Changed View of Joyce Meyer

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I started a thread a while ago where I defended Joyce Meyer. It was because what I viewed of her at the time, I could not see anything heretical about her. But I have viewed a very heretical teaching that changes my attitude to her completely.

She is preaching another Jesus and is denying that the shedding of the blood of Jesus fully atoned for our sin. She preaches that Jesus had a net put over Him and was carted off to hell to suffer torment by demons. She goes into total fantasy about what she thinks happened to Him in hell. But the truth is that once having finished His work of atonement on the cross, He gave up His life and went to Paradise. He never took on the nature of Satan at all. Peter says that Jesus suffered once for sins and not twice. He suffered on the cross, and did not suffer in hell at all. It is blasphemy to say that Jesus took on a satanic nature and united with the devil. To say this is to say that God united with the devil. This is damnable heresy and Meyer preaching another Jesus and not the Jesus of the Bible.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I started a thread a while ago where I defended Joyce Meyer. It was because what I viewed of her at the time, I could not see anything heretical about her. But I have viewed a very heretical teaching that changes my attitude to her completely.

She is preaching another Jesus and is denying that the shedding of the blood of Jesus fully atoned for our sin. She preaches that Jesus had a net put over Him and was carted off to hell to suffer torment by demons. She goes into total fantasy about what she thinks happened to Him in hell. But the truth is that once having finished His work of atonement on the cross, He gave up His life and went to Paradise. He never took on the nature of Satan at all. Peter says that Jesus suffered once for sins and not twice. He suffered on the cross, and did not suffer in hell at all. It is blasphemy to say that Jesus took on a satanic nature and united with the devil. To say this is to say that God united with the devil. This is damnable heresy and Meyer preaching another Jesus and not the Jesus of the Bible.

All I've read in Scripture is that he preached to those who were dead. He couldn't do that if He was being tormented. Joyce Meyer is not the only one preaching this. Who started it and why? It certainly isn't based on Scripture unless it is a blatant misinterpretation. What Scripture are they basing this on?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

All I've read in Scripture is that he preached to those who were dead. He couldn't do that if He was being tormented. Joyce Meyer is not the only one preaching this. Who started it and why? It certainly isn't based on Scripture unless it is a blatant misinterpretation. What Scripture are they basing this on?

They are misquoting the Scripture from Peter about Jesus going to preach to the spirits in prison, and the bit in Psalms when it is said, "He did not leave my soul in hell".

But the true word in Scripture is Sheol, or Hades and not Gehenna. The tur hell is gehenna, which does not exist yet. It is the final lake of Fire, and Jesus certainly did not go there.

Also they misquote Jesus saying to the thief, "Today you shall be with Me in Paradise" They try to make Jesus say, "I say to you today, you shall be with Me in Paradise" implying that Jesus is meaning that He and the thief will be in Paradise sometime later than "Today". But if every other reference when Jesus says, "I tell you the truth, today...etc." And the cross reference is no different.

The teaching originally came from E W Kenyon's book"From the Cross To The Throne" in which he taught that Jesus was tortured in Hell to gain our atonement. Kenneth Hagin plagarised Kenyon's writing and said that it was his own revelation, and taught the same. Kenneth Copeland taught that the shedding of Jesus blood was not the full atonement, and it was completed when Jesus was tortured in hell. Instead of Jesus saying "It is finished", Copeland teaches that Jesus really said, "It is almost finished."

Hagin, Copeland, Meyer, Dollar, Osteen, Crouch, and others teach that Jesus came to earth as a man and not God, and He only became God after the resurrection. Therefore, He was tormented in hell as a man because on the cross He took on the satanic nature and became sin, when the truth is that Jesus died on the cross as our sacrifice for sin. But if He came to earth as God and man, then it is ridiculous and blasphemous to say that God took on the nature of Satan, and that God was tormented in hell, especially a hell that does not exist yet.

When Jesus went to preach to the spirits in prison, He went to Hades to where there were spirits bound in chains and announced His victory over Satan and his demons. These were spirits who were never going to be saved because they were in the part of Hades where condemned spirits are waiting for the judgment. He did go to the other part called Abraham's Bosom (Paradise) as promised to the penitent thief. After announcing His victory to the spirits in chains, He went to heaven to offer up His blood to the Father. But this is not what Kenyon, Hagin, Copeland, Meyer, Dollar and other WOF teachers teach.

If these teachers are saying that the shedding of the blood of Jesus is not full atonement for our sins, then they are teaching blasphemy, and shows that they have a false understanding of the atonement and there is reasonable doubt that any of these are actually saved. They are preaching another Jesus and another gospel, and there is a curse on that, not a blessing.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I'm watching a video clip showing a preacher called Marjoe who, after years of ministry and making a whole lot of money through the offerings of Christian people, confessed that he was in it just to make money, and he did not believe in God at all! Yet, in his services we see him getting people to praise God, and then laying hands on people and having them fall down "under the power". How can all that be of God when the preacher himself is an atheist, pretending to be a Holy Ghost preacher, and his whole motive was to make money out of gullible people in his meetings?

This is spooky! Because in all these "Holy Ghost" meetings with preachers who seem passionate for God, things are not always what they appear to be! It shows that even the most faithful elect can be deceived!

It is no wonder that many good people decide either to be Cessationist or remain so, because it is the safer way to be than to be deceived by lying signs and wonders, falling down, divination prophecies, and deceptive teaching that is more like to have people end up in hell than heaven!

I totally sympathise with every Cessationist who has turned that way because of the falsehood of the WOF movement and other false Charismatic preachers who are leading their listeners into doctrines of demons.

 

[tturt]

Generally don't agree entirely with every sermon by ministers nor every post but just asks our Heavenly Father to lead us to the truth.

 

[Alithis]

I started a thread a while ago where I defended Joyce Meyer. It was because what I viewed of her at the time, I could not see anything heretical about her. But I have viewed a very heretical teaching that changes my attitude to her completely.

She is preaching another Jesus and is denying that the shedding of the blood of Jesus fully atoned for our sin. She preaches that Jesus had a net put over Him and was carted off to hell to suffer torment by demons. She goes into total fantasy about what she thinks happened to Him in hell. But the truth is that once having finished His work of atonement on the cross, He gave up His life and went to Paradise. He never took on the nature of Satan at all. Peter says that Jesus suffered once for sins and not twice. He suffered on the cross, and did not suffer in hell at all. It is blasphemy to say that Jesus took on a satanic nature and united with the devil. To say this is to say that God united with the devil. This is damnable heresy and Meyer preaching another Jesus and not the Jesus of the Bible.

All I've read in Scripture is that he preached to those who were dead. He couldn't do that if He was being tormented. Joyce Meyer is not the only one preaching this. Who started it and why? It certainly isn't based on Scripture unless it is a blatant misinterpretation. What Scripture are they basing this on?

That is a weird and unscriptural teaching..
Who else us teaching that... ?

 

[mnorian]

I'm watching a video clip showing a preacher called Marjoe who, after years of ministry and making a whole lot of money through the offerings of Christian people, confessed that he was in it just to make money, and he did not believe in God at all! Yet, in his services we see him getting people to praise God, and then laying hands on people and having them fall down "under the power". How can all that be of God when the preacher himself is an atheist, pretending to be a Holy Ghost preacher, and his whole motive was to make money out of gullible people in his meetings?

This is spooky! Because in all these "Holy Ghost" meetings with preachers who seem passionate for God, things are not always what they appear to be! It shows that even the most faithful elect can be deceived!

It is no wonder that many good people decide either to be Cessationist or remain so, because it is the safer way to be than to be deceived by lying signs and wonders, falling down, divination prophecies, and deceptive teaching that is more like to have people end up in hell than heaven!

I totally sympathise with every Cessationist who has turned that way because of the falsehood of the WOF movement and other false Charismatic preachers who are leading their listeners into doctrines of demons.

I was in Pentecostal churches in the 70's when that video by Marjoe came out (it was a TV documentary movie) and watched with a Pentecostal evangelist and she thought it was so great and was laughing at the people being deceived and the "snake handlers". I was a new Christian; but I knew this was just wrong; and told her that I wouldn't watch it anymore and she shouldn't either. She reluctantly agreed and turned the channel.

It seemed there were and are a lot of Pentecostal; and especially the traveling evangelist; that were just playing with the wrong things. Then Jimmy Swaggert had his very public melt-down and since then I have almost become a Cessationist my self.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That is a weird and unscriptural teaching..
Who else us teaching that... ?

My post #3 explains it.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I was in Pentecostal churches in the 70's when that video by Marjoe came out (it was a TV documentary movie) and watched with a Pentecostal evangelist and she thought it was so great and was laughing at the people being deceived and the "snake handlers". I was a new Christian; but I knew this was just wrong; and told her that I wouldn't watch it anymore and she shouldn't either. She reluctantly agreed and turned the channel.

It seemed there were and are a lot of Pentecostal; and especially the traveling evangelist; that were just playing with the wrong things. Then Jimmy Swaggert had his very public melt-down and since then I have almost become a Cessationist my self.

When I first joined a Pentecostal church in 1966, when I received Christ, it was the gospel of Christ, involving conviction of sin, righteousness, and judgment to come, and then Jesus died on the cross as our sacrifice for sin and was resurrected to show that we can receive eternal life and be resurrected when Jesus comes again. That was the core of Pentecostalism when I first signed up for it. Of course there was prophecy and tongues, but they all pointed to the Jesus of the Bible.

But 50 years later, in mainstream Charismatic churches, that gospel is never preached. What is preached is "You can have Jesus as your friend, be healed, get wealthy, name it and claim it, and that's about it! No preaching on sin, no conviction of sin, the need for righteousness, or the truth of the judgment to come. It it all on me, me, me! They are preaching another Jesus and another gospel which wasn't the gospel that was preached when I first signed up in 1966!

Also, 50 years ago, the prayer meeting on Wednesday night was full. Now, we are lucky to find a prayer meeting in any of these mega-churches. Kenneth Hagin said that he gave up praying because he could just name it and claim it and expect God to provide it! What heresy!

I love praying, especially in tongues, and I love the gospel of Christ and pray for loved ones and those who come to mind that they will be convicted of sin, receive Christ and be real, genuine Christians, not worrying about healing, prosperity, or getting everything they want. If they have God, they have everything!

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I started a thread a while ago where I defended Joyce Meyer. It was because what I viewed of her at the time, I could not see anything heretical about her. But I have viewed a very heretical teaching that changes my attitude to her completely.

She is preaching another Jesus and is denying that the shedding of the blood of Jesus fully atoned for our sin. She preaches that Jesus had a net put over Him and was carted off to hell to suffer torment by demons. She goes into total fantasy about what she thinks happened to Him in hell. But the truth is that once having finished His work of atonement on the cross, He gave up His life and went to Paradise. He never took on the nature of Satan at all. Peter says that Jesus suffered once for sins and not twice. He suffered on the cross, and did not suffer in hell at all. It is blasphemy to say that Jesus took on a satanic nature and united with the devil. To say this is to say that God united with the devil. This is damnable heresy and Meyer preaching another Jesus and not the Jesus of the Bible.

All I've read in Scripture is that he preached to those who were dead. He couldn't do that if He was being tormented. Joyce Meyer is not the only one preaching this. Who started it and why? It certainly isn't based on Scripture unless it is a blatant misinterpretation. What Scripture are they basing this on?

Understanding the charismatic/pentecostal interpretation method from observation over the years I'd imagine 2 Corinthians 5:21 is being used, and the part in the passage where it says he "becomes sin" so we can be the "righteousness of God" is being over emphasized. It's kind of an outdated method of interpreting, was very popular in the 1990s.

In general, when you have a strong reaction of disagreement with this kind of theology, it usually means you 'll probably become a baptist. Though there has been a bunch of cross over already thus the coining of the term Bapticostal in some circles.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Understanding the charismatic/pentecostal interpretation method from observation over the years I'd imagine 2 Corinthians 5:21 is being used, and the part in the passage where it says he "becomes sin" so we can be the "righteousness of God" is being over emphasized. It's kind of an outdated method of interpreting, was very popular in the 1990s.

I like this verse in the New Living translation because it explains what Jesus really did on the cross for us:
"For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ" (2 Corinthians 5:21).
This is consistent with the Old Testament sacrifice for sin, which was a shadow of the once for all sacrifice that Jesus was for our sin. That is what atonement actually is, and His death on the cross completed God's full plan of redemption.

What Kenyon, Hagin, Copeland, and others have done is to say that Jesus who came to earth just as a man and not God, partly achieved atonement on the cross, but became sin - took on the nature of Satan, was dragged down into hell to suffer torment at the hands of demons, and then became God and rose from the dead. Through that, Jesus was born again; and though that, we who receive Christ are born again the same as Jesus, become gods like Him, and are fellow messiahs.

But the truth is that Jesus came as God and man, and couldn't have taken the nature of Satan on the cross because that would be saying that God became linked with Satan and suffered torment in hell. That is just sheer blasphemy and is describing another Jesus and another gospel.

So, Jesus became our substitute for sin, not sin itself, and His death was the same as the Jewish scapegoat who had all the sins of the people laid on it once a year. But Jesus became the scapegoat for our sin once and for all and went to heaven to offer up His blood as the full atonement for us to the Father. That is the true gospel of Christ and the real Jesus of the Bible.

As a result, the penalty for sin is removed from us, and God views us as being totally righteous. It is a free gift of grace.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I like this verse in the New Living translation because it explains what Jesus really did on the cross for us:
"For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ" (2 Corinthians 5:21).
This is consistent with the Old Testament sacrifice for sin, which was a shadow of the once for all sacrifice that Jesus was for our sin. That is what atonement actually is, and His death on the cross completed God's full plan of redemption.

What Kenyon, Hagin, Copeland, and others have done is to say that Jesus who came to earth just as a man and not God, partly achieved atonement on the cross, but became sin - took on the nature of Satan, was dragged down into hell to suffer torment at the hands of demons, and then became God and rose from the dead. Through that, Jesus was born again; and though that, we who receive Christ are born again the same as Jesus, become gods like Him, and are fellow messiahs.

But the truth is that Jesus came as God and man, and couldn't have taken the nature of Satan on the cross because that would be saying that God became linked with Satan and suffered torment in hell. That is just sheer blasphemy and is describing another Jesus and another gospel.

So, Jesus became our substitute for sin, not sin itself, and His death was the same as the Jewish scapegoat who had all the sins of the people laid on it once a year. But Jesus became the scapegoat for our sin once and for all and went to heaven to offer up His blood as the full atonement for us to the Father. That is the true gospel of Christ and the real Jesus of the Bible.

As a result, the penalty for sin is removed from us, and God views us as being totally righteous. It is a free gift of grace.

I kind of find it amusing that a paraphrase bible is quoted and the word blasphemy is used in the same description. But moving on.

I kind of left the company of a lot of those places when I'd hear the prosperity gospel and it caused a reaction in me that was unpleasant, almost like it was designed to make people hateful. So my disagreement in a sense, was not just the theology of the movement but also what the spiritual atmosphere did to me when they actually tried to presume to teach theology (especially when it was the opposite of what Jesus taught)

However, I've found over the years the only way to diffuse the incense of spiritual wickedness in addition to the teachings is not to react emotionally and to do what is right. Something about the spirit of the false teachers is just trying to get a reaction, like it feeds off emotions.

Much like the observation: The one yelling the loudest about a Jezebel spirit probably needs an exorcism, not an opportunity to speak.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I kind of find it amusing that a paraphrase bible is quoted and the word blasphemy is used in the same description. But moving on.

I kind of left the company of a lot of those places when I'd hear the prosperity gospel and it caused a reaction in me that was unpleasant, almost like it was designed to make people hateful. So my disagreement in a sense, was not just the theology of the movement but also what the spiritual atmosphere did to me when they actually tried to presume to teach theology (especially when it was the opposite of what Jesus taught)

However, I've found over the years the only way to diffuse the incense of spiritual wickedness in addition to the teachings is not to react emotionally and to do what is right. Something about the spirit of the false teachers is just trying to get a reaction, like it feeds off emotions.

Much like the observation: The one yelling the loudest about a Jezebel spirit probably needs an exorcism, not an opportunity to speak.

Paraphrase or not, the description of Jesus being the sacrifice for our sin is totally consistent with Biblical truth. That is the point I am making.

These false teachers who are teaching the prosperity doctrine are preaching damnable heresies and blasphemies. God is against them and those who accept and base their spiritual lives on their teaching. It is good that you parted company with them, because you have saved your soul by doing that.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Paraphrase or not, the description of Jesus being the sacrifice for our sin is totally consistent with Biblical truth. That is the point I am making.

These false teachers who are teaching the prosperity doctrine are preaching damnable heresies and blasphemies. God is against them and those who accept and base their spiritual lives on their teaching. It is good that you parted company with them, because you have saved your soul by doing that.

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

I find in the web of lies that is bible interpretation (there being so many denominations) it is important to acknowledge what the lie is based on and form your own conclusions based on the actual principle. When we make up theologies to prevent bad theologies from being accepted, it distorts the picture even more for the next generation.

and IMHO, it is distorted enough.

 

[Dave-W]

That is a weird and unscriptural teaching..
Who else us teaching that... ?

I think it was a popular Catholic teaching back in the middle ages. (pre reformation)

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I started a thread a while ago where I defended Joyce Meyer. It was because what I viewed of her at the time, I could not see anything heretical about her. But I have viewed a very heretical teaching that changes my attitude to her completely.

She is preaching another Jesus and is denying that the shedding of the blood of Jesus fully atoned for our sin. She preaches that Jesus had a net put over Him and was carted off to hell to suffer torment by demons. She goes into total fantasy about what she thinks happened to Him in hell. But the truth is that once having finished His work of atonement on the cross, He gave up His life and went to Paradise. He never took on the nature of Satan at all. Peter says that Jesus suffered once for sins and not twice. He suffered on the cross, and did not suffer in hell at all. It is blasphemy to say that Jesus took on a satanic nature and united with the devil. To say this is to say that God united with the devil. This is damnable heresy and Meyer preaching another Jesus and not the Jesus of the Bible.

I'm not to surprised about her, even in my younger days watching TBN etc. I didn't watch her, she had a strange hardnosed demeanor, like she was trying to be more masculine than I am as a guy. My best friend's mom really nailed it, one day when she was on the TV at his house, she said, "Oh dear someone really hurt her!" and you know many years later i heard she softened up a bit and began talking about the abuse she suffered as a kid.


I was going to relate some about Faith teachers teaching about Jesus needing to suffer in hell for our sins, etc. but it looks like you got that covered.

Peter says that Jesus suffered once for sins and not twice

Incidentally, one reasons why Moses was kept out of the promised land was for destroying the typology by striking the rock at Horeb rather than speaking to it (Jesus, the rock was struck once).


In general though I am not surprised that this sort of thing happens, and its not just misquoting Jesus. There is a lot of Charismatic teaching that comes from personal interpretation. Many teachers do not have much of a foundation for Christian doctrine other than reading the Bible. This means when they try to interpret the Bible, and especially are given to a certain degree of sensationalism or encouraged to have originality (people brag about their anointed insights etc.) then weird heretical things can happen. I actually tried to talk about this sort of thing months ago, when I was new on the board on the thread linked below. Part of the problem is this sort of problem exists because of an attitude of out right hostility for any kind of theology, or official instruction other than Bible colleges etc. Unlike other faith traditions nondenominational charismatics don't really have something like a Catechism that they can draw from like more traditional Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox.


Anti-intellectualism and hostility to Theology

 

[1stcenturylady]

They are misquoting the Scripture from Peter about Jesus going to preach to the spirits in prison, and the bit in Psalms when it is said, "He did not leave my soul in hell".

But the true word in Scripture is Sheol, or Hades and not Gehenna. The tur hell is gehenna, which does not exist yet. It is the final lake of Fire, and Jesus certainly did not go there.

Also they misquote Jesus saying to the thief, "Today you shall be with Me in Paradise" They try to make Jesus say, "I say to you today, you shall be with Me in Paradise" implying that Jesus is meaning that He and the thief will be in Paradise sometime later than "Today". But if every other reference when Jesus says, "I tell you the truth, today...etc." And the cross reference is no different.

The teaching originally came from E W Kenyon's book"From the Cross To The Throne" in which he taught that Jesus was tortured in Hell to gain our atonement. Kenneth Hagin plagarised Kenyon's writing and said that it was his own revelation, and taught the same. Kenneth Copeland taught that the shedding of Jesus blood was not the full atonement, and it was completed when Jesus was tortured in hell. Instead of Jesus saying "It is finished", Copeland teaches that Jesus really said, "It is almost finished."

Hagin, Copeland, Meyer, Dollar, Osteen, Crouch, and others teach that Jesus came to earth as a man and not God, and He only became God after the resurrection. Therefore, He was tormented in hell as a man because on the cross He took on the satanic nature and became sin, when the truth is that Jesus died on the cross as our sacrifice for sin. But if He came to earth as God and man, then it is ridiculous and blasphemous to say that God took on the nature of Satan, and that God was tormented in hell, especially a hell that does not exist yet.

When Jesus went to preach to the spirits in prison, He went to Hades to where there were spirits bound in chains and announced His victory over Satan and his demons. These were spirits who were never going to be saved because they were in the part of Hades where condemned spirits are waiting for the judgment. He did go to the other part called Abraham's Bosom (Paradise) as promised to the penitent thief. After announcing His victory to the spirits in chains, He went to heaven to offer up His blood to the Father. But this is not what Kenyon, Hagin, Copeland, Meyer, Dollar and other WOF teachers teach.

If these teachers are saying that the shedding of the blood of Jesus is not full atonement for our sins, then they are teaching blasphemy, and shows that they have a false understanding of the atonement and there is reasonable doubt that any of these are actually saved. They are preaching another Jesus and another gospel, and there is a curse on that, not a blessing.

I agree except your saying they aren't saved. For years after I was saved I didn't know that Jesus was God, but it was revealed in Scripture and I was shocked. I still have "Jesus is God!!!" written in the margin of my Bible from that day.

8 “Also I say to you, whoever confesses Me before men, him the Son of Man also will confess before the angels of God. 9 But he who denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.

10 “And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven.

I've often wondered what Jesus must be referring to with this statement.

 

[GTW27]

I started a thread a while ago where I defended Joyce Meyer. It was because what I viewed of her at the time, I could not see anything heretical about her. But I have viewed a very heretical teaching that changes my attitude to her completely.

She is preaching another Jesus and is denying that the shedding of the blood of Jesus fully atoned for our sin. She preaches that Jesus had a net put over Him and was carted off to hell to suffer torment by demons. She goes into total fantasy about what she thinks happened to Him in hell. But the truth is that once having finished His work of atonement on the cross, He gave up His life and went to Paradise. He never took on the nature of Satan at all. Peter says that Jesus suffered once for sins and not twice. He suffered on the cross, and did not suffer in hell at all. It is blasphemy to say that Jesus took on a satanic nature and united with the devil. To say this is to say that God united with the devil. This is damnable heresy and Meyer preaching another Jesus and not the Jesus of the Bible.

Perhaps it is time to review the other one you defended. For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed in its season. Be Blessed Oscar!

 

[1stcenturylady]

What Kenyon, Hagin, Copeland, and others have done is to say that Jesus who came to earth just as a man and not God, partly achieved atonement on the cross, but became sin - took on the nature of Satan, was dragged down into hell to suffer torment at the hands of demons, and then became God and rose from the dead. Through that, Jesus was born again; and though that, we who receive Christ are born again the same as Jesus, become gods like Him, and are fellow messiahs.

It is interesting that I can see part of this as being true, but nothing that cannot stand up to the scrutiny of Scripture. No where does it say Jesus was tortured in hell so that is a no-brainer as being false. Jesus also achieved FULL atonement on the cross, so "partial" atonement is false.

What I DO believe is that Jesus when He was the Word, before He was born a man, was God. But scripture says He emptied Himself. I believe He emptied the divine powers of Glory He had before. While on earth He grew up absorbing knowledge as a child and always had the seed of the Father in Him since before He was born to totally understand Scripture, then when He started His ministry He was baptized and received the POWER of the Holy Spirit, and was in full communication with the Father, but was fully man with the Spirit. As Spirit-filled Christians we see a glimpse of that relationship with the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Then when His ministry was coming to a close He asks the Father to glorify Him with the same glory He had before. So now He is again fully God, and fully man. I see the "little god" doctrine to be blown out of proportion by scoffers. To me it just means those who have the Holy Spirit and operate in them operate in the authority of God to heal, cast out demons, and anything we pray for comes to pass. No one without the Spirit can do these things. It doesn't make us little Messiahs. We can't atone for anyone's sins, but we can do even greater things than Jesus did.

 

[A_Thinker]

I started a thread a while ago where I defended Joyce Meyer. It was because what I viewed of her at the time, I could not see anything heretical about her. But I have viewed a very heretical teaching that changes my attitude to her completely.

She is preaching another Jesus and is denying that the shedding of the blood of Jesus fully atoned for our sin. She preaches that Jesus had a net put over Him and was carted off to hell to suffer torment by demons. She goes into total fantasy about what she thinks happened to Him in hell. But the truth is that once having finished His work of atonement on the cross, He gave up His life and went to Paradise. He never took on the nature of Satan at all. Peter says that Jesus suffered once for sins and not twice. He suffered on the cross, and did not suffer in hell at all. It is blasphemy to say that Jesus took on a satanic nature and united with the devil. To say this is to say that God united with the devil. This is damnable heresy and Meyer preaching another Jesus and not the Jesus of the Bible.

My wife and I have been listening to Joyce for a few years now. We have several of her books ... and we have never heard the type of teaching you are attributing to her here.

What we have heard from Joyce is that she is open to correction, ... and doesn't continue to ascribe to many of the doctrines she was exposed to while in the faith movement. She speaks much of her growth from the time she started her ministry until the present. Note that I am not saying that she never taught it, ... but that it unlikely that she has continued to teach it.

I am a Bible teacher myself ... and have been one for 35+ years. Even though there are those that preach and teach unbiblically, Joyce is teaching and preaching the gospel of Christ. Do I agree with everything she teaches ... no, but I recognize a teacher of God's word when I see one.

I believe that she deserves a second hearing in 2019. I've changed some positions that I teach across my 35+ years, as well ...