Who believes we are in the latter days and that the Rapture will happen in our lifetime?

[ewq1938]

Where are you reading Antichrist in Revelation 13?

I already explained that.

 

[Douggg]

His kingdom is currently not the Earth or any pace upon it. His kingdom is in heaven. When he returns, he brings the kingdom with him and he returns as King, king of kings actually.

Where do you think Zion is? In Ezekiel 37, Jesus will be the King of Israel.

Jesus is the King of kings and will rule the nations with a rod of iron. He will also be the King of Israel.

 

[ewq1938]

Such as? That the messiah will be the King of Israel is biblical - right in Zechariah 9:9.

They rejected him as Messiah and King.

 

[Douggg]

I already explained that.

You are not using the terms in the text.

What you are doing is in similitude to calling the President of the United States, the Senator of Illinois. Same person (Obama) but completely different roles.

 

[Douggg]

They rejected him as Messiah and King.

How does that make what they believe about the messiah being the promised the King of Israel - false or non-biblical ?

 

[ewq1938]

How does that make what they believe about the messiah being the promised the King of Israel - false or non-biblical ?

He came as a king but not king of Israel...he said plainly his actual kingdom he was king of was not from here.

 

[ewq1938]

You are not using the terms in the text.

I already explained this.

 

[Douggg]

He came as a king but not king of Israel...he said plainly his actual kingdom he was king of was not from here.

When he was asked that by Pilate, Jesus was referring to the Kingdom of God. Jesus was the Lord from Heaven. He was already the King of the Kingdom of God.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

1Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Regarding being the Christ though - it is to be promised King of Israel, descended from King David.

Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

 

[Douggg]

I already explained this.

You have not used the terms in the text. Is that what you are admitting?

 

[St. Helens]

MOD HAT ON
Thread was just cleaned.
Please address the post and not the member.
Remarks about the participants in the thread are just a no go.
MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Tone]

As I read and understand this ..something has not happen YET.. when it does.. THEN one can know

"For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way. Then the man of lawlessness will be revealed, but the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by the splendor of his coming. "

So trying to get around 666? For me again it was written 600.60.6.

Looks like a decline from 600 down to 6...which is unproductive...

*Opposite of fruitful...

 

[Tone]

"..it is the Number of MAN!"

it was written 600.60.6.

So how many fold is the number of mankind in decline? A magnitude of what?

*Any mathematicians here?

**(6 x 1)(6 x 10)(6 x 100)?

 

[TribulationSigns]

So how many fold is the number of mankind in decline? A magnitude of what?

*Any mathematicians here?

**(6 x 1)(6 x 10)(6 x 100)?

No God told us to COUNT THAT NUMBER, 666, itself? Is not something we need to add or link to letter, etc. Do you know how?

 

[Tone]

No God told us to COUNT THAT NUMBER, 666, itself? Is not something we need to add or link to letter, etc. Do you know how?

No,I do not know how to count the number of mankind...a census? I believe 6 is the number of a single man.

*Unless it's three parts of man's system?

 

[TribulationSigns]

No,I do not know how to count the number of mankind...a census? I believe 6 is the number of a single man.

*Unless it's three parts of man's system?

We have seen many aspects of the beast that illustrate the significance of his number, but a truly sound exegesis is in the careful "cross checking and cross-referencing" all of our conclusions, by continuing to compare Scripture with Scripture for total Biblical consistency throughout. The question is, how do we Biblically count this number? And are the results in total harmony and agreement with everything else that we've learned? Lest we forget, we were told that those who possess wisdom and understanding, should count or calculate the number of the beast. And the number to count was given as six hundred, sixty, and six, and declared to be, The Number of Man.

But "how" is it the number of man? Without a system we have chaos, and without biblical validation, we have private interpretation. Thus we approach the Scriptures both systematically and reverentially in order to assure that we have God's view, rather than our own idea of what we think is God's view. As noted before, God gives no other number with which to count six hundred, sixty-six with. So we immediately discern that we are simply to count that one number. But how do we count six hundred sixty-six alone? There really is only one way, which uses the Bible as our example and count it the way other numbers are counted in Scripture. We count it as a spiritual number. And since it obviously is not upon all, but only part of the whole are marked deceived of Satan to worship the image, we count it as part of the whole. In other words, we count it as a fraction (part of the whole number). Not surprisingly, it all leads us to the very same conclusion. To answer any objection, in context, counting as a fraction is Biblically justifiable because it is referring to a part of the whole. Or more specifically, the 666 refers to those who are to be cut off from the whole by reason of their being deceived (marked), of the beast. This in relationship to the part that God says will not be marked of the beast (The faithful of God), and whom we are told would be killed because of their faithfulness. So we have two fractions, or two parts. Those who will refuse to worship the beast and so be killed are numbered with God, one part. And those who worship the beast and receive his mark, are numbered with him as his part. So what is the number six hundred, sixty, and six "counted" as a fraction or as part of this whole? It breaks down to two thirds. And no surprise, this correlates perfectly with God's Word because in the Scriptures God uses the division of 1/3 to symbolize the truly Saved who are brought through the fire and refined of God, and 2/3 as those who are to be cut off from God. And these marked of the beast are those designated to forsake God and be deceived (cut off) of the beast. That is how you count the number 666 as 2/3!

An illustration of this spiritual division can be seen in the third part of the shekel that was to be used for the work of the Sanctuary, which illustrates the work of the believer justified in the work of Christ. Or in the prophesy of the coming Messiah, and man is numbered, we see Christ takes only the 'true believers' through the fire to cleanse them (Salvation), and we read that it was numbered 2/3 that were to be cut off. This is six hundred and sixty and six, counted as a fraction of the whole.

Zechariah 13:7-9

• "Awake, O Sword, against My Shepherd, and against the man that is My fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: Smite the Shepherd and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn Mine hand upon the little ones.
• And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, Two Parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third part shall be left therein.
• And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and try them as gold is tried: they shall call on My name, and I will hear them: I will say, it is My people: and they shall say, the Lord is My God."

Two parts therein, or, two parts of the congregation are to be cut off, and one part saved. The Lord our God has assigned the number (fraction) to "count" those whom Christ will bring to Salvation, and the number in His house who will be cut off. A remnant will be saved, and the rest are deceived and cut off. The true believers are numbered as 1/3, and the unsaved who are cut off from God are numbered as 2/3. So here we have GOD'S defining a NUMBER of the whole that represents man being cut off from God. And He (not I) defines it as 2/3 which is friction of 666! And again, this correlates perfectly to what God said about the number of man who will buy and sell, being the number six hundred and sixty and six (2/3). This number being written in the forehead and hand is an illustration that the spiritual condition of their mind, and the works of the hands, are of this carnality or beast that they serve. Just as in the days of old, it is spiritual idolatry.

Jeremiah 44:8

• "In that ye provoke me unto wrath with the works of your hands, burning incense unto other gods in the land of Egypt, whither ye be gone to dwell, that ye might cut yourselves off, and that ye might be a curse and a reproach among all the nations of the earth?"

These marked are those who are deceived of the beast, the false prophets who come in his name, and these are cut off from God by that deception. When we count the number six hundred and sixty and six in the Bible, both spiritually and fractionally, it is illustrating this fall. Those with this number, this name, and this mark, represents the man of lawlessness, whom Satan has deceived, and whom God has designated to be cut off.

Even if we simply look at the very context of Revelation 13 it confirms this. It's not the number of 'a' man as some have surmised, it is the number of man "that is deceived." He is the forsaken who will be buying and selling in the Lord's house at this time. His designated number is 2/3 or 666, and his ruler has the name, Destroyer. For it is written, the judgment must begin at the house of God. Just as it did with the house of Israel. In this, we have our Biblical interpretation of what the number of man, counted 666 represents. It is the "part" of the whole congregation that is 'cut off' from God! That is WHY God commaned the smoke locusts (false prophets and christs with spirit of antichrist) that they only can harm (deceive) those WITHOUT the seal of God so they will be deceive to RECEIVE the mark of the beast as a judgment! That is it!

But what about counting this spiritually? Six hundred, threescore and six [chi xi stigma], were letters of the Greek alphabet, representing numbers respectively 600, 60 and 6. In other words, six hundred and sixty and six as a numeral. It doesn't take much to see this number (600 +60 +6), has the number 6 predominant, which signifies 'work,' and multiplied by 10 and 100, which signifies fullness (see the significance of numbers of Scripture, study). It very well may illustrate the number of man whose work in salvation is after his own spirit, rather than the work of Christ. The ultimate futility of man's work or walk in this world serving Satan can be seen in Israel attempting to get into the Kingdom of God by their own works (by the law). As a result, like these numbered of the beast, they were cut off like branches from the Olive tree. They failed to realize that it is only by the work of the Christ that anyone will see the Kingdom of God. It is by His merit and by being conformed to His image that we are children of God. A likeness or image in the spirit of antichrist will not suffice. Likewise, many in the church are cut off having received the mark of the beast in their minds and hands. The 'works' of their heart is to worship this image or likeness of Satan, and the mark on their hand is to illustrate this.

Revelation 9:20

• "And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:"

The works of their hands is idol worship (a god of their own making). It is to serve a false god rather than Christ, wherein these deceived people are really worshipping devils. Spiritually, these works are in the number of man, and man shall be judged every one according to that work. According to the law.
And so all roads though they take different paths, lead us to the exact same conclusion. The number represents the lot of those who do not have Christ as their Sabbath of rest, and whose works follow against the law. It signifies man all of one mind, one family, with the name of their father, Satan predominant in their thoughts and deeds. As God indeed declared in the verse itself, "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of Man." It's the number of mankind who is deceived by the spirit of anti-Christ whose hand and mind is to do the works of the devil, and to worship the 'likeness' of the beast.

2nd Thessalonians 2:9-12

• "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
• And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
• And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
• That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

Once again, man in the works of the devil, and also this is an illustration that it is God who is sending these unfaithful this delusion, because they would not believe the truth preached in love. These antichrists who come after the 'workings' of Satan (with all lying signs and wonders to deceive) are those who cause them to receive this mark and be cut off from God. The phrase 'mark of the beast' refers to their being brought into servitude to the spirit of antichrist and deceived (Revelation 14:9, 20:4). They fall because of the judgement of God for not receiving truth. This Apostasy, this cutting off, this marking of the people by Satan, is "ultimately" judgment from God for their abominations. And that is what this verse in Thessalonians declares. It is because the spirit of man is in opposition to the Spirit of God, that he has made The Lord's house into a den of thieves, wicked buyers and sellers who rob God in their lawlessness. So when we ask the question, what is the mark of the beast? We can answer assuredly that it is the number of his name, a number signifying carnality, a spiritual mark of ownership.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

You guys need to be here now. No speculating the future.

 

[keras]

You guys need to be here now. No speculating the future.

So you think we should just ignore the over a quarter of the Bible that is unfulfilled prophecy?
Paul said: We Christians should not be unaware of God's plans for our future.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

So you think we should just ignore the over a quarter of the Bible that is unfulfilled prophecy?
Paul said: We Christians should not be unaware of God's plans for our future.

We should not obsess over speculations and theories about what we think prophesy says.

 

[keras]

We should not obsess over speculations and theories about what we think prophesy says.

Quite right.
We must simply read what the prophets have so plainly told us will happen next;
Isaiah 61:2b ...the Day of vengeance of our God...

You seem as though you would prefer to just ignore it all, but that is a sin, as God has gone to a fair amount of trouble to give the information to His prophets, that 2 Peter 1:19 says will illuminate our minds.

 

[Copperhead]

They rejected him as Messiah and King.

Who rejected Him? Sure wasn't the disciples and all the other Israelites that followed Yeshua. Sure wasn't Paul... probably the most educated Pharisee of his day, a rabbi of rabbis, a Hebrew of Hebrews. Even some of the Sanhedrin followed Yeshua. Ever read of Joseph of Arimathea? How about Nicodemus? How about the 3000 Israelites who came to trust in Yeshua at Shavuot following His ascension? How about the 5000 Israelites who came to faith shortly after that? And that was all before the first recorded Gentile came to faith in Acts 10.

It was the national leadership of Israel that rejected Yeshua. Not Israel. And Yeshua will not return again until the national leadership of Israel turns to Him and calls for His return. Yeshua made that very clear in both OT and NT.