Can a rape victim determine the value of their unborn child?

Aldebaran

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They are lies because you hold SCOTUS higher than God. God's is not just higher when it comes to morality but everything

There will be people taking the mark of the beast someday because of what the law says at the time. But the book of Daniel features examples of those who put God above man, even if that man is a King.
 
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Aldebaran

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This is exactly what I have been saying - that legality does not make it moral or right. I truly believe that. The problem is people don't realize because of the First Amendment, the government can't use Scriptures to decide when a human life begins. Their mistake was not using science.

No, it's true that they can't. But if science indicates what the bible says is true, then it's up to us to elect lawmakers that value both.
 
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GodLovesCats

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They are lies because you hold SCOTUS higher than God. God's is not just higher when it comes to morality but everything

I am not holding the SCOTUS higher than God. I am only saying how American law works and that in our country, secular law mandates separation from God's laws in determining what laws should be in place or what the SCOTUS should rule. It is all about how our government works. I do not understand why you all keep missing this fact that was so clearly explained.
 
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GodLovesCats

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There will be people taking the mark of the beast someday because of what the law says at the time. But the book of Daniel features examples of those who put God above man, even if that man is a King.

You do realize we are not talking about our own actions, right? The book of Daniel has nothing to do with the legality of abortion.
 
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kiwimac

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The bible doesn't detail all the different ways that people were murdered back in those days.

It simply states that killing is wrong. It also states, as one of the two parts to Christ's "new" commandment, that holds all the commandments in one...... Treat others like you would want to be treated..

So, if you wouldn't mind someone cutting you into pieces.... then... I guess you're ok.

You still haven't told me at what stage a human child obtains their human rights...........

Yes, I did. At birth.
 
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GodLovesCats

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The legal right to live begins whenever a fetus is viable. The problem with this ruling is, of course, people can't agree on when that happens. Some say 24 weeks. Others say 26. I am certainly not the only person who thinks viability comes later. So any court ruling must definite a specific age of the embryo or fetus to limit abortions, not just say, "This law is unconstitutional."
 
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When did I say the right to have an abortion is moral just because it is legal? I was only stating the facts, which are:
  1. The right to life in America is determined by the U.S. Constitution and current federal laws.
  2. Supreme Court rulings can only be based on what the majority of nine judges believe, not the Bible.
So are you going on the record right now and say that although abortion is legal, it is morally wrong? Are you going to go on the record and say that although abortion is legal in a secular sense, biblically, abortion is a sin equivalent to murder and that no Christian ought to support such a decision because it goes against the word of God?
 
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GodLovesCats

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So are you going on the record right now and say that although abortion is legal, it is morally wrong? Are you going to go on the record and say that although abortion is legal in a secular sense, biblically, abortion is a sin equivalent to murder and that no Christian ought to support such a decision because it goes against the word of God?

I have already stated in several threads human life begins at fertilization and abortion is not approved by the Lord. This whole argument is about people not understanding how the First Amendment affects how a federal court must rule on abortion even though it is morally wrong.

BTW abortion is not morally wrong when a mother must choose between her own life and the baby's life.
 
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Tutorman

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I am not holding the SCOTUS higher than God. I am only saying how American law works and that in our country, secular law mandates separation from God's laws in determining what laws should be in place or what the SCOTUS should rule. It is all about how our government works. I do not understand why you all keep missing this fact that was so clearly explained.

Because it doesn't matter, period. I could actually see you defend euthanasia if it became law regardless of what God says. My ancestors were genocide and it was law, I could see you support that because it's law. Who the freak cares what man's law are God's are more important. I am leaving this thread before I get banned because I am amazed at someone who is a believer support murdr just because it is the law.
 
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Tutorman

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There will be people taking the mark of the beast someday because of what the law says at the time. But the book of Daniel features examples of those who put God above man, even if that man is a King.

Many do, even in this thread
 
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I have already stated in several threads human life begins at fertilization and abortion is not approved by the Lord.
You are talking from two sides of your face. You say this but you then also say it is "immoral to force rape victims to carry a baby to term against her will and religious beliefs."
They just know it is immoral to force rape victims to carry a baby to term against her will and religious beliefs.
You then say that abortion is preferable over adoption or foster homes.
It sickens me that pro-lifers think it is better to let the mother suffer than her child who she will give up anyway.
Then you say that abortion is a human right that "God gave all his people" because of their "body autonomy." How can you say that abortion is "not approved by the Lord" and say that it is "God given human right."?
Nobody is making up a red herring argument by saying women have body autonomy and that is a human right that cannot be taken away. God gave all of His people body autonomy.
Then you say that abortion isn't wrong if a pregnant teenager is raped. If abortion is "not approved by the Lord" why on earth would you not only approve of a raped teenager having an abortion, but go on to say that it is "immoral and unethical" to prevent what you claim to be unapproved by the Lord.
It is not "wrong" for a pregnant teenager who was raped before she could drive, get a job, and stop going to school to consider having an abortion. I cannot be convinced that forcing her to stay pregnant for a full 9 months is moral and ehtical without proof she has no risk of suffering physically, mentally, and socially.
You say that human life begins at fertilization and abortion is not approved by the Lord, yet you say "abortions should be allowed" if the baby is "not viable." Are you then saying that you support something unapproved by the Lord because of viability?
My standard for a right to life as it pertains to the thread topic (when abortions should be allowed, if a fetus should be a preemie, etc.) is that fetuses are not "viable" outside the uterus if they need to spend a lot of time in the NICU with plastic tubes in their tiny noses and mouths,
You then say that "God's law is higher" in a moral sense. But you also say it is "immoral" and "unethical" to "force a pregnant teenager to carry a baby to term? You say abortion is not "approved by the Lord" and the "God's law is higher in a moral sense" yet you have demonstrated on this thread in multiple occasions that you are willing to compromise God's superior moral law to justify and make excuses for immoral decisions.
God's law is higher when it comes to morality.

So I will ask you again, if abortion is a sin. Why, as a Christian, are you willing to disregard God's moral law and approve of immorality?
 
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GodLovesCats

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I unwatched this thread because nobody is willing to accept the facts when I post them unless they share my views, no matter how clearly they are explained. I welcome private messages from anyone who really wants to understand why raped girls should be allowed to have abortions and chat in a civil manner.
 
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Tutorman

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I unwatched this thread because nobody is willing to accept the facts when I post them unless they share my views, no matter how clearly they are explained. I welcome private messages from anyone who really wants to understand why raped girls should be allowed to have abortions and chat in a civil manner.

You have not explained anything just that you approve of baby murder because it's man's law
 
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GodLovesCats

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Then you say that abortion is a human right that "God gave all his people" because of their "body autonomy." How can you say that abortion is "not approved by the Lord" and say that it is "God given human right."?

No, I said abortoin is a legal right and humans have body autonomy at the time that abortion is illegal. It was all about secular law, not God's law, to define when a fetus has legal rights.
 
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No, I said abortoin is a legal right and humans have body autonomy at the time that abortion is illegal. It was all about secular law, not God's law, to define when a fetus has legal rights.
No, you said:
Nobody is making up a red herring argument by saying women have body autonomy and that is a human right that cannot be taken away. God gave all of His people body autonomy. It is part of human nature. If women do not have body autonomy, neither do men, and nobody is fighting a war on men.
You said, that "bodily autonomy" is a human right that "God gave all His people." Therefore, you said that abortion is a human right that God gave all his people because of body autonomy. That is much more than merely saying that bodily autonomy and abortion is a "legal" right. These are your own words quoted above.
 
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GodLovesCats

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You have not explained anything just that you approve of baby murder because it's man's law

I never said I support murder because it is man's law. EVER. I only said because of man's law, women do have the legal right to have abortions and fetuses do not have rights until they are viable. That is just the truht about the country we live in. I do not support murdering unborn babies just becaues it is the law. In fact, if rape and incest victims could get everything they need to get through nine months of pregnancy it would be much easier for me to oppose more abortions.
 
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JacksBratt

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OK then, here it is . . . I was specifically talking about the first time a fetus is viable, which is the time the unborn baby has legal rights. This is not comparable to a comatose person, who already has legal rights - including how people can kill him/her if given permission to. And I am not blind, just saying what is legal, even though it is immoral. People can change my mind about what the Bible says, but the Bible is not the Constitution that all Americans must live by.
OK, when does the baby get it's legal rights...

And... is not the word of God what we, Christians, live by, first and foremost over any law of man?
 
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GodLovesCats

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OK, when does the baby get its legal rights...

And... is not the word of God what we, Christians, live by, first and foremost over any law of man?

Viability

There is a long thread on CF about obeying God's law when man's law contradicts it. I participated in that one.
 
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JacksBratt

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Viability

There is a long thread on CF about obeying God's law when man's law contradicts it. I participated in that one.
So, the fetus get's it's rights when it becomes viable and it's viable when it gets it's rights?

What makes a fetus "viable"?

At what point does a child get rights?
 
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GodLovesCats

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So, the fetus gets i's rights when it becomes viable and it's viable when it gets its rights?

What makes a fetus "viable"?

At what point does a child get rights?

I already answered this question a while back. However, it is unlikely the majority agrees with me on this because of new techonlogy helping babies stay alive in neonatal care units, and Iv respect that.
 
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