The Evils of Cessationalism

Calminian

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It is a bad thing to think that just because one is not aware of the power of God to work in their life.... To assume the power of God is not available at all...

7 And he brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, behold a hole in the wall.
8 Then said he unto me, Son of man, dig now in the wall: and when I had digged in the wall, behold a door.
9 And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here.
10 So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about.
11 And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up.
12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, the Lord seeth us not; the Lord hath forsaken the earth. - Ezekiel 8

Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not. -Ezekiel 9:9

Most charismatics I know are closet cessationists. None of them believe the gifts at Pentacost are still extant. All the gifts they claim are totally different—different tongues, different healing, etc. Frankly the miracles reported at charismatics churches look like parlor tricks, not even worthy to be called works of God.

Can you please cite the best signs you've seen—the ones that look like those reported in the Bible?
 
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Grip Docility

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It is a bad thing to think that just because one is not aware of the power of God to work in their life.... To assume the power of God is not available at all...

7 And he brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, behold a hole in the wall.
8 Then said he unto me, Son of man, dig now in the wall: and when I had digged in the wall, behold a door.
9 And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here.
10 So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about.
11 And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up.
12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, the Lord seeth us not; the Lord hath forsaken the earth. - Ezekiel 8

Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not. -Ezekiel 9:9

1 Corinthians 12:31 - 1 Corinthians 13
 
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rockytopva

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Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts. - Zechariah 4:6

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. - John 15:5

I believe that is only by the power of the Holy Spirit that we can see good accomplished here on earth. And without the Holy Spirit helping all the religious training is no good at all.
 
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rockytopva

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1 Corinthians 12:31 - 1 Corinthians 13

The conclusion of 1 Corinthians 14....

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order. - 1 Corinthians 14:39-40

Forbid not... As in... Don't disallow it! In the Pentecostal Holiness church I attend there is a hush after a message is given in tongues and it is considered that someone was disobedient if an interpretation in English is not forthcoming. In the case below, in which I videoed, there was a song service before and a message after, along with a refreshing feeling of having been in church.

 
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Grip Docility

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The conclusion of 1 Corinthians 14....

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order. - 1 Corinthians 14:39-40

Forbid not... As in... Don't disallow it! In the Pentecostal Holiness church I attend there is a hush after a message is given in tongues and it is considered that someone was disobedient if an interpretation in English is not forthcoming. In the case below, in which I videoed, there was a song service before and a message after, along with a refreshing feeling of having been in church.


Pointed question... Must one be "Baptized with tongues of fire" to be saved?

How can one who does not need an interpreter need one? Acts of the Apostles 2:5-11
 
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Alithis

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You still haven’t answered the question. Where does Ezekiel say cessationism is evil?
We must allow for him using implication..
They said God does not see anymore...
In other words in thier thinking the reality of the power of God was
Just for past generations to bring r them out of Egypt.. But now all that has ceased...
They were, in essence ,Cessationists.
Saying all that was For a past time and is no longer applicable now...
 
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rockytopva

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Pointed question... Must one be "Baptized with tongues of fire" to be saved?

How can one who does not need an interpreter need one? Acts of the Apostles 2:5-11

We are not Jesus Only Apostolic. Pentecostal Holiness was formed in Goldsboro, North Carolina in 1898. This church was founded as a result of the evangelistic ministry of Abner Blackman Crumpler, a Methodist Holiness evangelist. who believed one had the right to claim the Baptism in the Holy Spirit without the tongues. The blessings in the salvation experience was three...

1. Initial salvation - As easy as believing on the Lord Jesus Christ
2. Sanctification - If the old timers could not detect the sweet spirit of Christ in the experience they would tell you to come back tomorrow night! But not conditional to being saved.
3. The Infilling of the Holy Spirit - As a third blessing in the salvation experience. But not conditional to being saved.
 
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Grip Docility

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We are not Jesus Only Apostolic. Pentecostal Holiness was formed in Goldsboro, North Carolina in 1898. This church was founded as a result of the evangelistic ministry of Abner Blackman Crumpler, a Methodist Holiness evangelist. who believed one had the right to claim the Baptism in the Holy Spirit without the tongues. The blessings in the salvation experience was three...

1. Initial salvation - As easy as believing on the Lord Jesus Christ
2. Sanctification - If the old timers could not detect the sweet spirit of Christ in the experience they would tell you to come back tomorrow night! But not conditional to being saved.
3. The Infilling of the Holy Spirit - As a third blessing in the salvation experience. But not conditional to being saved.

Meh... The "not conditional to being saved." was the important part.

You answered that well and didn't go on to push the doctrine.

All blessings in Jesus Christ to you.
 
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rockytopva

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Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts. - Zechariah 4:6

It is by the power of the Holy Spirit that puts a, "Go Ye!" and a "Divine "Nature" on the inside and allows for much good to be done on planet earth. RW Schambach telling, @ 31:00 how a young person preached a message instead of Zechariah he had Nicodemus in that tree, and ten people came forth to get saved. That's what the Holy Spirit will do for you! Whose blessings are still available for today!

 
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Alithis

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The Charismatic gifts came only through the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands. Scripture mentions no other way. So this is one of many reasons why today's tongues and claims to the gifts are fraudulent.
A serious charge... Serious so very very serious.

Many do not realize that when a person is baptised in the holy spirit they will do as scripture says and speak from the abundance of the heart...("from the abunance of the heart the mouth speaks ")
Since thier heart is being abundantly filled with the holy Spirit ,it will flow out of thier mouths in praise to God... This is the initial evidence (not all inclusivly)
Later they recieve the attribute (gift) of tongues ,either by grace or they Ask God for it and know they shall have what so ever they ask. Gods word is always true.

Then .once people have that, they can speak in tongues anytime.
But they are supposed to exercise self control and do so in humility and by the unction of the Holy spirit in them as He stirs them...
And limit it around people that do not yet comprehend such things.
And there in lays the problem.
People using the ability to speak in tongues publicly ..from the flesh.
This has led to much incredulism from outside the faith.
Sadly some have put faith in that incredulism rather then discern that just because many misuse the gift outside the unction of the Holy spirit and for wrong motives
Does NOT make the things of the holy spirit fake.
It just means that person needs guidence and admonishment on the topic.

Do not ever Ever Judge the things of Gods Holy Spirit based upon the misguided actions of man
 
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Alithis

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That passage was strictly for Israel. Context, context, context.
Paul bt inspiration of the Holy spirits plucked
Sentances from all over the old Testament..out of context to the carnal mind but fully in the Spirit of truth... If those who call on the lord forsake sin and seek his face he will hear and answer.
This is fully in the spirit of truth at all times
 
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W2L

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Paul bt inspiration of the Holy spirits plucked
Sentances from all over the old Testament..out of context to the carnal mind but fully in the Spirit of truth... If those who call on the lord forsake sin and seek his face he will hear and answer.
This is fully in the spirit of truth at all times
Paul rightly divided the word.
 
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Alithis

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We are not Jesus Only Apostolic. Pentecostal Holiness was formed in Goldsboro, North Carolina in 1898. This church was founded as a result of the evangelistic ministry of Abner Blackman Crumpler, a Methodist Holiness evangelist. who believed one had the right to claim the Baptism in the Holy Spirit without the tongues. The blessings in the salvation experience was three...

1. Initial salvation - As easy as believing on the Lord Jesus Christ
2. Sanctification - If the old timers could not detect the sweet spirit of Christ in the experience they would tell you to come back tomorrow night! But not conditional to being saved.
3. The Infilling of the Holy Spirit - As a third blessing in the salvation experience. But not conditional to being saved.
To be honest.. I thought this was a theological thread anout the gifts and/ evils of cessationism.
But you just seem to be focussed on promoting another denomination
One which is as rife with traditional thinkings and practices as any other.
 
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rockytopva

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To be honest.. I thought this was a theological thread anout the gifts and/ evils of cessationism.
But you just seem to be focussed on promoting another denomination
One which is as rife with traditional thinkings and practices as any other.

I had to explain that we are not oneness Pentecostal.
 
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Hammster

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We must allow for him using implication..
They said God does not see anymore...
In other words in thier thinking the reality of the power of God was
Just for past generations to bring r them out of Egypt.. But now all that has ceased...
They were, in essence ,Cessationists.
Saying all that was For a past time and is no longer applicable now...
Okay. Then by implication, I can use that passage to say it’s evil to deny election since God had His chosen people then, and does so now.
 
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Hammster

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Paul bt inspiration of the Holy spirits plucked
Sentances from all over the old Testament..out of context to the carnal mind but fully in the Spirit of truth... If those who call on the lord forsake sin and seek his face he will hear and answer.
This is fully in the spirit of truth at all times
How many of His people are needed?
 
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