Can a rape victim determine the value of their unborn child?

JacksBratt

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That is what I would do - get spayed before I had a chance to accidentally have a baby.
People are not dogs. They don't get Spayed or neutered.

I am learning so much about you....
 
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JacksBratt

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My standard for a right to life as it pertains to the thread topic (when abortions should be allowed, if a fetus should be a preemie, etc.) is that fetuses are not "viable" outside the uterus if they need to spend a a lot of timein the NICU with plastic tubes in their tiny noses and nouths,
So, if you were in a coma... we could stab you and cut you into pieces? And it would not be murder?
 
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Nige55

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Pro-choice people are not, and never have been or will be, pro-abortion. They just know it is immoral to force rape victims to carry a baby to term against her will and religious beliefs.

Sorry, this is not the full picture at all. Comfortably over 90% of abortions are elective. To try to claim that pro-choice people simply "know it is immoral to force rape victims......etc etc" discounts the absolute, overwhelming majority who fight for the 'right' to choose purely out of convenience.
 
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Nige55

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I don't know the word audacity. I also don't know why you assume pro-choice people want to dictate pro-life people.

You don't know why ? Really ??!! Ever heard phrases such 'it's a womans' choice', 'none of mens' business', etc. I'm not assuming anything, we ARE being dictated to.
 
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Nige55

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The opposite is true: pro-lifers want to push theology against legal and biological information. Christians have no business proclaiming their faith controls the law in a country that was founded on total religious freedom (see hte First Amendment), which is what pro-life people do.

A Christian, by way of what their faith teaches actually should want for their values to lead law in a country, as they believe them to be God's perfect laws. It's dangerous for a country NOT to follow them !

Btw, it's not true at all. There are many pro lifers who are not Christians, and see taking that babies life as murder.
It's funny that proclaiming faith is ok when it come to thou shalt not murder, but that same faith is rejected when it's an issue that doesn't sit well with some (and for that some, it's 90%+ out of inconvenience).
 
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GodLovesCats

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Why does viability matter, exactly, in determining whether the fetus has a right to live? For the record, if I get into a car accident and need to be hooked up to machines to live, no one has the right to kill me.

The Roe vs. Wade decision only allows abortion up to viability.

And if you were brain dead, people would have the right to kill you.
 
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GodLovesCats

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So, if you were in a coma... we could stab you and cut you into pieces? And it would not be murder?

If I was in a coma all medical staff would do is unhook tubes and machines. You have no analogy.
 
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Davidnic

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Also there's an induced medical coma for certain procedures where you know when the person will wake up. If viability without machines was the condition then that person while in that induced medical coma lacks their rights.

For a baby with a due date the induced medical coma is a direct analogy for the argument of viability.

The only difference is the person in the coma has already been born. So to refute that we go back to the already disproven birth is the point where humanity and human rights begin. Because it's an arbitrary point.

Back again to the fact that you must have a non arbitrary point.

Plus the already been born argument has been refuted in the pro-choice argument itself by saying that someone has the right to remove machines.
 
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Davidnic

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GodLovesCats

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Sorry, this is not the full picture at all. Comfortably over 90% of abortions are elective. To try to claim that pro-choice people simply "know it is immoral to force rape victims......etc etc" discounts the absolute, overwhelming majority who fight for the 'right' to choose purely out of convenience.

I never said it is the full picture. Abortion just for convenience is wrong. That does not mean abortion ban laws should lack exceptions for rape and incest.
 
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Davidnic

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No, I meant castration.

People just don't want to be compared to cats.

People generally don't get voluntarily castrated the removal of the testes. They do get a vasectomy the restriction of the vas deferens.

Two distinctly different medical procedures
 
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parousia70

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Ahhh... IC

Touching article, but it contains Several logical fallacies and false comparisons.
False comparison #1
First, the violinist is artificially attached to the woman. A mother's unborn baby, however, is not surgically connected, nor was it ever "attached" to her. Instead, the baby is being produced by the mother's own body by the natural process of reproduction.

This seems to indicate this "process" happens immaculately, with the woman producing the offspring all by herself... that it "just happens naturally".

False comparison #2
A child is not an invader, though, a parasite living off his mother. A mother's womb is the baby's natural environment. Eileen McDonagh wants us to believe that the child growing inside of a woman is trespassing. One trespasses when he's not in his rightful place, but a baby developing in the womb belongs there.

Again, indicating the Baby just spontaneously showed up, developed solely out of the woman's body alone... no indication that the trespasser was "put there" by the actions of anyone else...

#3
In the violinist illustration, the woman might be justified withholding life-giving treatment from the musician under these circumstances. Abortion, though, is not merely withholding treatment. It is actively taking another human being's life through poisoning or dismemberment. A more accurate parallel with abortion would be to crush the violinist or cut him into pieces before unplugging him.

Rather a more accurate parallel would be the Violinist orchestrated (no pun intended) the abduction of the woman against her will and she woke up and fought back with lethal force, which would be totally justified.

Shall I go on?
 
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Davidnic

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