Alabama's Restrictive Abortion Law: Rape and Incest Discussion

[Servant of Yeshua]

An acceptable alternative is to let the choice up to the rape victim.

That is a worldly answer - if there was no God. I would tell her Romans 12:21 "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." She does not own the child. Children are not property.
Because sadly, if she chooses to kill the child that God Himself by scripture has knit into the womb and says He knew before He even formed the child in the womb, then the rape victim goes from being a victim of a violent crime, to being the murderer of the innocent who stops a beating heart and takes away all hope. You are now subjecting the mother to being separated from God forever because she has now sinned. When you get pro-life literature you see the faces of the many brave women who were raped and keep their baby or tell of their love of giving the baby up for adoption. Life = hope. Death = depression and hopelessness. Honestly you can 100% trust God to bless every rape victim who does not kill God's child. It is a supernatural gift that happens when you trust God. Some will say that you cannot make laws on morality within the confines of there being a God. But all our laws are based on morality. I do not have the choice on whether to wear a seatbelt in my car or not or to drink and drive etc. Because a law exists because a life is in danger.

All laws exist to protect the innocent. That being said, with the DNA from the rapist, that man should then be castrated so he can rape no more and forced to work hard difficult labor the rest of his life to support the child first and then he himself pay for every cost of his life in solitary confinement prison.

 

[SPF]

We have 10s of thousands of poor and abused children already that we do not take care of them the social services and foster parent system are joke.

So an acceptable alternative is to literally kill the unborn? If you think that is an acceptable alternative, would you also support killing the children in the foster system?

I’m going to assume that you think it would be wrong to kill the children in the foster system. And that reveals how you actually feel about the unborn, which is that they are less morally valuable because they aren’t born yet.

How many of you Christians are going to open your homes to those kids.

I do.

An acceptable alternative is to let the choice up to the rape victim.

Right, which means letting them choose to kill the unborn, which means killing an innocent unborn child is an acceptable alternative to you.

 

[Servant of Yeshua]

My adopted 12 yr old son wants to understand how anyone who believes in God, thinks that he should have been killed. Give life and then let God do what God does. Man cannot understand the ways of God. God knit that child in the womb. Fathom what that means when Jeremiah 1:5 says that God KNEW us before we were even born. When a woman is destroying the child that God knit into her womb that He has specifically chosen to give her to care for at least until birth, then she 100% rejecting God Himself. If I were that woman, I certainly would hope that someone would have warned me and tried to get me to wake up to the reality that this murder could change the course of my eternity. Abortion is a forgivable sin, however, you have to honestly come to realize the gravity of that sin and soften your heart and repent. This would include trying to warn others out of love for them. Many will harden their heart and be very angry. Sadly, many will not ever get to ever experience God's blessings because they did not trust Him.

 

[Archivist]

That is a worldly answer - if there was no God. I would tell her Romans 12:21 "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." She does not own the child. Children are not property.
Because sadly, if she chooses to kill the child that God Himself by scripture has knit into the womb and says He knew before He even formed the child in the womb, then the rape victim goes from being a victim of a violent crime, to being the murderer of the innocent who stops a beating heart and takes away all hope. You are now subjecting the mother to being separated from God forever because she has now sinned. When you get pro-life literature you see the faces of the many brave women who were raped and keep their baby or tell of their love of giving the baby up for adoption. Life = hope. Death = depression and hopelessness. Honestly you can 100% trust God to bless every rape victim who does not kill God's child. It is a supernatural gift that happens when you trust God. Some will say that you cannot make laws on morality within the confines of there being a God. But all our laws are based on morality. I do not have the choice on whether to wear a seatbelt in my car or not or to drink and drive etc. Because a law exists because a life is in danger.

So you are now imposing your religious beliefs on others. Fortunately we know that "if we confess our sins, [God] is faithful and just and will forgive our sins" for the sake of Jesus our Savior (1 John 1:9).

All laws exist to protect the innocent. That being said, with the DNA from the rapist, that man should then be castrated so he can rape no more and forced to work hard difficult labor the rest of his life to support the child first and then he himself pay for every cost of his life in solitary confinement prison.

Except that isn't what the law requires. Under the Alabama law the doctor who performs the abortion would actually serve more time than the rapist.

 

[Servant of Yeshua]

So then if not to impose my beliefs, should slavery have been a choice? Honestly, do you think that it should be a choice to treat others like property?

And God will deal with the sin of both rapists and doctors who perform abortions. Both are violent offenders against His children.

 

[Archivist]

Right, which means letting them choose to kill the unborn, which means killing an innocent unborn child is an acceptable alternative to you.

Or she can choose to carry the fetus to term. You seem to conveniently forget that.

Lets look at some things that an 11-year-old girl cannot legally do:

Attend a PG-13 movie without an adult
Vote
Drive a car on public streets
Buy certain video games
Join the armed forces

What can an 11-year-old girl legally be forced to do (at least in Alabama):

Carry the fetus of her attacker to term

Sorry, but there is something that isn't right about about that. Fortunately this law is going to go up on appeal to the Supreme Court and it is going to be overturned.

 

[Archivist]

So then if not to impose my beliefs, should slavery have been a choice? Honestly, do you think that it should be a choice to treat others like property?

What choice did the slaves have? This makes no sense. At least slaves were not inside of someone else's body.

 

[SPF]

Or she can choose to carry the fetus to term. You seem to conveniently forget that.

lol, I get that Archivist. But it also means that an acceptable alternative is to kill the unborn child. I personally don't consider that an acceptable alternative since I believe that the unborn are equally morally valuable and equally created in the image of God as the born.

 

[Archivist]

lol, I get that Archivist. But it also means that an acceptable alternative is to kill the unborn child. I personally don't consider that an acceptable alternative since I believe that the unborn are equally morally valuable and equally created in the image of God as the born.

If you don't think that is an acceptable alternative then by all means don't get an abortion. Remember, thaose of us who are pro-choice would like to see the number of abortions reduced to 0 if possible. We just don't believe that we should be forcing our views on others.

Fortunately this law is going to go up on appeal to the Supreme Court and it is going to be overturned.

 

[Servant of Yeshua]

Or she can choose to carry the fetus to term. You seem to conveniently forget that.

Lets look at some things that an 11-year-old girl cannot legally do:

Attend a PG-13 movie without an adult
Vote
Drive a car on public streets
Buy certain video games
Join the armed forces

What can an 11-year-old girl legally be forced to do (at least in Alabama):

Carry the fetus of her attacker to term

Sorry, but there is something that isn't right about about that. Fortunately this law is going to go up on appeal to the Supreme Court and it is going to be overturned.

The Supreme Court implemented in 1789 allowed slavery as a constitutional right, so I can see why we would give them our confidence in protecting people.

Please tell me if pregnancy was a concern, then why was this 11 yr old girl was not given a morning after pill after her rape? Did it slip everyone's mind? Here is why most 11 yr olds would not get the morning after pill. Their sex trafficking pimp has them getting raped several times every night. Then they go to planned parenthood who does not ask questions or alert police or really have concerns that an adult has committed a crime (sex with a minor) because they have to consider that everyone who comes for an abortion is deciding to be sexually active and parents are NEVER permitted to know that their child is about to go under a medical procedure in which some have died. Watch the true story of Gosnell and see how safe this medical procedure is.
Do not sin in your anger and fear. Rape is horrific and ALL rapist will be punished by God.
But we are not to repay evil with evil. Vengeance is mine saith the Lord God.
Romans 12:21 "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." God will not be mocked and He will not be forever silent and allow the children that He Himself knit into the womb to be killed in mass. As if slavery were not bad enough on our country, abortion will certainly destroy us. For what you have done to the least of these...you have done to Him.

 

[Servant of Yeshua]

What choice did the slaves have? This makes no sense. At least slaves were not inside of someone else's body.

Should the slave owners have been given a choice to keep their property. After all the Supreme Court said that it was a constitutional right to own slaves. It was legal. So why were their rights taken away? If you do not like slavery, just do not own one was the argument. These people were thought of not to be human. But eventually people woke up after the war and realized the sin of treating another life as property. Slavery infringed on another's life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Yes, being a temporary caregiver is unique to being a mother. It requires a character of serving another. A character which is to come from the blessing of God. Without God in all this... nothing makes sense at all. This world is very temporary. But what we do and the decisions we make will have eternal consequences. If we KNOW ahead of time that something is a sin, but we go and do it anyway, then there is premeditation and it is very unlikely there will ever be true repentance to God. Pride usually prevents man from humbling himself or herself to repent to the Lord. But I truly pray for healing and repentance for all those who have chosen abortion.

 

[Archivist]

The Supreme Court implemented in 1789 allowed slavery as a constitutional right, so I can see why we would give them our confidence in protecting people.

Not sure what you point is.

Please tell me if pregnancy was a concern, then why was this 11 yr old girl was not given a morning after pill after her rape? Did it slip everyone's mind? Here is why most 11 yr olds would not get the morning after pill. Their sex trafficking pimp has them getting raped several times every night. Then they go to planned parenthood who does not ask questions or alert police or really have concerns that an adult has committed a crime (sex with a minor) because they have to consider that everyone who comes for an abortion is deciding to be sexually active and parents are NEVER permitted to know that their child is about to go under a medical procedure in which some have died. Watch the true story of Gosnell and see how safe this medical procedure is.

If you are speaking of the 11-year-old girl in Ohio, here is what the police reported:

"Police officers found the victim at the home of her alleged rapist, Juan Leon-Gomez, after her family reported she had "left the residence without her mother's permission." That night, Leon-Gomez was arrested. After the arrest, the police report says the 11-year-old rape victim was counseled on "her delinquent behavior." Last week, Leon-Gomez was indicted for felony rape and obstruction of official business by the Stark County Court and held on a $1 million bond, according to court documents. He's scheduled to be arraigned May 20."

Note that the report does not indicate why she was not given a morning after pill.

Do not sin in your anger and fear. Rape is horrific and ALL rapist will be punished by God.
But we are not to repay evil with evil. Vengeance is mine saith the Lord God.
Romans 12:21 "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." God will not be mocked and He will not be forever silent and allow the children that He Himself knit into the womb to be killed in mass. As if slavery were not bad enough on our country, abortion will certainly destroy us. For what you have done to the least of these...you have done to Him.

This doesn't say anything about forcing one's religious views on others.

 

[Archivist]

Should the slave owners have been given a choice to keep their property. After all the Supreme Court said that it was a constitutional right to own slaves. It was legal. So why were their rights taken away? If you do not like slavery, just do not own one was the argument. These people were thought of not to be human. But eventually people woke up after the war and realized the sin of treating another life as property. Slavery infringed on another's life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Agreed, which is why it was abolished.

Yes, being a temporary caregiver is unique to being a mother. It requires a character of serving another. A character which is to come from the blessing of God. Without God in all this... nothing makes sense at all. This world is very temporary. But what we do and the decisions we make will have eternal consequences. If we KNOW ahead of time that something is a sin, but we go and do it anyway, then there is premeditation and it is very unlikely there will ever be true repentance to God. Pride usually prevents man from humbling himself or herself to repent to the Lord. But I truly pray for healing and repentance for all those who have chosen abortion.

Except you are talking about forcing a rape victim to carry her attacker's fetus to term against her will.

 

[SPF]

Except you are talking about forcing a rape victim to carry her attacker's fetus to term against her will.

Or put another way, you're protecting an innocent victim from being killed. There are two victims in a rape. The mother, and the unwanted child.

Killing one of the victims shouldn't be an option.

 

[Servant of Yeshua]

Not sure what you point is.



If you are speaking of the 11-year-old girl in Ohio, here is what the police reported:

"Police officers found the victim at the home of her alleged rapist, Juan Leon-Gomez, after her family reported she had "left the residence without her mother's permission." That night, Leon-Gomez was arrested. After the arrest, the police report says the 11-year-old rape victim was counseled on "her delinquent behavior." Last week, Leon-Gomez was indicted for felony rape and obstruction of official business by the Stark County Court and held on a $1 million bond, according to court documents. He's scheduled to be arraigned May 20."

Note that the report does not indicate why she was not given a morning after pill.



This doesn't say anything about forcing one's religious views on others.

Keeping the innocent from being killed is not a "religious view". It is a basic human right. It is not religious to believe in the Law of Gravity. One does not experience a different reality if they declare that they do not understand or believe in gravity. It just is. God has written these basic laws regarding life and "do not murder" on every man and woman's heart. Notice that Cain was punished by God even though God had not yet given the 10 commandments to Moses. Cain was still subject to punishment. That is like the slave owner saying that he can own slaves because he will not allow himself to be imposed by other people's religion. ( I did not know of that girl in Ohio, 11 yrs olds in general were mentioned in an another post. That is very sad and disgusting. )

 

[Archivist]

Or put another way, you're protecting an innocent victim from being killed. There are two victims in a rape. The mother, and the unwanted child. Killing one of the victims shouldn't be an option.

And you are enitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine. To me, you cannot force a rape victim to carry the fetus of her attacker to term against her will. To do so punishes her twice. the choice must be hers.

 

[Archivist]

Keeping the innocent from being killed is not a "religious view". It is a basic human right. It is not religious to believe in the Law of Gravity. One does not experience a different reality if they declare that they do not understand or believe in gravity. It just is. God has written these basic laws regarding life and "do not murder" on every man and woman's heart. Notice that Cain was punished by God even though God had not yet given the 10 commandments to Moses. Cain was still subject to punishment.

Except we do not all agree on when life begins. Our Jewish friends (and some Christians) would tell you that it begins with the first breath. At Common Law abortion was permitted until the time of quickening because that was considered to be the moment of ensoulment. Some believe it is the moment of conception. If it isn't a human life it isn't murder.

That is like the slave owner saying that he can own slaves because he will not allow himself to be imposed by other people's religion.

No, there is a difference

( I did not know of that girl in Ohio, 11 yrs olds in general were mentioned in an another post. That is very sad and disgusting. )

I'm not familiar with the instance you are citing. The Ohio case is the only one I have heard about.

 

[Robert6671]

So an acceptable alternative is to literally kill the unborn? If you think that is an acceptable alternative, would you also support killing the children in the foster system?

I’m going to assume that you think it would be wrong to kill the children in the foster system. And that reveals how you actually feel about the unborn, which is that they are less morally valuable because they aren’t born yet.

I do.

Right, which means letting them choose to kill the unborn, which means killing an innocent unborn child is an acceptable alternative to you.

Dude believe it or not I am against abortion. But I have yet to see a decent solution. You might help those in need but with the tens of thousands that slip through the cracks most people do not.

 

[SPF]

And you are enitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine. To me, you cannot force a rape victim to carry the fetus of her attacker to term against her will. To do so punishes her twice. the choice must be hers.

If you woke up and found yourself and another person the victims of some horrible experiment where your bodies were connected together in such a complex way that separating you two immediately would result in your death, but if you were willing to wait 9 months, they would be able to separate you two without death - Do you think the other person should have the right to tell the doctors to disconnect you because he doesn't want to be inconvenienced for 9 months? He's already suffered a terrible crime, he just wants to move on with his life.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Servant, the 11-year old girl in Ohio was specifically mentioned, not 11-year olds in general. Someone on this forum stated she attempted suicide twice because of her forced pregnancy that could not be aborted.

I can add to Archivist's list:

1. Post on message boards, inclulding CF.
2. Get a tattoo (must be at least 18)
3. Get ears pierced without an adult's consent
4. Donate blood (minimum weight is 110)
5. Volunteer without an adult, if at all