I believe we are entering the time soon

[Marilyn C]

Ronald, I agree that regarding Zechariah 14. And at the time Jesus returns, the Jews will have become believers in Jesus.

But right now they are not, and will make a big mistake by thinking the prince who shall come right after Gog/Magog is their messiah. Until he goes bad and betrays them, and becomes the beast in Revelation.

Ronald, regarding Jesus stopping the sacrifices, the sacrifices did not stop until almost 40 years later. The confirmation of the covenant for 7 years is something that Moses required of all future leaders of Israel in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

Hi Douggg,

I agree with a lot of what you say, however I don`t see that Israel will believe that the A/C is their Messiah. Where do you get that idea?

Thanks, Marilyn.

 

[Douggg]

Hi Douggg,

I agree with a lot of what you say, however I don`t see that Israel will believe that the A/C is their Messiah. Where do you get that idea?

Thanks, Marilyn.

The prefix Anti can mean "against" or "instead of" or both "against and instead of".

About 8 years ago, I was watching this video, that it caught my attention of what the Jews are looking for regarding the messiah. At minute 0.57-1.02, the speaker, the head rabbi for Jews for Judaism at the time - said the messiah is the King of Israel.

And at the time I was in a big argument about the messiah with the Jews at their site about the messiah, and Salvation. They informed me that their position is "Savior" means savior from physical destruction, not Savior as Christianity views it.

Anyway the emphasis for them is the messiah is supposed to be the King of Israel.

So I picked up on that, and the more I researched in the gospels about Jesus - it was apparent that him being that promised great King of Israel descended from David was a major factor.

In John 12:12-15, as Jesus is riding into Jerusalem on the donkey, people were hailing him as the King of Israel - that comes in the name of the Lord.

Shorty afterwards, after the Jewish leaders conspired to have him killed, and on the cross, with "King of the Jews" sign placed by Pilate - Jesus was mocked by the same Jewish leaders... as "Christ the King of Israel", Mark 15:32.

Then I was reading where the woman at the well, in John 4:25, made the connection of the term Christ as equivalent to the Messiah.

Okay, that is not all.

I was reading in Deuteronomy that Moses made it a law that all of the future leaders of Israel, on the feast of tabernacles, were to give a big speech to the nation of Israel, confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant on a 7 years interval, Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

Added to that, some more information from the Jews on what they believe, is that the new covenant of Jeremiah 31:31, does not mean new, but a "renewal" of the existing Mt. Sinai covenant. Which confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant for seven years - the one we read about in Daniel 9:27 would be a perfect fit - the renewal of the Mt. Sinai covenant as the Jews expect.

So when all those things are put together what the Jews expect of the messiah - the King of Israel - and in fact Jesus was the rightful King of Israel - called "Christ the King of Israel" even by them who opposed him - taking "Anti" placing it in front of "Christ" to get Antichrist, the Antichrist is someone who will be believed by the Jews to be the King of Israel.... "instead of and against" Jesus the rightful King of Israel.

Wait, there's more, that ties into this King of Israel concept. We have a person called the false prophet in Revelation. There's appears to be more to it than the religious spokesman for when the person becomes the beast....

What the Jews believe about the messiah - they believe that when the messiah comes, in order to become the King of Israel, he must be anointed by a known prophet.

Who would that known prophet be? Well every passover, they set a dinner place for Elijah, in anticipation of his coming to prepare for the messianic age.

Where they get that a known prophet has to anoint the person is the only three kings over united Israel were Saul and David, anointed by Samuel the prophet, and Solomon by Nathan the prophet.

So in all likelyhood, the false prophet will claim to be Elijah. And in fact, in Revelation 13, he later calls fire down from heaven, like Elijah did in his episode against the prophets of Baal.
___________________________________________________________________________________
Okay it all adds up, the Antichrist to be anointed by the false prophet as the King of Israel.... but there is a big problem!

The problem is this...

Most of the prophecies regarding the person is as King of the fourth empire - the Roman Empire, not as the King of Israel. And he is the 7th (Revelation 17:10) king and then later the 8th king (Revelation 17:11, the beast).

So that is where we have to start putting together the whole scenario... to satisfy him being the King of the Roman Empire and at one point the King of Israel (the Antichrist).

The person starts out as the leader of the EU, 7th Caesar family King of the Roman Empire, as the little horn. He is not the Antichrist, King of Israel, yet.

Then following Gog/Magog, is the prince who shall come, a transitional role, which he will be thought by the Jews as their messiah... because it will appear to them that he fits the messiah requirements (there's some more on that, but I need to keep this post short from too much information to digest).

And is anointed the King of Israel by the false prophet. Which then as the leader of Israel, playing the part, confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years, the big speech to the nation, as Moses required by in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

Goes good, for a while, as the Jews and the world are thinking Peace and Safety, early stages of the Messianic Era. When about 3 years into it, the person goes bad and thinks he has attained God-hood. Which ends his Antichrist, King of Israel, period, as the Jews are not going to tolerate that claim.

As the revealed man of sin, another transitional role, but this time on his way to becoming the beast. He is killed, then brought back to life - as the beast, reverting back to his original power base the EU, as his kingdom (Revelation 17:17), the 8th Caesar family King of the Roman Empire.

 

[Ronald]

Ronald, I agree that regarding Zechariah 14. And at the time Jesus returns, the Jews will have become believers in Jesus.

But right now they are not, and will make a big mistake by thinking the prince who shall come right after Gog/Magog is their messiah. Until he goes bad and betrays them, and becomes the beast in Revelation.

Ronald, regarding Jesus stopping the sacrifices, the sacrifices did not stop until almost 40 years later. The confirmation of the covenant for 7 years is something that Moses required of all future leaders of Israel in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

Regardless whether the stiff-necked unbeliever Pharisees kept performing sacrifices, they were dead, without purpose, without any atonement, for Jesus was the final sacrifice.
As far as the Jews being deceived by the A.C., 2/3 will, but 1/3 will be saved ( or more). Since several verses suggest "two in the field" and one be taken which is 50 %, that could be. But every eye will see Him ... and they will mourn, realizing Jesus is the Messiah. Again, in Rev. 7, they are sealed before the harm comes to the earth.

 

[Douggg]

Regardless whether the stiff-necked unbeliever Pharisees kept performing sacrifices, they were dead, without purpose, without any atonement, for Jesus was the final sacrifice.

The reality is though the sacrifices did not cease.

Again, in Rev. 7, they are sealed before the harm comes to the earth.

The timing of when the Jews turn to Jesus is in Revelation 12:10 at the time when Satan and his angels are cast down to earth from heaven (the second heaven, Revelation 12:7-9) in the middle part of the seven years.

The 7 years are in Revelation 12. Revelation 12:6 (the 1260 days) +Revelation 12:14 (the time, times, half time).

A way to tell that the 7 years are in Revelation 12 is by the crowns on heads and horns on the dragon. The 7 heads have their crowns, which signifies king 7 has come to power before the 7 years begin; but no crowns on the ten horns become the person is not the beast yet.

Revelation 12 - 7 years to go
7 heads have crowns
10 horns no crowns

Revelation 13 - 42 months to go
7 heads no crowns, one head mortally wounded
10 horns crowns (to rule with the beast)

 

[Ronald]

The reality is though the sacrifices did not cease.

The timing of when the Jews turn to Jesus is in Revelation 12:10 at the time when Satan and his angels are cast down to earth from heaven (the second heaven, Revelation 12:7-9) in the middle part of the seven years.

The 7 years are in Revelation 12. Revelation 12:6 (the 1260 days) +Revelation 12:14 (the time, times, half time).

A way to tell that the 7 years are in Revelation 12 is by the crowns on heads and horns on the dragon. The 7 heads have their crowns, which signifies king 7 has come to power before the 7 years begin; but no crowns on the ten horns become the person is not the beast yet.

Revelation 12 - 7 years to go
7 heads have crowns
10 horns no crowns

Revelation 13 - 42 months to go
7 heads no crowns, one head mortally wounded
10 horns crowns (to rule with the beast)

It is crucial that you understand that Revelation is not in a chronological order. We are shown different vantage points of the same events in the same time frame. And also it contains past events. Rev. 12 is historical. The sign in the heavens describes a astronomical event that appeared: Virgo, Leo, sun, moon, Jupiter as well. This woman some say is Israel,,but it could be symbolic for Mary. The child of course is Jesus. And so that is past. Satan tried to kill the child (by using Herod), so they fled into the wilderness (Egypt) for over 3 years and were protected until Herod died.
Now, some scholars believe that not only was this sign present for Jesus birth ( and the planet Jupiter that moved through Virgo for a period of nine months was actually the star that the Magi followed), but that it was also the sign of Jesus second coming. That appeared Sept 23, 2017.
I would agree with those scholars. But then you must interpret the woman as Israel, whom will be persecuted during the GT. Much of the testing is upon Israel. The world attacks them from all sides.

 

[keras]

Okay it all adds up, the Antichrist to be anointed by the false prophet as the King of Israel.... but there is a big problem!

The problem is this...

There is no Jewish State of Israel left in the holy Land.
Ove 20 prophesies tell us of their demise, excepting for a remnant. Ezekiel 21:1-16, Isaiah 29:1-4, Romans 9:27, +
The people who will migrate to and live in all of the holy land, will be every faithful Christian person. Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 7:9 and they will elect their own leaders; Hosea 1:11, Jeremiah 30:21

 

[keras]

It is crucial that you understand that Revelation is not in a chronological order. We are shown different vantage points of the same events in the same time frame.

The Seals, Trumpets and Bowls are in chron. order. They are all separate events, to occur in the sequence given, culmination with the 7 Bowl, that is Armageddon; at the Return of Jesus.

But then you must interpret the woman as Israel

The 'woman' of Revelation 12, is plainly every faithful Christian person. Proved by verse 17.

You are another who wants to have the Jews on earth while you sit it all out in heaven. Unbelievably pretentious and escapism of the worst kind. There is not the remotest chance that God is going to remove anyone; ALL will be tried and tested through everything prophesied to happen before Jesus Returns. 1 Peter 4:12

 

[Marilyn C]

The prefix Anti can mean "against" or "instead of" or both "against and instead of".

Hi Douggg,

That was quite interesting, thank you. So if the Jews believe it is their Messiah, then why do they start doing the sacrifices?

Marilyn.

 

[Douggg]

It is crucial that you understand that Revelation is not in a chronological order. We are shown different vantage points of the same events in the same time frame. And also it contains past events. Rev. 12 is historical.

The first five verses in Revelation 12 are historic. In part, that part of what John saw was to identify the woman in the chapter as Israel.

The 1260 days and the time, times, half time is not two different ways to express the same timeframe.

They run in sequence of each other, separated by the war in heaven unspecified time frame.

1260 days + the war in heaven (second heaven) timeframe + the time, times, half times = the 7 years.


Here is a chart I made, starting from when the great tribulation begins, of all the timeframes, and how I came up with the "Days". The great tribulation begins on Day 1185 of the 7 years, as the Jews begin fleeing into the wilderness, still in the 1260 day period of Revelation 12:6.

 

[Douggg]

Hi Douggg,

That was quite interesting, thank you. So if the Jews believe it is their Messiah, then why do they start doing the sacrifices?

Marilyn.

Well, they don't think the function of the messiah is to be a sacrifice for their sins.

What the Jews believe is that it is the default condition of man, that eternal life is built in, and that only them who are really evil will not take part in the world to come. So they don't believe that salvation as we know salvation is necessary.

The Jews still go by the old testament (which they call the Tanach).

So to comply with the old testament, what they want is a rebuilt temple, which all of the temple activities can resume like it was back when the temple stood. Which included the daily sacrifice and the annual Day of Atonement sacrifices.

Without a temple in place, the rabbi's teach that prayers of repentance take the place of the animal sacrifices.

 

[Ronald]

The Seals, Trumpets and Bowls are in chron. order. They are all separate events, to occur in the sequence given, culmination with the 7 Bowl, that is Armageddon; at the Return of Jesus.

The 'woman' of Revelation 12, is plainly every faithful Christian person. Proved by verse 17.

You are another who wants to have the Jews on earth while you sit it all out in heaven. Unbelievably pretentious and escapism of the worst kind. There is not the remotest chance that God is going to remove anyone; ALL will be tried and tested through everything prophesied to happen before Jesus Returns. 1 Peter 4:12

So it was you, the woman, who gave birth to Jesus ... now I understand. Thank you

 

[Ronald]

The first five verses in Revelation 12 are historic. In part, that part of what John saw was to identify the woman in the chapter as Israel.

The 1260 days and the time, times, half time is not two different ways to express the same timeframe.

They run in sequence of each other, separated by the war in heaven unspecified time frame.

1260 days + the war in heaven (second heaven) timeframe + the time, times, half times = the 7 years.


Here is a chart I made, starting from when the great tribulation begins, of all the timeframes, and how I came up with the "Days". The great tribulation begins on Day 1185 of the 7 years, as the Jews begin fleeing into the wilderness, still in the 1260 day period of Revelation 12:6.

View attachment 257389

Disagree, I'll spare you a lengthy rebuttal.

 

[keras]

So it was you, the woman, who gave birth to Jesus ... now I understand. Thank you

An ignorant and uninformed comment.
Just read Revelation 12:1-5 and understand the plain meaning of it reference to Jesus.
Then Revelation 12:6-17 refers to those who follow Jesus, the Israel of God. Proved by verse 17.

Ronald, I agree that with Dougg, any rebuttal, however true and correct, is just a waste of effort.
However for the sake of others here, it is always good to present the truth.

 

[Marilyn C]

Well, they don't think the function of the messiah is to be a sacrifice for there sins.

Hi Douggg,

I agree. However I do not think Israel will accept the Gentile Global leader as their Messiah. God has said that this wicked person will be Assyrian, from the area of Iraq and Syria. (Isa. 31: 8)

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

The first five verses in Revelation 12 are historic. In part, that part of what John saw was to identify the woman in the chapter as Israel.

The 1260 days and the time, times, half time is not two different ways to express the same timeframe.

They run in sequence of each other, separated by the war in heaven unspecified time frame.

1260 days + the war in heaven (second heaven) timeframe + the time, times, half times = the 7 years.


Here is a chart I made, starting from when the great tribulation begins, of all the timeframes, and how I came up with the "Days". The great tribulation begins on Day 1185 of the 7 years, as the Jews begin fleeing into the wilderness, still in the 1260 day period of Revelation 12:6.

View attachment 257389

Hi Dougg,

(Dan. 12: 12 - 1,290 & 45 days = 1,335)

The 45 days come to `Blessed is he who comes...` so that is way past Armageddon and the Lord coming. Remember when the Lord comes people will be judged - the armies and the sheep and goats, so most of those will not be `blessed.`

Marilyn.

 

[Douggg]

Hi Douggg,

I agree. However I do not think Israel will accept the Gentile Global leader as their Messiah. God has said that this wicked person will be Assyrian, from the area of Iraq and Syria. (Isa. 31: 8)

Marilyn.

Israel will not accept a gentile as their messiah. To be their King, a person has to be from one of the twelve tribes. That issue came up even before Israel had a (human) king, back in Deuteronomy 17.

God said to them....
14 When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me;
15 Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.

Years back, I ask that very question to the Jews over at their messiah truth site. And they said the person has to be a Jew, and cannot be a gentile. They referred me to the above passage, which I am passing on to you.

The concept that the messiah must be anointed by a known prophet, that the Jews hold to, is the anointing ceremony by the prophet is that the prophet is speaking on behalf of God, and therefore it is God choosing that person.
______________________________________________________________

The Assyrian issue will make itself clear when the time comes, imo, exactly who that will be and what role.

 

[Marilyn C]

Israel will not accept a gentile as their messiah. To be their King, a person has to be from one of the twelve tribes. That issue came up even before Israel had a (human) king, back in Deuteronomy 17.

Hi Douggg,

But you see God has told us that there would be 5 Gentile World Rulers. Four have been judged - Babylon, Medes & Persians, Greece & Rome, and the final Gentile World Ruler is forming. The leader of that will be a Gentile, as God`s word says, He has a time limit on them - `Until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.` (Luke 21: 24)

Marilyn.

 

[Douggg]

Hi Douggg,

But you see God has told us that there would be 5 Gentile World Rulers. Four have been judged - Babylon, Medes & Persians, Greece & Rome, and the final Gentile World Ruler is forming. The leader of that will be a Gentile, as God`s word says, He has a time limit on them - `Until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.` (Luke 21: 24)

Marilyn.

Marilyn, I am not disagreeing that the Kingdom of the beast is a gentile kingdom, and not Israel.


as the little horn - leader of a gentile kingdom

as the Antichrist - leader of Israel (but not approved, nor chosen by God)

as the beast beast - leader of a gentile kingdom

_________________________________________________________________________

I am not getting what you are basing "5" Gentile World Rulers ?

In Daniel 7:17 the four beasts also represent four kings.

I interpret those as...

1. Nebuchadnezzar - Babylon
2. Cyrus - Medes/Persians
3. Alexander - Greek
4. End times little horn - Roman

Who are you interpreting to be king number 4 ?

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn, I am not disagreeing that the Kingdom of the beast is a gentile kingdom, and not Israel.


as the little horn - leader of a gentile kingdom

as the Antichrist - leader of Israel (but not approved, nor chosen by God)

as the beast beast - leader of a gentile kingdom

_________________________________________________________________________

I am not getting what you are basing "5" Gentile World Rulers ?

In Daniel 7:17 the four beasts also represent four kings.

I interpret those as...

1. Nebuchadnezzar - Babylon
2. Cyrus - Medes/Persians
3. Alexander - Greek
4. End times little horn - Roman

Who are you interpreting to be king number 4 ?

Hi Douggg,

That`s good we agree that the final Global Government (of man) is Gentile, (before Israel rules).
Now I do not see that the A/C is a leader of Israel. Actually he is described as the King of the North, (the old Assyrian Empire, Dan. 11: 40)

5 World rulers are from the Great Image of the King`s dream, (Dan. 2: 38 - 43)

Dan. 7 beasts are the final 4 super powers. The 4th beast matches the 5th kingdom of the great Image.

The great Image is the overview of the 5 World Rulers, and then God gives further revelation of the 4 super powers leading up to the final World Ruler. We see that the `terrifying beast treads down the others, (Dan. 7: 7) and thus rules over them. This is Islam who will tread down the others - Commonwealth & USA, Russia & Europe.

Marilyn.

 

[Grip Docility]

I believe that we are entering the time soon when the man of sin will be revealed to the world. I seek God daily, and recently felt some concern around world events, so I began to ask God to show me if the man of sin would soon be revealed, the specific question was "did I need to prepare for it". I sought the LORD using various methods, and in all the ways I sought him the answer was, "yes you need to prepare". I have made a website at The Fake God describing how I sought God and my thoughts on this time.

Along these lines, are there any biblical or other signs that this may soon be happening.

Just don't trade your good's for ascension robes and all will be well.

When is it? Not even the Son... "knew".

Are there signs that are pretty amazing? Sure
Is the fig tree blooming? Oh yeah.