if we have a free will, He cannot force salvation on us. We must choose by our own free will to receive or reject, it is this free will that unfortunately can empower apostacy as well.
you didn't answer the question.
when doing a study of living plants in the new testament, 9 out of 10 new testament verses are speaking of people that are saved.
While under the Old Covenant a person's salvation was contingent upon his performance in living up to the standards of the Law, under the New Covenant salvation is not contingent upon performance. It's contingent simply upon believing in Christ. "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." John 5:24 Such people are not longer subject to the law of sin and death. "There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death." Rom 8:1,2 For those under the law of sin and death, sin controls one's destiny. If you sin, you are condemned. Not so under the New Covenant, where God says, "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more." (Heb 8:12; Heb 10:17)
I agree with all those verses, like I said I believe in eternal security. I am not saved by works, nor is my performance able to somehow remove salvation. I am elected before the foundation of the world. However, I can choose of my own free will not to be saved, and by simply losing faith in God, or the gospel message and maybe even the Bible in general. A calvinist will come and say, " you were never saved." But I know I was. I believe the Bible warns of apostacy. Why would they warn of apostacy of the non saved? An athiest isn't an apostate, unless like I said, they were a former believer who lost their faith. The majority of X, Y, and Z generations are losing their faith as soon as they enter college. They encounter skepticism for the first time, and are forced to move from faith to logic over night, and the result is not pretty. Some of them return to the faith later, the majority do not. So we are losing alot of christians to apostacy, I think it is an important topic.
they lost their salvation because they did not really belong to us, if they had belonged to us, they would not have lost their salvation. So that verse works for me too.
I deal with this in my post on addiction. Grace and mercy is very much alive and well, just read that post. But if I decide I no longer desire salvation, God won't force it on me. And even more practically if sin decieves me, and I start to doubt the Bible, Jesus existence, and salvation by faith. I am no longer saved, even if I was already saved. As long as you believe you are eternally secure. No I don't think that a small doubt over a Bible contradiction, counts. Usually these doubts occur over years, and the person gives in to them, and ultimately ship wrecks their faith. MAny times kids do this while entering college.
I believe that is talking about mortification, mortifying your body dead to sin. Not saying sin no longer can affect salvation. While that is true logistically, there is a way that sin can cause doubt, and doubt can eventually lead to apostacy.
I have joy, peace and prosperity. But I also have victory over addictive sin. three addictive sins in my life, have been conquered, and I am working on a fourth. Apostacy doctrines, wake you up. Christians believe they are saved no matter what, it's those christians that start watching kiddy inappropriate content, and becoming child molesters. We have to wake up as a church. Be not deceived, no one who watches kiddy inappropriate content, or molests children on a regular basis is saved. Those are just examples. I can quote dozens of verses. Now if someone is addicted to any sin, there is mercy and grace to overcome, but it starts by realizing that God rejects that sin. And we can't live our lives in a proud manner and not attempt to make our lives right with God. That is not the purpose of the Gospel. The Gospel was not created to make the frozen chosen, bench warmers in the church saved in their mind, but not in their heart. It was to conquer sin, to glorify God resultingly .
Again I note that you haven't taken into account the verses that speak to the regenerate nature. Like you say, "I can choose of my own free will not to be saved". A person might be able to say that prior to getting saved. But once a person is born of God they lose aspects of their free will, as it says in 1John 3:9 they lose the ability to continue in sin. In your original post your claim is that such people can continue in sin to the point that they lose faith. No, 1John 3:9 indicates that's not possible. So while you say you "agree" with those verses, apparently you must have a much different interpretation of them than the way many of us view them.
wow sir, I don't think we lose free will when we get saved. Please quote another pastor or commentator who believes this. I don't think you can find one. Not that that is authoritative by any means by itself, but only to show you that that is a rare thing to say. So lets tackle it. When we become saved, we desire to be holy, that is all that verse is saying in 1 john 3:9. The way I know that it's not talking about free will, is that we still sin, even though it says we won't sin. Do you sin? Do you look with lust at another woman? Do you see a picture of victoria secret, when going through the mall, and stare a little too long? Don't worry I am not judging. I am just saying that we still sin, even though the verse says we won't. So it's not talking about free will. It's talking about sanctification which is a cooperation where we slowly give our will up for His will in our lives. We never fully give it up, but this is a weakness we have. If we could fully give up our free will, we would have no sin, or flesh. But we do have a sinful flesh still. So in conclusion it helps to know the greek there, it is I believe talking about "present continual sin." Something that we do regularly, that we have not repented of. inappropriate contentography is a great one to enter here. 80 percent of christian males are addicted to inappropriate content. Yet that verse says we will not continue in sin. So why are we continuing in sin? I believe that someone addicted to inappropriate content, does it, repents of it, does it again, repents of it. They are not continuing in it, because they are repenting all the while. They don't have victory over the sin, but they are not continually sinning. Now if ever a person starts to shrug off the shame of that sin, and decides to stop repenting of it, then there is a red flag. That sin gains a foothold. And as the Bible says, a little leaven leavens the whole loaf. That small singular sin grows and grows in the heart. Slowly it consumes the entire marriage, and a divorce is filed. Then the person still does not repent, and this issue plagues the next marriage. and a third and a fourth, all because the singular sin. That sin has caused death. Now also sin can deceive, say that sin becomes so fun and alluring that we no longer are ashamed of it, but we start to embrace and celebrate it. Jesus becomes a bitter topic to us. Who does that Jesus think He is to forbid such extasy? He must not want me to have fun, and by the way the Bible has a lot of contradiction anyway. I am not sure I believe in Jesus anymore. I have forfeited my salvation and the love of my life, all for a fantasy woman I can never have. This is the deception that sin can have in our lives. That is why we must repent of all known sin, and never give them a foot hold. And even pray to God that He reveal sin in our lives. God gave us the perfect prayer "deliver us not into temptation." Because God knew that victory was available. But we must ask for it.
You do an excellent job of listing out scripture in support of the truth you must remain faithful to the end, but a person can get around these scriptures by arguing:
1John 3:9 is talking about characteristic behavior, as you seem to allude to. On that we agree concerning the Greek Present tense. But you go on to basically say that such people can become addicted to sin, such as it becomes their characteristic behavior and yet claim it's not their characteristic behavior. No, I don't accept that interpretation. People who have been born of God are simply not going to decide to live as unbelievers. But you unbelief in what that and 1John 2:19 says explains why you believe a person can lose their salvation. You claim to believe in Eternal Security, but they you deny believing in Eternal security.
Love it, thanks. I have not thought of it that way. I hope you also learned something from my posts. Take care, by all means join in and share!
Well sir I laid out a perfect example of someone leaving the faith because they didnt want to give up inappropriate content. Just read that post, I adress everything there. I do believe in Eternal security. If we want it. I don't believe in Eternal security if I dont want it. I just proved logically how a sin can cause someone to lose faith, again please respond to this post. I am not at a computer and am typing on my phone, so bear with me. My posts are short and sweet now.
You assumed the person was saved to begin with. His leaving the faith proved that he was never really of it to begin with.
I know that is what you say. But I logically showed the process of someone saved losing their faith. I simply showed how it can be logically possible in the psyche. In the OP and other places I make a biblical argument, but here I was just using logical arguments.
