What about those who never knew Jesus?

Tutorman

Charismatic Episcopalian
Jun 20, 2017
1,637
1,349
52
california
✟103,246.00
Country
United States
Faith
Episcopalian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
  • Prayers
Reactions: Not David
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Okay, so the bible says, "Jesus will know all and all will come to know Jesus." So what happens to those born in a Buddhist country? Let me take that one step further. A group of people are born in a Buddhist country, never learned about Jesus Christ in school, and noone ever taught them about Jesus, so they never had the opportunity to switch religions until they die. They are isolated tribes in Africa and other parts of the world that live how people live back in the stone age. Odds are, noone will ever be able to reach them and teach them about Jesus, and even if they could, they would have to speak their language to teach them. So these people are unfarily condemned to Hell?
some bury their talents, others multiply what little they have.
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,576
6,063
EST
✟992,249.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Okay, so the bible says, "Jesus will know all and all will come to know Jesus." So what happens to those born in a Buddhist country? Let me take that one step further. A group of people are born in a Buddhist country, never learned about Jesus Christ in school, and noone ever taught them about Jesus, so they never had the opportunity to switch religions until they die. They are isolated tribes in Africa and other parts of the world that live how people live back in the stone age. Odds are, noone will ever be able to reach them and teach them about Jesus, and even if they could, they would have to speak their language to teach them. So these people are unfarily condemned to Hell?
Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Psalms 19:1-4
(1) To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
(2) Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
(3) There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
(4) Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
Romans 1:18-21
(18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
(19) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
(21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: RDKirk
Upvote 0

SaintCody777

The young, curious Berean
Jan 11, 2018
315
317
29
Miami, Florida
✟53,520.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
I don't think so. If the law is written on their hearts, as Scripture says it is, then everyone contains within their being enough information to live as God wills them to. I think they will be judged according to whether they did the good of which they did know, not the things which they hadn't known of.
I actually have struggled with this as I knew more of what it's like to be a Christian and as I read Scripture more often, at one point I had to swallow it. I used to believe that non-Christians, like atheists, Bhuddists, and Shintos, can be saved as long as they adhered to the same commandments as God gave to Jews and Christians.

I struggled with questions like: If a Bhuddist who has devoted his life to charity and a virtuous life, then why would God send him to hell anyways?
If a Shinto family had good morals and lived kind and virtuous lives, why would God deny them entry to the Kingdom of God? Isn't this exclusive?
What about the good atheists, like my brother's Ukranian friend?
And lo and behold I got this clear answer, everyone has sinned (Romans 3:9-10) at least one time or another. So the only way we can be justified under the law is sincerely placing our trust in the finished work of Christ alone to deem us worthy (John 3:16; Romans 3:31). And I'm not talking about the "altar-call" events where you make a "decision for Christ." In turn, He will give us a will to love the things that God loves and hate what He hates (Romans 12:1).
Luke 19:14,27 seems intolerant and insane, especially in our modern culture. But this parable represents the fate of those who refuse to acknowledge and bow to Jesus' call.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: AppleGold
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,140
20,187
US
✟1,441,679.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Just leave it to God, he is a good God who loves mankind. It seems like a lot of people think God is trying to find something to get you and condemn you but that is not the case.

People do not understand that God is not an impartial and indifferent God, but He is biased toward salvation.

The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3

Willing-heart said:
God is going to judge those who have heard the gospel and rejected it on the basis of that rejection. God is going to judge those who might never have heard the name of Jesus on the basis of God’s natural revelation, both in creation and on the imprinted law of God by virtue of been created in God’s own image.
Are you sure about this?

That's what scripture strongly implies:

1 The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky proclaims the work of His hands.
2 Day after day they pour out speech;
night after night they communicate knowledge.
3 There is no speech; there are no words;
their voice is not heard.
4 Their message has gone out to all the earth,
and their words to the ends of the world.
-- Psalm 19

For God’s wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth, since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them. For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse -- Romans 1

There is an example--Job. If you read the book of Job, you never see either God or Job speak of God's great deeds for the Jews because Job is not a descendant of Abraham. Job does not know God from any of that.

Instead, God speaks of His creation (Job 38): The constellations in the sky, the tides, the great beasts of land and sea. God speaks to Job of creation--uniquely in all of scripture--because that's how Job knows of God. Job has no revelation or relationship with God except through creation, and Job is ignorant of God's promises for any future for man or even himself.

Job worships God in ignorance of His plans and intentions, but only because Job sees God in creation and is thus confident of at least His existence and His essential virtuous nature.

“He is not a mere mortal like me that I might answer him,
that we might confront each other in court.
If only there were someone to mediate between us,
someone to bring us together,
someone to remove God’s rod from me,
so that his terror would frighten me no more.
Then I would speak up without fear of him,
but as it now stands with me, I cannot.
-- Job 9

Job does not know the name of Jesus, but he knows he needs Jesus--and all from creation, not from direct revelation.

Therefore, what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you. The God who made the world and everything in it—He is Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in shrines made by hands. Neither is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives everyone life and breath and all things. From one man He has made every nationality to live over the whole earth and has determined their appointed times and the boundaries of where they live. He did this so they might seek God, and perhaps they might reach out and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. -- Acts 17
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,140
20,187
US
✟1,441,679.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I actually have struggled with this as I knew more of what it's like to be a Christian and as I read Scripture more often, at one point I had to swallow it. I used to believe that non-Christians, like atheists, Bhuddists, and Shintos, can be saved as long as they adhered to the same commandments as God gave to Jews and Christians.

I struggled with questions like: If a Bhuddist who has devoted his life to charoty and a virtous life, then why would God send him to hell anyways?
If a Shinto family had good morals and lived kind and virtous lives, why would God deny them entry to the Kingdom of God? Isn't this exclusive?
What about the good atheists, like my brother's Ukranian friend?
And lo and behold I got this clear answer, everyone has sinned (Romans 3:9-10) at least one time or another. So the only way we can be justified under the law is placing our trust in the finished work of Christ alone (John 3:16; Romans 3:31). In turn, He will give us a will to love the things that God loves and hate what He hates (Romans 12:1).
Luke 19:14,27 seems intolerant and insane, especially in our modern culture. But this parable represents the fate of those who refuse to acknowledge and bow to Jesus' call.

What I think happens--and I've heard this from people in the Far East who have become Christians--is that those people are never fully confident and comfortable in those religions, but are always discomfited with an unshakable feeling that there is something more. If they never hear the gospel, they never find the peace and surety in this life that the gospel could provide.

But God knows who they are.
 
Upvote 0

Loversofjesus_2018

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2018
653
198
33
West coast
✟32,008.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
People do not understand that God is not an impartial and indifferent God, but He is biased toward salvation.

The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3




That's what scripture strongly implies:

1 The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky proclaims the work of His hands.
2 Day after day they pour out speech;
night after night they communicate knowledge.
3 There is no speech; there are no words;
their voice is not heard.
4 Their message has gone out to all the earth,
and their words to the ends of the world.
-- Psalm 19

For God’s wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth, since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them. For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse -- Romans 1

There is an example--Job. If you read the book of Job, you never see either God or Job speak of God's great deeds for the Jews because Job is not a descendant of Abraham. Job does not know God from any of that.

Instead, God speaks of His creation (Job 38): The constellations in the sky, the tides, the great beasts of land and sea. God speaks to Job of creation--uniquely in all of scripture--because that's how Job knows of God. Job has no revelation or relationship with God except through creation, and Job is ignorant of God's promises for any future for man or even himself.

Job worships God in ignorance of His plans and intentions, but only because Job sees God in creation and is thus confident of at least His existence and His essential virtuous nature.

“He is not a mere mortal like me that I might answer him,
that we might confront each other in court.
If only there were someone to mediate between us,
someone to bring us together,
someone to remove God’s rod from me,
so that his terror would frighten me no more.
Then I would speak up without fear of him,
but as it now stands with me, I cannot.
-- Job 9

Job does not know the name of Jesus, but he knows he needs Jesus--and all from creation, not from direct revelation.

Therefore, what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you. The God who made the world and everything in it—He is Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in shrines made by hands. Neither is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives everyone life and breath and all things. From one man He has made every nationality to live over the whole earth and has determined their appointed times and the boundaries of where they live. He did this so they might seek God, and perhaps they might reach out and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. -- Acts 17
Does not live in shrines made by human hands. Neither is he served by human hands. That’s interesting. Thanks for the scriptures!
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,140
20,187
US
✟1,441,679.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God will work it out. I like what CS Lewis wrote

“Then I fell at his feet and thought, Surely this is the hour of death, for the Lion (who is worthy of all honour) will know that I have served Tash all my days and not him. Nevertheless, it is better to see the Lion and die than to be Tisroc of the world and live and not to have seen him. But the Glorious One bent down his golden head and touched my forehead with his tongue and said, Son, thou art welcome. But I said, Alas Lord, I am no son of thine but the servant of Tash. He answered, Child, all the service thou hast done to Tash, I account as service done to me. Then by reasons of my great desire for wisdom and understanding, I overcame my fear and questioned the Glorious One and said, Lord, is it then true, as the Ape said, that thou and Tash are one? The Lion growled so that the earth shook (but his wrath was not against me) and said, It is false. Not because he and I are one, but because we are opposites, I take to me the services which thou hast done to him. For I and he are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him. Therefore if any man swear by Tash and keep his oath for the oath’s sake, it is by me that he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him. And if any man do a cruelty in my name, then, though he says the name Aslan, it is Tash whom he serves and by Tash his deed is accepted. Dost thou understand, Child? I said, Lord, though knowest how much I understand. But I said also (for the truth constrained me), Yet I have been seeking Tash all my days. Beloved, said the Glorious One, unless thy desire had been for me thou wouldst not have sought so long and so truly. For all find what they truly seek.”​
Source

CS Lewis was an "Inclusivist," as was Billy Graham. Inclusivism presumes God had enabled people all around the world to believe in Him, and they seek Him as best they can, and are discomfited by never having heard the gospel in their lives. But God knows who they are.
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,140
20,187
US
✟1,441,679.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What I meant was the atheist who doesn’t believe the Bible is from God. In order to believe the Bible is 100% from God you do have trust people on some level. What if they are like Thomas. Thomas wouldn’t even believe his own brothers.

Unfortunately:

As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you." -- Romans 2

I don't know how many persons who had been enabled by the Father to believe (John 44) are pushed away at least temporarily by the false, distorted gospel presented by the actions of people claiming to be Christian. How can such people be believed?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Light of the East

I'm Just a Singer in an OCA Choir
Supporter
Aug 4, 2013
4,989
2,480
75
Fairfax VA
Visit site
✟555,654.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
We do not know for a certainty what God has in store for them. What we can say is that the Bible teaches that salvation requires one to believe on the Lord.

Which they may well have opportunity to do after they die.
 
Upvote 0

Light of the East

I'm Just a Singer in an OCA Choir
Supporter
Aug 4, 2013
4,989
2,480
75
Fairfax VA
Visit site
✟555,654.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
That is the western idea unfortunately

Well, yes, it is. Western theology, anthropology, and soteriology are all built upon the courtroom mentality of the Roman Empire. Western theology sees God as the angry, offended judge who can't wait to send people into eternal, fiery torment. Somehow, they don't really meditate upon the Parable of the Prodigal and how the father of the Prodigal was actually looking for his son to return so that he could forgive and restore him.
 
Upvote 0

TRVL ONE

Active Member
May 14, 2019
276
42
48
Austin
✟3,685.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
God gives people faith to believe in him. No one that is suppose to go to heaven will go to hell. I believe God knows what year a person with be born and what countries they will be born in. Anyone that goes to heaven will somehow believe and follow Jesus. God will cause them to find him some how. In the book of Revelation and angel will give the gospel to the whole world.
 
Upvote 0

TRVL ONE

Active Member
May 14, 2019
276
42
48
Austin
✟3,685.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
So being part of the elect obviously depends on the country of birth then.
Given that the gospel for the last 250 years has largely been spread by white Anglo Saxon Protestants, we can rest assured that heaven will be populated by WASPS and the rest of the world can go to hell, literally.

God knows the year and country everyone will be born in. He can make connect people with the gospel message or not, knowing who will be saved and who will not be saved

There are millions of believers in Africa and Asia
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

-Sasha-

Handmaid of God
Apr 12, 2019
382
472
Midwest
✟27,318.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
What about the atheist who doesn’t believe what scripture says because they don’t trust humans? Technically they heard but they are to skeptical of people to accept that it’s 100% true. Do they have a chance?
I don't know, but I hope so.
 
Upvote 0

CGL1023

citizen of heaven
Jul 8, 2011
1,340
267
Roswell NM
✟75,781.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Okay, so the bible says, "Jesus will know all and all will come to know Jesus." So what happens to those born in a Buddhist country? Let me take that one step further. A group of people are born in a Buddhist country, never learned about Jesus Christ in school, and noone ever taught them about Jesus, so they never had the opportunity to switch religions until they die. They are isolated tribes in Africa and other parts of the world that live how people live back in the stone age. Odds are, noone will ever be able to reach them and teach them about Jesus, and even if they could, they would have to speak their language to teach them. So these people are unfarily condemned to Hell?

God is just and would not be unfair or underhanded in any dealings He has with people.
 
Upvote 0

Danielwright2311

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Mar 28, 2018
2,219
1,358
50
Sacorro NM
✟110,365.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
1. I have met and seen many who say on there death Jesus comes to them and gives them a choice.

2. God is the master of all, and He decides who He is going to save and who He is not. The ones who He wants to save he sends them to his son Jesus, this is quoited from Jesus him self.

3. There is always another chance, I also have heard and seen many who God sends back for other chances. Is this true? I don't know, But God can do anything He wishes, He is the creator of life and the decider of all things.
 
Upvote 0

AppleGold

Active Member
Apr 18, 2019
34
12
37
Follansbee
✟22,937.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
True. However since it is standard Christian belief that all people are guilty and deserving of condemnation because all people sin. And since it is standard Christian belief that the only way to escape condemnation is through Jesus, you still need to explain to the OP whether it is impossible for someone, that did not have any information that there even was a Jesus, to escape condemnation or whether they ,despite being ignorant of Jesus, yet might be still saved.
This is where I was going with this. Now in Dante's Inferno there is a Purgatory, people who lived good lives but did not know Jesus, a temporary place. Cause many Christians claim that the truth reaches everyone person on Earth, all 7 Billion people while they are still alive. I have a hard time believing that the truth will reach all 7 Billion people on this Earth before they die, now whether or not they accept the truth is a different story.
Also people said he reveals through creation and conscience. I see two things wrong with that. If you never knew about Jesus, you might believe in God through creation, but you might not believe in only one God. You also don't know what/who God is, since you have no Bible. Second, conscience is not something everyone has, some people are scientifically proven to be sociopaths, as scientists did brain scans of all mass murders and other highly skilled criminals and they are all the same. A very small percentage, like 1 to 3 percent is that way. They can learn right from wrong, but they don't have an innate right from wrong. They might not even know why it is wrong, just that they were told it is wrong.
Edit: John: 6:44. This sounds like Predestination to me. Cause if Predestination, is true, then I feel like me trying is useless, cause I had a dream that I went to Hell when I was eight, and that I would go there when I died, like I could never reach God and he could never reach me. It wasn't the Hell people described, it was a dream, not that my actual soul went there, so it was watered down a lot versus people's souls that have been in the place and came back. And because Joseph could tell people what your dreams mean, I wonder if my dream meant exactly that. I was also told in CCD/Church that you choose to be with or turn away from God.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

grasping the after wind

That's grasping after the wind
Jan 18, 2010
19,458
6,354
Clarence Center NY USA
✟237,637.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
God is just and would not be unfair or underhanded in any dealings He has with people.

However, God tells us that His thoughts are not our thoughts. What we might perceive as unjust, God might perceive differently. If I say a thing is unjust and God says it is just, who would you consider to be the more proper authority on the issue?
 
Upvote 0