Need the Christian perspective on hypocracy.

[Robert65]

I have a Christian friend who has been a Christian for decades who said that he is one of the most hypocritical people that I can know. This struck me as an odd thing to say for the following reasons. If a function of religion is to elevate one above their baser nature, then it stands to reason that one who makes a concerted effort to do so should not be able to claim after decades in the Church to be one of the most hypocritical people that I can know.

I understand that we are all hypocrites but from my personal experience such negative aspects of our baser nature can be mitigated and in some cases overcome, although through no small effort. I argue that the longer one is in a religion the less hypocritical they should become and if not then they are not diligently making a concerted effort to mitigate or overcome the more negative aspects of their baser nature, aka not walking the talk.

For those who will say "we are all sinners", I agree but see that argument as a deflection. Saying that we are all sinners does nothing to mitigate or negate the sin. Christianity is judged by the actions of its practitioners and when a practitioner says that they are one of the most hypocritical people that I can know then from my POV Christianity fails to curb baser nature or the practitioner is not diligent in adhering to the teachings of Christ.

Thoughts?

 

[“Paisios”]

It is true that as we progress in faith, we should become more Christlike and, among other things, less hypocritical.

But, we do not all start at the same place, nor are we all completely aware of our sin. It might be that your friend can truthfully say he is the most hypocritical person he knows, and that he is a Christian; he may have nonetheless made great progress in his walk and is less hypocritical than he was, or at the very least, more aware of it.

I find comparing myself to others (except Christ) is of little value. Comparing myself to Christ humbles me. Comparing my present self to my earlier self is of some use to direct my prayers and my efforts.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="Robert65, post: 73933506, member: 413904"]I have a Christian friend who has been a Christian for decades who said that he is one of the most hypocritical people that I can know. This struck me as an odd thing to say for the following reasons. If a function of religion is to elevate one above their baser nature, then it stands to reason that one who makes a concerted effort to do so should not be able to claim after decades in the Church to be one of the most hypocritical people that I can know.

I understand that we are all hypocrites but from my personal experience such negative aspects of our baser nature can be mitigated and in some cases overcome, although through no small effort. I argue that the longer one is in a religion the less hypocritical they should become and if not then they are not diligently making a concerted effort to mitigate or overcome the more negative aspects of their baser nature, aka not walking the talk.

For those who will say "we are all sinners", I agree but see that argument as a deflection. Saying that we are all sinners does nothing to mitigate or negate the sin. Christianity is judged by the actions of its practitioners and when a practitioner says that they are one of the most hypocritical people that I can know then from my POV Christianity fails to curb baser nature or the practitioner is not diligent in adhering to the teachings of Christ.

Thoughts?[/QUOTE
================================

Where or who teaches the "function of religion" ?

Perhaps your "friend" is being "honest" concerning hypocrisy, and doesn't know what if anything they can or ought to do about that, nor how ?

Perhaps this happens A LOT, everywhere.

No, we are not all hypocrites as you post "I understand that we are ALL..."

Who told you that , and why ?

 

[Chris V++]

Christianity is judged by the actions of its practitioners and when a practitioner says that they are one of the most hypocritical people that I can know then from my POV Christianity fails to curb baser nature or the practitioner is not diligent in adhering to the teachings of Christ.

I understand hypocrisy as condemning someone for something that you yourself are doing, whether publicly or privately. So if your friend is going around looking down on others and treating people like sinners especially for engaging in the same types of activities he himself is engaging in, then he might be guilty of hypocrisy, but if he is just slipping up and sinning and feeling bad about it he might be judging himself too harshly. Church is full of sinners, or so it has been said.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Church is full of sinners, or so it has been said.

Is that the standard to go by ? (if it is even truthful?)

What does the WORD OF YAHUWEH(GOD) say about : "continually full of RIGHTEOUSNESS, PEACE AND JOY " ? (every day)
and
every day, walking continually IN UNION WITH THE SON, and WITH THE FATHER ? (Echad)
(the Ekklesia in the first century and following)

See especially 1st John and 1st Peter for , Yahuweh Willing, enlightenment concerning this.

 

[Chris V++]

Is that the standard to go by ? (if it is even truthful?)

Great point. But maybe it is a good standard only in context of judging others, lest we be judged.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Great point. But maybe it is a good standard only in context of judging others, lest we be judged.

When and Where
Does Yahuweh(GOD) SAY TO JUDGE ? (even to do so to avoid judgment on judgment day !!! )

 

[Halbhh]

I have a Christian friend who has been a Christian for decades who said that he is one of the most hypocritical people that I can know. This struck me as an odd thing to say for the following reasons. If a function of religion is to elevate one above their baser nature, then it stands to reason that one who makes a concerted effort to do so should not be able to claim after decades in the Church to be one of the most hypocritical people that I can know.

I understand that we are all hypocrites but from my personal experience such negative aspects of our baser nature can be mitigated and in some cases overcome, although through no small effort. I argue that the longer one is in a religion the less hypocritical they should become and if not then they are not diligently making a concerted effort to mitigate or overcome the more negative aspects of their baser nature, aka not walking the talk.

For those who will say "we are all sinners", I agree but see that argument as a deflection. Saying that we are all sinners does nothing to mitigate or negate the sin. Christianity is judged by the actions of its practitioners and when a practitioner says that they are one of the most hypocritical people that I can know then from my POV Christianity fails to curb baser nature or the practitioner is not diligent in adhering to the teachings of Christ.

Thoughts?

If picking a Christian at random, you could end up with someone like Mother Teresa or Paul the Evangelist also. Here's a better way than just luck of the draw of 1 person at random though -- try out a few churches, and see how they are, more people. Try a United Church of Christ or even ELCA Lutheran. Attend, and be friendly, and see what happens. Find out how typical Christians act in a few churches. They may have volunteer opportunities, and you can join in.

 

[Chris V++]

When and Where
Does Yahuweh(GOD) SAY TO JUDGE ? (even to do so to avoid judgment on judgment day !!! )

Sorry I meant to say 'But maybe it is a good standard only in context of NOT judging others, lest we be judged.' like it says it Matt 7 :1.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If picking a Christian at random, you could end up with someone like Mother Teresa or Paul the Evangelist also. Here's a better way than just luck of the draw of 1 person at random though -- try out a few churches, and see how they are, more people. Try a United Church of Christ or even ELCA Lutheran. Attend, and be friendly, and see what happens. Find out how typical Christians act in a few churches. They may have volunteer opportunities, and you can join in.

Sorry, but did you recently do an internet search to verify, proof , or prove wrong,
some of your post ? It is devastating and embarrassing to find out the truth is not what has been believed for decades, but it is necessary to find out the truth even if it is embarrassing or devastating today, in order not to be embarrased on judgment day, as written in Scripture. Also sorry, I cannot disclose more in detail about this. (other than do not trust picking anything as if at random)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Are sorry I meant to say 'But maybe it is a good standard only in context of NOT judging others, lest we be judged.' like it says it Matt 7 :1.

Do not judge as in condemning judgment,
but DO JUDGE (in the assembly, within the Ekklesia) DAILY as written in Scripture.

Otherwise , without good judgment, nothing and no one is known to be true or false.

It is appointed the elders/ leaders/ in the assembly to judge as God clearly says.

I think there are three or four different meanings for the english word "judge",
and this distinction of what judgment is required and what is not
is often not realized nor seen in english.

 

[Chris V++]

I think there are three or four different meanings for the english word "judge",
and this distinction of what judgment is required and what is not
is often not realized nor seen in english.

Yeah you're right. I ve heard the words 'discernment' or' assessment' used in place of judgement in that regard. I can assess my neighbor for example, or discern my neighbors actions as sinful, I just can't make condemnation judgments about their souls. Is that what you mean?

 

[Halbhh]

Sorry, but did you recently do an internet search to verify, proof , or prove wrong,
some of your post ? It is devastating and embarrassing to find out the truth is not what has been believed for decades, but it is necessary to find out the truth even if it is embarrassing or devastating today, in order not to be embarrased on judgment day, as written in Scripture. Also sorry, I cannot disclose more in detail about this. (other than do not trust picking anything as if at random)

Too enigmatic. You can PM me if you like.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yeah you're right. I ve heard the words 'discernment' or' assessment' used in place of judgement in that regard. I can assess my neighbor for example, or discern my neighbors actions as sinful, I just can't make condemnation judgments about their souls. Is that what you mean?

Yes.

 

[Robert65]

Where or who teaches the "function of religion" ?

Two sources. 1) Religious leaders. 2) Individual interpretation.

"No, we are not all hypocrites as you post" - yeshuaslavejeff

An easy claim to make, but impossible to prove. You are the only person that I have ever heard make the claim.

"Who told you that , and why ?" - yeshuaslavejeff

Observation and the study of sociology and psychology.

 

[Robert65]

It is true that as we progress in faith, we should become more Christlike and, among other things, less hypocritical.

But, we do not all start at the same place, nor are we all completely aware of our sin. It might be that your friend can truthfully say he is the most hypocritical person he knows, and that he is a Christian; he may have nonetheless made great progress in his walk and is less hypocritical than he was, or at the very least, more aware of it.

I find comparing myself to others (except Christ) is of little value. Comparing myself to Christ humbles me. Comparing my present self to my earlier self is of some use to direct my prayers and my efforts.

20 + years should be more than enough time to largely mitigate an aspect of ones baser nature.

 

[Robert65]

My friend admitted that he was being hyperbolic. Yet this does nothing to change the question as I see many examples of hypocrisy and even outright hate from long time Christians. I know a small number of Christians who decades in are grand examples of faith in action, yet I fear that they are the exception rather than the rule. I know a Christian who has been a Christian for 50+ years and says some of the most disgusting hate filled rants about liberals. I have seen many more like him on a political forum I am a member of. Decades into a religion and you should not be spouting hate as that is to not walk the talk.

 

[“Paisios”]

20 + years should be more than enough time to largely mitigate an aspect of ones baser nature.

I wish that was the case for me...I’ve improved, but every day I realize how fallen I am and lament the fact, asking for forgiveness.

 

[Robert65]

If picking a Christian at random, you could end up with someone like Mother Teresa or Paul the Evangelist also. Here's a better way than just luck of the draw of 1 person at random though -- try out a few churches, and see how they are, more people. Try a United Church of Christ or even ELCA Lutheran. Attend, and be friendly, and see what happens. Find out how typical Christians act in a few churches. They may have volunteer opportunities, and you can join in.

My friend is but an example of what I see many cases of in Christianity. For example all the Christian conservative Trump supporters that chant "Lock her up" yet say "Hey, do not prejudge Kavanaugh or Trump!" It is easy for me to see Christian hypocrisy as I am not a Christian. Much harder for me to see my own hypocrisy though. Human nature. It is always easier to see the flaws in others than in self. This is why I value judgment and criticism as it is a great way to reveal my own flaws. But Christians tend to say "Only God can judge", which is factually incorrect. We all judge.

 

[Chris V++]

Christians, like anyone else, can grow and mature. We can also backslide and get caught up in sin or puffed up with spiritual pride. It's easy to forget Trump switched party affiliation as late as 2012. Remember he threatened to run as independent if he didn't win the nomination. Christian support of Trump is (one can hope) just support of the party values.