Pantheism, or Panentheism?

But_First_Coffee

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Pantheism = All is God :wedding:

Panentheism = God is greater than the universe.:milkyway:

What do you think? What do you feel the bible has outlined to you about this?


*So sorry if it's a repeat of an old topic, I am new here. :innocent:

EDIT: I decided to elaborate more. I read the book "1000 Gifts" by Ann Voskamp. It is all about looking at the little blessings you have and thanking God for them, and seeing them as God loving YOU personally through them. As someone who tends to worry and be skeptical or a realist, this was good for my soul to receive this inspiration to stop looking for more and instead enjoy what's in front of me.
HOWEVER, I was googling reviews of her book and stumbled across one where someone who is experienced in theology and literature said that she appears to have confused Pantheism with Panentheism. Towards the middle of the book she REALLY gets into how all the little things around her, the positives, inspires what she calls "eucharisteo" (Joy and thanks in Greek) to a level where Christ is "making love to her" ... not in a perverted way of course. But like he's romancing her soul. And that's what made this one book reviewer think she had them confused. So, since I suffer a more elementary level understanding of the bible and what it is to have a relationship with God, I wanted some insight.
 
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Berean
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Pantheism-God is everything.
Panentheism-God is IN everything.

God the creator definitely is not the creation.

God may be working through all things affecting life's courses but He doesn't 'dwell' in all things like so many New Agers would lead us to believe.

God is definitely greater than the created universe both visible and invisible.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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I believe that those who believe in the extreme edition of the "God is in control of everything" theory are holding to a form of pantheism. They may deny it, but since they think the universe is a being controlled by God down to the revolution of electrons in every atom... then what we are seeing is the externalization of the mind of God. Every instant is a snapshot of the mind of God at that moment.
All of creation is essentially the mind of God being played out on a stage... which is also God.
 
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icxn

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God is/has neither energy nor mass, so place is not a quality that describes His nature... but we can make an approximation and say that He is everywhere, permeating everything while not being part of anything.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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The question, I think, is whether God is separate from His creation? The answer, I believe, is yes. He is separate. People talk about man having free will. I believe that we exist in a creation of the possible where everything in creation is "free" to interact with every other element in creation all according to the established rules laid down at creation. There is a "course of nature" that governs creation.
Of course God can and does intervene whenever He chooses. But, IMHO, He allows creation to proceed according to the established rules. Furthermore, we cannot assess the truth about God or His will by viewing the events of the world around us. We only see God in nature when He intervenes.
The gospel itself is an intervention against nature, as is every healing, answered prayer, and miracle.
Hence, God is not in "control of everything" and He is on the outside looking in, interviewing when necessary.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Pantheism = All is God :wedding:

Panentheism = God is greater than the universe.:milkyway:

What do you think? What do you feel the bible has outlined to you about this?


*So sorry if it's a repeat of an old topic, I am new here. :innocent:

Pantheism is out-and-out heretical, it denies the distinction between the Uncreated and the created, between the Maker of all things, and the things He has made.

There is, in a sense, a way in which panENtheism is true: Namely that God is immanent in His creation. This is where a very fundamental distinction between God's Essence and God's Energies (His works, His acts, His grace, etc) is really important. God's Essence is completely and utterly unknowable, it is completely and entirely other, God's radical transcendence from everything; but God makes Himself known and works through His creation to make Himself known, and in this way God is present throughout all things, and so "In Him we live and move and have our being" (Acts 17:28), and also, "one God and Father of all, who is over all, through all, and in all." (Ephesians 4:6).

So panENtheism is true only and insofar as we speak of God's working and active presence through His creation.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Berean
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EDIT: I decided to elaborate more. I read the book "1000 Gifts" by Ann Voskamp. It is all about looking at the little blessings you have and thanking God for them, and seeing them as God loving YOU personally through them. As someone who tends to worry and be skeptical or a realist, this was good for my soul to receive this inspiration to stop looking for more and instead enjoy what's in front of me.
HOWEVER, I was googling reviews of her book and stumbled across one where someone who is experienced in theology and literature said that she appears to have confused Pantheism with Panentheism. Towards the middle of the book she REALLY gets into how all the little things around her, the positives, inspires what she calls "eucharisteo" (Joy and thanks in Greek) to a level where Christ is "making love to her" ... not in a perverted way of course. But like he's romancing her soul. And that's what made this one book reviewer think she had them confused. So, since I suffer a more elementary level understanding of the bible and what it is to have a relationship with God, I wanted some insight.

My wife has read some Voskamp to me, and my impression is that she borders on the mystical especially quoting from the desert Fathers and those who are pupils of them.

It is a good thing to give thanks, even looking for the tiny and unexpected blessings.
The best place to find God loving us is in the Gospel message at Calvary dying for our sins. That does not change where circumstances and our subjective interpretation of them do.
 
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Berean
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An interesting clip (from a huge article) on the topic of 'pantheism' from the McClintock Cyclopedia...

Pantheism, then, strictly speaking, is the doctrine of the necessary and eternal co-existence of the finite and the infinite of the absolute consubstantiality of God and nature considered as two different but inseparable aspects of universal existence. True, this doctrine conducts to the same result as atheism, yet theoretically it is widely different, and starts from exactly the opposite premise. The Atheist begins with nature, perceives and recognizes the material universe, but denies that there is any God; the Pantheist starts with the assumption of the existence of a Divine Being as a truth which the soul cannot deny, and maintains that he is identical with nature-in other words, denies that there is any nature except God. Quite differently, the Christian maintains the existence of both God and nature. He accepts the doctrine of Scripture, which is that God existed before the universe, and is ever apart from it and above it; for he made it by a spontaneous act, and in infinite wisdom and power still upholds it. It is a revelation of him but no part of him; not God, but the voluntary manifestation of God. It is not what he is, but what he has willed to be. In other words, God is the Being present everywhere in and controlling nature, as the soul the body, but distinct from it.
 
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But_First_Coffee

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What about panemtheism? The elevation of President Snow as a god. Or the cult following of Hunger Games as a religion.

Sorry, that was a joke. Couldn't resist.

May the odds be ever in your favor. *does the mockingjay salute*
 
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