Have I blasphemed the Holy Spirit?

[NoahSK]

I know I've posted already concerning this, but I'm going to maybe put it in a different way. I read something a while back while already struggling with doubt and stuff, and I'm going to post it here:

" If I was The Devil I would manifest myself inside of a virgin, say that I am the Son of God and convince everyone that they can now be forgiven for every sin just by asking, thus opening the floodgates for an unprecedented and unending torrent of sin.

I would start with the uneducated and the poor. I would impress them with some magic tricks, teach them to pretend to eat my flesh, drink my blood and always, ALWAYS, use MY name when speaking to God.

I would most assuredly use my immortality to fool them into thinking I came back from the dead as proof of my divinity.

What better way to channel more souls away from God and straight into Hell?” - Lance Sievert

Now I know that this dude is a passionate atheist who wants nothing more than to demolish any form of religion entirely. However, when I read this, my mind went "What if he's right?" which was really odd for me, because I've been a Christian my whole life and wouldn't have ever had this though cross my mind. Anyway, I tried to reason it away by pointing out all the miracles Jesus has done, and everything like that, yet my mind would not rest. The "What if..." kept coming, and it would write off every piece of evidence I threw at it as "fake" or "a deception" or what have you. My mind would write off everything that I could conjure up for it, that it proof of Jesus being God, and call it "Satan trying to deceive you." Oh, how I hated these thoughts, and how I wished I could get rid of them and just believe in the Lord without this crap going through my head. This has caused me great emotional pain.

I would keep going back to the verses where the Pharisees were saying that Jesus' performed miracles and exorcisms by the power of Satan. Now, before this all happened, I would have said "That's ridiculous" yet, now, instead my mind would go "What if the Pharisees were right?" Now I don't actually want to believe this, in fact I wish I had never read it to begin with so the thought wouldn't be in my head. I want to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and is God, which is true. Yet my mind wants me to believe this horrible lie, and I'm scared that, well, maybe I really do believe that.

So that's where I'm at. Is this considered the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and if not, what makes the real unpardonable sin different than from what I've done. My parents have tried to reassure me by saying that it is my OCD, yet I don't see how my OCD can make me believe, or at least entertain the possibility of, all of this horrible stuff, especially since it is the ultimate, unforgivable blasphemy? How does that work?

And yes, I've already heard people say that if you're worried about it, it means you haven't done it. Yet that makes no sense. Couldn't someone at one point believe that Jesus is satanic or whatever, yet later realize they were wrong, and become frightened and want to repent? This later wanting to repent in no way changes the action they already committed.

If someone can please explain to me what all of this means, and if there's hope for me, please do. Thanks.

 

[Strathos]

I would say that just having doubts isn't blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, but if you were to insist that those Satanic ideas were true and refuse to consider otherwise, that would be.

 

[NoahSK]

I would say that just having doubts isn't blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, but if you were to insist that those Satanic ideas were true and refuse to consider otherwise, that would be.

Thanks for the reply, this makes more sense to me, I think. I mean, I don't WANT to believe these ideas, but the what ifs really settle in sometimes and I have to fight really hard to get them out.

 

[INeedGrace]

What about Paul? Surely he knew of the reports of Jesus's miracles and healings. Would Paul believe that the miracles and healings were of God and yet still persecute the new church? Something to consider here.

I want to also add here as someone who suffered this horrific fear for five years that one thing you can hold onto is John 6:37, "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." To desire Christ and His forgiveness is to come to Him. And He promises not to turn you away. That verse alone helped me to get out of that horrible fear.

Check out this article; makes some really good points.

Unforgivable? The unpardonable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Bible help and hope

 

[NoahSK]

What about Paul? Surely he knew of the reports of Jesus's miracles and healings. Would Paul believe that the miracles and healings were of God and yet still persecute the new church? Something to consider here.

I want to also add here as someone who suffered this horrific fear for five years that one thing you can hold onto is John 6:37, "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." To desire Christ and His forgiveness is to come to Him. And He promises not to turn you away. That verse alone helped me to get out of that horrible fear.

Check out this article; makes some really good points.

Unforgivable? The unpardonable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Bible help and hope

So what makes Paul different from the other Pharisees?

 

[INeedGrace]

So what makes Paul different from the other Pharisees?

Do you mean the Pharisees that accused Christ of being in concert with Beelzebub? If so, I don't think he necessarily was different. I can't imagine Paul being a violent persecutor of the new Christians yet believing that Christ's miracles were of God. He would have had to share their opinions on that. Yet he was forgiven. I guess the main thing here is that Christ was warning the Pharisees that their adamant unbelief, so adamant that they accused Him of being in league with Satan, would lead to their destruction. Not that they were without hope at that point.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I know I've posted already concerning this, but I'm going to maybe put it in a different way. I read something a while back while already struggling with doubt and stuff, and I'm going to post it here:

" If I was The Devil I would manifest myself inside of a virgin, say that I am the Son of God and convince everyone that they can now be forgiven for every sin just by asking, thus opening the floodgates for an unprecedented and unending torrent of sin.

I would start with the uneducated and the poor. I would impress them with some magic tricks, teach them to pretend to eat my flesh, drink my blood and always, ALWAYS, use MY name when speaking to God.

I would most assuredly use my immortality to fool them into thinking I came back from the dead as proof of my divinity.

What better way to channel more souls away from God and straight into Hell?” - Lance Sievert

Now I know that this dude is a passionate atheist who wants nothing more than to demolish any form of religion entirely. However, when I read this, my mind went "What if he's right?" which was really odd for me, because I've been a Christian my whole life and wouldn't have ever had this though cross my mind. Anyway, I tried to reason it away by pointing out all the miracles Jesus has done, and everything like that, yet my mind would not rest. The "What if..." kept coming, and it would write off every piece of evidence I threw at it as "fake" or "a deception" or what have you. My mind would write off everything that I could conjure up for it, that it proof of Jesus being God, and call it "Satan trying to deceive you." Oh, how I hated these thoughts, and how I wished I could get rid of them and just believe in the Lord without this crap going through my head. This has caused me great emotional pain.

I would keep going back to the verses where the Pharisees were saying that Jesus' performed miracles and exorcisms by the power of Satan. Now, before this all happened, I would have said "That's ridiculous" yet, now, instead my mind would go "What if the Pharisees were right?" Now I don't actually want to believe this, in fact I wish I had never read it to begin with so the thought wouldn't be in my head. I want to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and is God, which is true. Yet my mind wants me to believe this horrible lie, and I'm scared that, well, maybe I really do believe that.

So that's where I'm at. Is this considered the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and if not, what makes the real unpardonable sin different than from what I've done. My parents have tried to reassure me by saying that it is my OCD, yet I don't see how my OCD can make me believe, or at least entertain the possibility of, all of this horrible stuff, especially since it is the ultimate, unforgivable blasphemy? How does that work?

And yes, I've already heard people say that if you're worried about it, it means you haven't done it. Yet that makes no sense. Couldn't someone at one point believe that Jesus is satanic or whatever, yet later realize they were wrong, and become frightened and want to repent? This later wanting to repent in no way changes the action they already committed.

If someone can please explain to me what all of this means, and if there's hope for me, please do. Thanks.

I didn't have to read your post and I can tell you that the answer is no.

 

[NoahSK]

So then how can I get these horrible “doubts” out of my head? Whenever I think about what miracles Jesus has done and even Jesus’ own arguments He used when He refutes the Pharisees, my mind tries to explain those away. Like no matter what irrefutable proof I can come up with for why Jesus is God’s Son and not the other, my mind will try to refute it. I don’t know why and I can’t break the doubt. Like no amount of proof is able to take the doubt away. The only thing that comes close is Jesus fulfilling certain messianic prophecies, and even then my mind tries to refute this. I don’t know if I’m making any sense, but maybe someone will understand what I’m saying. Also, how can I have saving faith while having these kinds of doubts? Does this mean I’m not saved?

 

[Shawb]

So then how can I get these horrible “doubts” out of my head? Whenever I think about what miracles Jesus has done and even Jesus’ own arguments He used when He refutes the Pharisees, my mind tries to explain those away. Like no matter what irrefutable proof I can come up with for why Jesus is God’s Son and not the other, my mind will try to refute it. I don’t know why and I can’t break the doubt. Like no amount of proof is able to take the doubt away. The only thing that comes close is Jesus fulfilling certain messianic prophecies, and even then my mind tries to refute this. I don’t know if I’m making any sense, but maybe someone will understand what I’m saying. Also, how can I have saving faith while having these kinds of doubts? Does this mean I’m not saved?

It reminds me of what I’m going through. But remember this is not you it’s your OCD. You are a believer in Christ. You don’t want these thoughts. God knows you he cannot be deceived by faulty messages your brain is sending. If it were up to me and you we would never think such things. We must hold on to faith and hold on to hope that Christ will come for us and help us see the truth. As for the proofs I understand this sentiment as well for I have these thoughts as well. I recommend looking up emotional doubt by Gary Harbamas sorry if I spelled it wrong but it might help. Also you could look here http://ocdandchristianity.com/?p=775. May the LORD Jesus Christ be with you and me through our struggles.

 

[NoahSK]

It reminds me of what I’m going through. But remember this is not you it’s your OCD. You are a believer in Christ. You don’t want these thoughts. God knows you he cannot be deceived by faulty messages your brain is sending. If it were up to me and you we would never think such things. We must hold on to faith and hold on to hope that Christ will come for us and help us see the truth. As for the proofs I understand this sentiment as well for I have these thoughts as well. I recommend looking up emotional doubt by Gary Harbamas sorry if I spelled it wrong but it might help. Also you could look here http://ocdandchristianity.com/?p=775. May the LORD Jesus Christ be with you and me through our struggles.

I’ll check them out. Can you kind of summarize what the emotional doubt thing talks about?

 

[NoahSK]

And @INeedGrace is that website that you linked trustworthy? I’m not sure; I’ve read through some of the testimonies of people who describe themselves as being antagonizing toward Christians and angry at God and taking part in the occult and satanic stuff AFTER being “born-again.” I don’t know about you, but someone practically becoming a satanist after being “born again” seems a little strange. Also, one such testimony from someone describes having 8 demons or something after being born again, which isn’t biblical. You can’t be possessed by a demon and the Holy Spirit at the same time. Now, I don’t know if he/she was specifically referring to being possessed per say, but still, I find that a little fishy.

 

[Mari17]

So then how can I get these horrible “doubts” out of my head? Whenever I think about what miracles Jesus has done and even Jesus’ own arguments He used when He refutes the Pharisees, my mind tries to explain those away. Like no matter what irrefutable proof I can come up with for why Jesus is God’s Son and not the other, my mind will try to refute it. I don’t know why and I can’t break the doubt. Like no amount of proof is able to take the doubt away. The only thing that comes close is Jesus fulfilling certain messianic prophecies, and even then my mind tries to refute this. I don’t know if I’m making any sense, but maybe someone will understand what I’m saying. Also, how can I have saving faith while having these kinds of doubts? Does this mean I’m not saved?

No; it means you have OCD. People with OCD doubt ALL THE TIME, about all different things. Thus why it's dubbed the "doubting disease." "Did I check the door? Did I wash my hands well enough? Did I drive over someone in the road? Did I lie because I didn't say 'maybe' with my opinion? Did I lose my salvation because my belief isn't 'strong' enough? Did I blaspheme? Did I feel as though I wanted to blaspheme? Did I commit a violent act? Did I feel as though I wanted to commit a violent act? What if, what if, what if...?" The list goes on and on. And yes, you're absolutely right - because of your obsessive doubt, NO argument will take the doubt away. It's because your mind is on hyper-analyze mode, so it will always find a "loophole" even in a rock-solid argument; it will always find a way to doubt and second-guess, because it wants you to stay afraid. It's like your hyper-analyzing supersedes your common sense. For example, someone with a germ obsession will wash their hands for a normal amount of time, but they can't rest with that, because in their minds their hands have to be 1,000% clean. No shadow of a doubt. There can't be one iota of one germ left on their hands, because they are being over-fearful about having unwashed hands - their brains are exaggerating the risk about a million times more than the actual risk. So their fear of having unwashed hands is off the charts, and they can't stop washing their hands, even though they "know" they've washed them a normal length of time. But their analyzing causes them to second-guess: "How do I KNOW they're clean? They don't FEEL clean. I can't possibly see into every crack and crevice, I can't possibly tell if there's a tiny speck of dirt or a germ left." Their fear is so humongous that, even though they know it's over the top, they keep washing and washing until they "feel" clean. Or they ask for reassurance - but again, because it is OCD, they never feel satisfied and the fear always comes back, which leads them back to their compulsion, the thing they do to relieve the anxiety - hand washing.

Now, practically speaking, the way to stop obsessing is to stop your compulsions. This feels basically impossible, because your brain is saying "danger danger danger" and making you do your compulsions to relieve that sense of danger. You have to be incredibly courageous to stand up and say "no, I'm not doing that, I'm not listening to you," to the OCD; but it doesn't feel like courage, it feels like you're going against your conscience and doing something terrible. It basically requires a leap of faith. You have to trust God, and you have to trust others, even when that feels impossible.

But - you CAN do it. Many, many people with OCD have, and have lived to tell the tale. I'm praying that God will give you the courage to say "no," the wisdom and clarity to recognize that perhaps, after all, this terrible fear is OCD and it is OK to say no to it.

 

[INeedGrace]

And @INeedGrace is that website that you linked trustworthy? I’m not sure; I’ve read through some of the testimonies of people who describe themselves as being antagonizing toward Christians and angry at God and taking part in the occult and satanic stuff AFTER being “born-again.” I don’t know about you, but someone practically becoming a satanist after being “born again” seems a little strange. Also, one such testimony from someone describes having 8 demons or something after being born again, which isn’t biblical. You can’t be possessed by a demon and the Holy Spirit at the same time. Now, I don’t know if he/she was specifically referring to being possessed per say, but still, I find that a little fishy.

Honestly, I haven't read much on that site, so if you are wary then probably best to not go there. Not saying the testimonies you mentioned are necessarily untrue, it probably seemed true to those people. I do think the article I linked was pretty good. Have you looked around the web for other material to read? Your problem is a lot more common than you may imagine. Also, have you considered medication? I've taken Lexapro in the past and it works wonders for OCD and anxiety.

 

[NoahSK]

Honestly, I haven't read much on that site, so if you are wary then probably best to not go there. Not saying the testimonies you mentioned are necessarily untrue, it probably seemed true to those people. I do think the article I linked was pretty good. Have you looked around the web for other material to read? Your problem is a lot more common than you may imagine. Also, have you considered medication? I've taken Lexapro in the past and it works wonders for OCD and anxiety.

See, the problem with the article you sent is it says that if you change your mind about Jesus and you instead believe that He is the Son of God, then you’re saved. However, I’m dealing with these doubts after already experiencing God in my life and professing faith in Him. Isn’t that essentially apostasy? I just don’t know what to do; it’s like my mind wants to believe everything except what is right. I just don’t know what to do; I go from doubting whether the Jews are right and Jesus wasn’t the Messiah, to doubting the existence of God in general. I think one of the things that trips me up and makes me doubt Jesus as the messiah is that His teachings seem to go against those of the Jews at that time, which I thought were from God. I know that Jesus said He came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it, but it seems like He is a lot more lenient on things like that. I don’t know; I hate this and just want to believe without a doubt that Jesus is the messiah, but it seems like my brain doesn’t want to.

 

[Mari17]

See, the problem with the article you sent is it says that if you change your mind about Jesus and you instead believe that He is the Son of God, then you’re saved. However, I’m dealing with these doubts after already experiencing God in my life and professing faith in Him. Isn’t that essentially apostasy? I just don’t know what to do; it’s like my mind wants to believe everything except what is right. I just don’t know what to do; I go from doubting whether the Jews are right and Jesus wasn’t the Messiah, to doubting the existence of God in general. I think one of the things that trips me up and makes me doubt Jesus as the messiah is that His teachings seem to go against those of the Jews at that time, which I thought were from God. I know that Jesus said He came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it, but it seems like He is a lot more lenient on things like that. I don’t know; I hate this and just want to believe without a doubt that Jesus is the messiah, but it seems like my brain doesn’t want to.

Are you able to take a leap of faith and treat these doubts as OCD?

 

[NoahSK]

Are you able to take a leap of faith and treat these doubts as OCD?

I don’t know; a lot more has happened in my life recently that have caused me to question my salvation; so even if I haven’t truly blasphemed the Holy Spirit, I probably screwed up somewhere else. If you want, you can read my newest thread I posted today to see where I’m at right now.

 

[Mari17]

I don’t know; a lot more has happened in my life recently that have caused me to question my salvation; so even if I haven’t truly blasphemed the Holy Spirit, I probably screwed up somewhere else. If you want, you can read my newest thread I posted today to see where I’m at right now.

I did. The answer is actually simple; it's just the OCD that makes it complicated. Simply put:
1. You are a sinner, but
2. God's grace covers you if you ask for His forgiveness and,
3. His salvation is available for the asking, so if you've asked for it (which you have),
4. You are not an apostate.
5. You do have OCD, which is where all your doubts are coming from, and that means you need to work on that. The way to do that is to:
6. Delay trying to figure all this out right now. Each new thought, each new angle the OCD uses to try to convince you that you have lost your salvation, you MUST ignore. That means refusing to research, to keep asking for reassurance, to ruminate. Each moment you have a choice: listen to the obsessive doubt, or forge ahead and do what you would normally do with that moment. Each time you make a choice to pay attention to and cater to the doubt, your OCD becomes stronger. Each time you choose to ignore it and do something else, you become stronger. Eventually, through many added moments of saying no to the OCD, you become stronger, you see more clearly, and you pull up out of the OCD fog.

It takes A LOT of courage to say no to the OCD. A lot. But each time counts. Each time you can make yourself, it makes you stronger. Eventually, you have to take a deep breath, as though you're jumping off the edge of a cliff, and try it. And then try it again. And again and again and again. And someday, you will see...

That this is all just OCD.

 

[INeedGrace]

See, the problem with the article you sent is it says that if you change your mind about Jesus and you instead believe that He is the Son of God, then you’re saved. However, I’m dealing with these doubts after already experiencing God in my life and professing faith in Him. Isn’t that essentially apostasy? I just don’t know what to do; it’s like my mind wants to believe everything except what is right. I just don’t know what to do; I go from doubting whether the Jews are right and Jesus wasn’t the Messiah, to doubting the existence of God in general. I think one of the things that trips me up and makes me doubt Jesus as the messiah is that His teachings seem to go against those of the Jews at that time, which I thought were from God. I know that Jesus said He came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it, but it seems like He is a lot more lenient on things like that. I don’t know; I hate this and just want to believe without a doubt that Jesus is the messiah, but it seems like my brain doesn’t want to.

I would think apostasy would have the element of finality; burning one's bridges so to speak. As for your doubts, they're just doubts, questions. If you were to bring your questions to a scholar or theologian, I have no doubt that none of them would recoil in horror and say your are irrevocably lost.