems to me that Anglicanism as a whole sits on the fence here -- the 39 articles can (I believe) be read in a Calvinist sense, but they can also be read in a Catholic one.

Anglicans on the fence? Who would have thought? ;)

I think it is possible to read the 39 Articles in a way compatible with (some strands of) Calvinism but they are certainly ambiguous (I suspect deliberately so). I would not describe Anglicanism as I have experienced it as Calvinist.
 
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bcbsr

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1 Cor 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were.

Yet OSAS will still say, if we do those things as a lifestyle, we are either still saved, or their favorite, proven untrue, catch all, "They were never saved to begin with" deception.
Firstly 1Cor 6:9-10 is not talking about how to be saved, but rather describing the characteristic behavior of those who aren't saved. To say otherwise is basically to make salvation contingent upon one's performance, which is salvation-by-works, which you pretend not to advocate.

You second point is easy falsify. I believe OSAS yet I don't claim that those living a lifestyle of sin are saved. So there! You might want to correct your notions as what OSAS Christians believe.

The reason why you won't find anyone born of God (and thus "saved") who live in sin is due not to fear of condemnation, but rather because of the nature of regeneration such that "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9
 
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Derek1933

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Jesus warned us about Hell many many times, far much more than the glories of Heaven, so i think it is VERY essential to teach.preach about this. And a license from a bishop isnt the Word of God. The word of God prohibits women having authourity over men.
 
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Derek1933

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Jesus warned His hearers, (Matthew. 7:15) “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.” Much of His ministry consisted of severely confronting the false teaching of the religious leaders of His day. (compare. Matt. 16: 11-12 & Matt. 23: 1-39) In His discourse on things to come, He warned His hearers (Matt. 24: 4-5) “See to it that no one misleads you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.”

The apostle Peter uses most of his second letter to warn against the doctrine offered by false teachers whilst the subject matter of Jude's succinct letter is wholly devoted to the same theme. John in his letters warns repeatedly against false teachers and Paul’s final words to the elders of the Ephesians (Acts 20: 28-30) warned them about the danger of departing from sound doctrine. His final letters to Timothy and Titus repeatedly emphasized the need for sound doctrine and He instructed Titus (Titus. 1:9) that an elder must “Hold fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.” He then goes on to explain that there are many empty talkers and deceivers who are upsetting whole households through their false teaching. In his final exhortation to Timothy (2 Tim. 4: 3-4) he wrote, For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

The Apostles' Creed is a summary of the belief, understanding, acceptance and teaching of the Apostles which, when accepted by faith, will give a firm foundation on which to build a Christian life embracing an Agape Love for God and for humankind by which an individual becomes wholly acceptable to God and is saved.
 
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bling

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Since I have been on the forum - no one, and I mean no one has been able to explain how Jeremiah's prophesy concerning the New Covenant, uniquely detailing the purpose of the indwelling fear of Him, is somehow defeated by our flesh.

Honestly I wonder how many of you have experienced the Fear of Him.

How is it possible to conceive of any human action, attitude, intent, stronger than the Fear of God.

His fear renders you totally undone - prostrate - silenced.

He declares you are saved.

No one can snatch you out of His hand - unless you are bigger than God.

This fear inside you is terrible. This fear inside you is secure.

Those verses again...

Jer 32
39 I will give them one heart and one way, so that they will always fear Me for their own good and for the good of their children after them. 40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never turn away from doing good to them, and I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will never turn away from Me. 41 Yes, I will rejoice in doing them good, and I will faithfully plant them in this land with all My heart and soul.…
Jer. 32: 39-41 is specifically talking about the Jewish nation after they were scattered with the Babylon overthrow.
Did individual Jews "turn away from God" after they returned from Babylon?
The nation as a whole did have some Jews remaining believer up to the time of Christ.
I would also use Jer. 18 which would apply:
And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.
 
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Grip Docility

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If a beleiver has true holy fear of God in them then they are on the right path to salvation.

You’re drowning... and call out to the life guard.

The Life Guard rescues you.

Are you on a path to being saved or saved?
 
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Maria Billingsley

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its very very very RARE to hear a modern day preacher preach that salvation can be lost.
This is biblical and we need the truth spoken over us. Blessings
IMO the best way to preach on this subject is "staying the course". As a born again believer we are regenerated with the Holy Spirit. Now, many, including myself, quench the Holy Spirit from time to time thus the course gets altered.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."


Jesus Christ of Nazareth time after time warned against the dangers of the broad road leading to a wide gate of destruction. If a Christian continues to "quench" the work of the Holy Spirit, they will for ever stay on that wide road and miss the narrow.
 
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