Discussion That is to say, you are not god.

1stcenturylady

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But you talked about willful sin. Can a believer sin willfully?

Paul warns us to not sin willfully. He calls it trampling on the Spirit of Grace and the blood of Jesus, so what do you think? Read Hebrews 10:26-39.

So yes a Christian who has been sanctified is capable of willfully sinning, but they have to purposely go against their new nature. It wouldn't be easy. Paul goes so far as to say that this person could go all the way back to perdition. (Judas was called the "son of perdition" if that tells you anything.) Peter calls it being like a dog going back to his own vomit.

In Revelation 2 Jesus tells the Ephesian church they lost their first love. And if they don't repent He will remove their candlestick.

You can lose your place in the race toward salvation. A willful sin is not automatically forgiven like a trespass can be with Jesus as our Advocate. A willful sin MUST be repented of and turned away from. Willful sinning quenches the Holy Spirit.
 
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Loversofjesus_2018

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Paul warns us to not sin willfully. He calls it trampling on the Spirit of Grace and the blood of Jesus, so what do you think? Read Hebrews 10:26-39.

So yes a Christian who has been sanctified is capable of willfully sinning, but they have to purposely go against their new nature. It wouldn't be easy. Paul goes so far as to say that this person could go all the way back to perdition. (Judas was called the "son of perdition" if that tells you anything.) Peter calls it being like a dog going back to his own vomit.

In Revelation 2 Jesus tells the Ephesian church they lost their first love. And if they don't repent He will remove their candlestick.

You can lose your place in the race toward salvation.
I thought Paul was having an issue doing things he didn’t wanna do, that he knew not to do but found himself doing it anyway. How can I bring this all together to make sense? And just to be clear I’m appreciative of your your responses. It’s what I joined the forums for. Thanks
 
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1stcenturylady

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I thought Paul was having an issue doing things he didn’t wanna do, that he knew not to do but found himself doing it anyway. How can I bring this all together to make sense? And just to be clear I’m appreciative of your your responses. It’s what I joined the forums for. Thanks

I want you to read Romans 7 in context this time. The longest context would be from chapter one, but the shortest context is Romans 7:7 to Romans 8:9. Even though Paul is talking in first person in Romans 7, he is talking about someone under the law. Throughout previous chapters he is teaching us that in Jesus we are no longer under the law, and in Romans 6, that we are dead to sin. Well, sin is the whole reason for the law in the first place. Galatians 3 tells us that the law was brought in because of transgressions UNTIL Christ. That is what Romans 7 and Romans 8 is showing. The contrast between the LAW before Christ (7) and the SPIRIT after Christ(8).

Now when you have time read the first 8 chapters of Romans in one sitting. And use a Bible like the New King James Version as it has the whole verse of Romans 8:1, where modern versions have only half the verse, and has lead to false teachings. There are many preachers that don't even know that Romans 7 is NOT about Christians. Ah vey!
 
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1stcenturylady

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@Loversofjesus_2018

It has been lovely talking to you tonight. Read those chapters SLOWLY. You'll see more than others see and are blind to if you do read it in the whole context.

Good night.
 
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1stcenturylady

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@Loversofjesus_2018

PS Note that the person in Romans 7 still has SIN in them, namely their sin nature. Romans 8 is someone who has been freed from sin and death - their sin nature. Romans 8:9 says we are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. That word "flesh" is referring to the sin nature. Verse 9 is referring to someone who has been born again of the Spirit.
 
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Alithis

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I see Jesus as my lord and righteousness. To say I am a God, means I've become my own righteousness, there's something wrong with that picture.

It's not much different than what is taught in Wicca or the New Age movement.
I have to ask ..where in anything she posted does it even remotely insinuate any one is saying they are God..?
It doesnt. So tbh im not sure what on earth your on about.
 
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Alithis

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Do you think people normally unknowingly sin or do we usually know that it was sin?
We Know when it is sin ( aka a sin unto death) we know very well indeed. A work of sin is mot a mystical thing we have but an action we do.
No action we do is done accidently.we desire its outcome calculate how to preform it and then choose to do it

An action of sin is the same.
 
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Alithis

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Does overcoming sin mean you don’t sin anymore? From my understanding when a person overcomes a thing that means it is in the past. I’m just trying to understand if overcoming means something different when it comes to sin or does it mean overcome as in it’s in the past. Thanks
Yes... But overcoming is also a a resulting choice of action (a result of a )from a clear conscience..
I.e. God has now forgiven and we are so clean and so grateful and so in love with Jesus that we dont WANT to get dirty again
So from that state of clean conscience we Go forward ..and ..when we are confronted with oppurtunity to do that sin( what ever it was past tense) we choose to NOT do it but prefer to obey GOD.
And joyfully we find ..wow WE CAN obey God..
And in that moment we have Overcome it..
Then we learn to go forward and abide in that state and not turn back again
Its always a growth of obedience and victory for those that Do believe..
But @1stcenturylady has explaind thing well and as usually with greater patience then i would... :)
 
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Loversofjesus_2018

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@Loversofjesus_2018

It has been lovely talking to you tonight. Read those chapters SLOWLY. You'll see more than others see and are blind to if you do read it in the whole context.

Good night.
Thanks again. I appreciate the time you and everyone else took to answer some questions for me!
 
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Gregory Thompson

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You are being facetious, but that doesn't help our conversation. All those are going to be burned up, so why think about them?

What's the matter? Aren't your prayers answered? You can have a relationship with God where 100% of your prayers are answered, you just have to forget yourself, and let God be in control.
You are presenting yourself like you're on "another level" so I figured it would be easy for you. However, when given a chance to establish what you're talking about with action, you revert to talk. It's really too bad, I had half hoped there for a second. :sorry:

I mean, if you have no concern for the poor, then the faith you're talking about cannot possibly be Christianity, James even said as much.
 
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Petros2015

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The Gift

God gave me an Ax
That felled a tree of shadows
And anger in my soul

In one blow it was gone
Struck to the root!
When all my effort
Had gained me nothing
But to grow it.

"Swing this and be at peace," He said
"It is yours to keep and carry"
The inscription on the Ax
finished His revelation and gift to me:

"For thou art not God"
 
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Alithis

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You are presenting yourself like you're on "another level" so I figured it would be easy for you. However, when given a chance to establish what you're talking about with action, you revert to talk. It's really too bad, I had half hoped there for a second. :sorry:

I mean, if you have no concern for the poor, then the faith you're talking about cannot possibly be Christianity, James even said as much.
Again ...why are you throwing baseless accusations at a sister? She never stated she did not care for the poor. She just did not deviate off the central topic down a rabbit hole trying to be dug.
And used the same example JESUS used.. " the poor you will always have with you..."
Don't twist peoples words .its not honest
 
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1stcenturylady

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You are presenting yourself like you're on "another level" so I figured it would be easy for you. However, when given a chance to establish what you're talking about with action, you revert to talk. It's really too bad, I had half hoped there for a second. :sorry:

I mean, if you have no concern for the poor, then the faith you're talking about cannot possibly be Christianity, James even said as much.

You can turn your facetious words and say I didn't answer them. No I didn't have patience for childish games when there is life and death in the balance. What I do for the poor is like letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing, and still it would be casting pearls. So no I don't bite when you don't tell of your great ministry to the poor either.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Thanks again. I appreciate the time you and everyone else took to answer some questions for me!

Your welcome. Each chapter builds upon the last one until you finally come to the Spirit. You will see many on the forums quoting from some of the chapters in the middle, even before chapter 6. But now you'll know better to than to do that. You must come to the conclusion of the whole teaching to actually understand Paul's lesson.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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You can turn your facetious words and say I didn't answer them. No I didn't have patience for childish games when there is life and death in the balance. What I do for the poor is like letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing, and still it would be casting pearls. So no I don't bite when you don't tell of your great ministry to the poor either.
I think the main issue I have with believing your interpretation of the bible is the basis of how you misinterpret my words. Just saying.
 
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1stcenturylady

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I think the main issue I have with believing your interpretation of the bible is the basis of how you misinterpret my words. Just saying.

When it is so off topic, who knows what you are talking about, but you.
 
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mourningdove~

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The question raised was "is a Christian a sinner or a son of God?" …

Hi 1stcenturylady …

I'm not here to debate, just trying to understand what you are saying.
The conversation on this has been interesting to follow. :)


I've read some of your recent postings on this subject in this forum …
and so I am wondering:


Would the belief you are trying to explain fall under any of these categories:
Theosis? Deification? "Mystical union with God"?

I find that some beliefs can be very hard to verbally explain in a message forum.
That's when I go looking for informative links.

Does anything here (below) explain what you are talking about:

What is deification in the Eastern Orthodox Church?
Theosis: Partaking of the Divine Nature | Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese
https://cct.biola.edu/man-god-ruins-theosis-christian-tradition/

Thank you … God bless.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Would the belief you are trying to explain fall under any of these categories:
Theosis? Deification? "Mystical union with God"?

No. Jesus is the one that says we are no longer sinners, but sons (and daughters) of God and will live forever. The Spirit given to us is the means by which we heal the sick, cast out devils and see miracles. Since I was born again of the Spirit 100% of my prayers are answered. (And not with a "No" as false teachers claim). And if it is "wait" He always says how long to the day!
 
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1stcenturylady

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No, definitely not!

If you have questions you can email me on here. What I teach is real and totally Scriptural, but the carnal mind can't swallow it. It is so supernatural, like God is, that many cannot relate to it unless they also have been born again of the Spirit and experience a very personal relationship with God. I was in church for 30 years before I was filled with the Spirit, without one prayer answered. Since that night it is one miracle after another.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Yes... But overcoming is also a a resulting choice of action (a result of a )from a clear conscience..
I.e. God has now forgiven and we are so clean and so grateful and so in love with Jesus that we dont WANT to get dirty again
So from that state of clean conscience we Go forward ..and ..when we are confronted with oppurtunity to do that sin( what ever it was past tense) we choose to NOT do it but prefer to obey GOD.
And joyfully we find ..wow WE CAN obey God..
And in that moment we have Overcome it..
Then we learn to go forward and abide in that state and not turn back again
Its always a growth of obedience and victory for those that Do believe..
But @1stcenturylady has explaind thing well and as usually with greater patience then i would... :)

One thing I would clarify and that is we "choose," not because we love God, as if our choosing is of our own merit. If we still have a fallen nature, we can still have warm fuzzies about God and Jesus, but our nature when we are weak WILL choose to appease the flesh. Many in churches around the world are in this sinking ship without the power of the Spirit in them. We must be born again of the Spirit, and it is all God's doing. He puts a new nature in us, that easily and naturally chooses righteousness. It is not our merit at all; it is not like we even want to choose to sin. It is not in our nature.

But now is the question, how can someone be in church and NOT be born again? It is not a position like some reason, but is an actual state of being. Peter tells us how.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

God knows our heart. Are we repenting superficially so we can have a ticket to heaven and miss hell? That is not true repentance, and God doesn't bite. We must repent of the whole sin nature. In other words, we must desire to please God and have Him scrub us completely clean, for the purpose of NEVER getting dirty again. When you truly mean it, something awesome happens. Jesus fills you with the Holy Spirit from the top of your head to the bottom of your feet and you feel it happening. Overnight all my carnal desires I had been wrestling with were GONE! And now all the scriptures that others hate like those written by John, my life is confirming. If anyone needs help, or would like my testimony, PM me.
 
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