NYT Gets Trump Tax Info 1985-1994

Justified112

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It is like the tax return issue. Every President in the last 40 years has submitted theirs. Trump promised to release his tax returns after they were elected. Not only has Trump not done so, but he's fighting tooth and nail to prevent their disclosure to Congress.

Trump has defied all of the norms of the office of Presidency, and he and his supporters act shocked each time he's called out on it.
Trump has defied the norms and Trump has done in less than 4 years what everyone else couldn't do in 30 years. He has lowered unemployment to record levels, he has brought back jobs that no one thought would come back. He has lowered taxes, something that hasn't happened decades. Those who were going by the norms were willing to run this country off a cliff.

Trump is not under an legal, constitutional obligation to show his tax returns. And given how his critics do nothing but smear him, I can see why he would not feel compelled to release them only to expose them to the same ongoing lies and smears that people like you constantly engage in. I would not reveal my tax returns either if I knew they would be lied about, misreported, misrepresented.
 
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iluvatar5150

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That is not true. Obama's failed economy never got above 2% GDP. Trump was laughed to scorn when he said that under his plan it would get up to 4%. CNN, MSNBC and everyone else in the alphapet soup of the liberal media couldn't contain their derision. But it has happened.

And here we have a good example of why I don't trust people to get these things right. Nearly everything you said was incorrect:


Obama's failed economy never got above 2% GDP.

Wrong. Annual GDP growth rates under Obama were over 2% in 2010, 2012, 2014, and 2015.

Apps Test | U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)


Trump was laughed to scorn when he said that under his plan it would get up to 4%. CNN, MSNBC and everyone else in the alphapet soup of the liberal media couldn't contain their derision.

It wasn't just "the liberal media". It was mainstream economists everywhere.

But it has happened.

No, it hasn't. Only in a single quarter (Q2 2018) did it get that high. And if a single quarter is our measuring stick, well, Obama beat that in three quarters (Q4 2009, Q2-3 2014). He also had several quarters up over 3%.

Apps Test | U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)

Obama said that Trump's pledge to bring back all of these manufacturing jobs was impossible. The media said would not happen. Obama said Trump needed a magic wand to make it happen. But it happened

Interesting. See, when I look at the data, it looks like we've had a pretty steady growth in manufacturing employment since about 2010.

All Employees: Manufacturing | FRED | St. Louis Fed

The growth rate has been a little higher for the last couple quarters than it was at times during Obama's tenure, but not a ton higher.

All Employees: Manufacturing | FRED | St. Louis Fed




and suddenly Obama and Co. want to take credit for a booming economy THEY said would never happen. They want credit for what they said was impossible. THEY said that high unemployment and a sluggish 2% was the "new normal" and we should just get used to that. They had no economic boom to point to.

They had 7 years of positive GDP growth coming out of the worst recession in a lifetime. That's a pretty good record.

Regarding the growth projections, everybody knows you can juice GDP numbers with economic stimulus (such as a big tax cut or a big spending package). Most people, however, thought that approach was a bad idea at this late stage since the economy was already growing and it would run up huge deficits (there's also the fact that Republicans wouldn't have passed anything of Obama's that looked like a huge deficit buster).

So, when Trump pushed through a big tax cut, the result was exactly what all the mainstream economists predicted: improved GDP growth and huge deficits.

You'll note that that's rather different than what the Trump crowd was predicting, which was even bigger GDP growth (upwards of 6% in some of his predictions) and no deficits (i.e. that they'd pay for themselves). Everybody laughed at him for those claims - and rightfully so. His predictions were silly and the data now proves it.

Trump unleashed the private sector and suddenly everything that Obama and his little cronies mockingly said could not happen, did. They deserve NO credit.

The data doesn't support your conclusion.
 
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mark kennedy

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It is still a far, far better economy than we had for eight years under Obama.
It's the same economy we had under Obama, minus the tax cuts for the richest 1%.
 
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Speedwell

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No, he has done a lot of things wrong. I never said that. What I am defending him against is the unfair, irrational double standards that people like you erect to smear him. Everyone knows what he means by "Russia hoax." The problem is that you can't admit that fact.

In the eyes of people like you, Trump is always wrong, no matter what. And if he is right, he is wrong for being right. It's that kind of irrational mindset that characterizes most of the critics on this board, that I am addressing.

The criticisms leveled against Trump are often over the top and unevenly applied. It's like the tax return issue. Trump is doing what every other billionaire does, but when Trump does it, it is wrong.
Poor Donald. It's a good thing he has you to stick up for him. How is it that he inspires such loyalty?
 
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whatbogsends

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Yeah, that is a lie. The Obama economy never got above 2% GDP. And he and his cronies said it would never get that high under Trump and mocked him for it. But it happened.

They said he would not get elected, had no chance. He won. They said that he could not bring jobs back. He did. They said that we would never see 4% GDP. We did. They said he colluded with Russia. Proven now that he didn't. They said he would get us into war with North Korea. He didn't. The Trump critics in the media and political establishment keep getting it wrong. People like you keep putting up false accusations. You're always wrong and always will be.

The claims you're making in this post are absolute falsehoods. I posted links in post #161.
 
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Justified112

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whatbogsends

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And here we have a good example of why I don't trust people to get these things right. Nearly everything you said was incorrect:

Wrong. Annual GDP growth rates under Obama were over 2% in 2010, 2012, 2014, and 2015.

Apps Test | U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)

It wasn't just "the liberal media". It was mainstream economists everywhere.

No, it hasn't. Only in a single quarter (Q2 2018) did it get that high. And if a single quarter is our measuring stick, well, Obama beat that in three quarters (Q4 2009, Q2-3 2014). He also had several quarters up over 3%.

Apps Test | U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)

Interesting. See, when I look at the data, it looks like we've had a pretty steady growth in manufacturing employment since about 2010.

All Employees: Manufacturing | FRED | St. Louis Fed

The growth rate has been a little higher for the last couple quarters than it was at times during Obama's tenure, but not a ton higher.

All Employees: Manufacturing | FRED | St. Louis Fed

They had 7 years of positive GDP growth coming out of the worst recession in a lifetime. That's a pretty good record.

Regarding the growth projections, everybody knows you can juice GDP numbers with economic stimulus (such as a big tax cut or a big spending package). Most people, however, thought that approach was a bad idea at this late stage since the economy was already growing and it would run up huge deficits (there's also the fact that Republicans wouldn't have passed anything of Obama's that looked like a huge deficit buster).

So, when Trump pushed through a big tax cut, the result was exactly what all the mainstream economists predicted: improved GDP growth and huge deficits.

You'll note that that's rather different than what the Trump crowd was predicting, which was even bigger GDP growth (upwards of 6% in some of his predictions) and no deficits (i.e. that they'd pay for themselves). Everybody laughed at him for those claims - and rightfully so. His predictions were silly and the data now proves it.

The data doesn't support your conclusion.

I applaud your effort, but providing actual facts isn't going to help.

Obviously the facts are partisan hacks that hate Trump. Trump has pushed is "4% GDP" narrative and his supporters believe him unquestioningly, despite the in your face data that shows the narrative to be untrue. More facts are not going to convince them.
 
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whatbogsends

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iluvatar5150

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It didn't happen under Obama. He never got above 2%.

As for evidence: https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-3percent-20170519-story.htm

First, you made a typo in your link. It should read ".html", not ".htm":

If Trump thinks he can get more than 3% economic growth, he's dreaming

Second, did you even read the article? It says, "Over the past decade, the economy has grown at an average of about 2% a year." This graphic from that article shows (just like I said) 4 Obama years of GDP growth over 2%.

S6XNIF3WIVAFBGNXOQIXKCEUGQ.jpg
 
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Justified112

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iluvatar5150

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The link works for me just fine.

Your browser probably has it cached. It's broken for everybody else.



Not enough over 2% to matter

GDP growth rates were 2.5% in 2014 and 2.9% in 2015. That's significantly higher than 2% and more than enough to matter

Obummer never got to 4%.
and he never got to 4% Thanks for the help.

I've already provided you the data showing that he did. That's what those Bureau of Economic Analysis links are.

Your claims are false. If you continue repeating those false claims beyond this, you'll be guilty of lying.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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Not enough over 2% to matter and he never got to 4% Thanks for the help.

Trump never reached 4% GDP growth on an annual basis either

2018—A Banner Year for the U.S. Economy

However, both Trump and Obama have broken 4% GDP on a quarterly basis as has been pointed out to you.

Both have fallen short in annual numbers but have succeeded in quarterly numbers.
 
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whatbogsends

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Except that we have hit 4%. No one else, not Bush, not Obummer has ever gotten to that number. The narrative isn't untrue at all.

Your claims contradict the facts which have been linked multiple times using multiple sources.
 
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Speedwell

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Unlike every other president, Trump has actually been keeping his campaign promises and he has done such good things for this country, more than Bush or Obummer did.
On the other hand, he panders outrageously to right-wing religious extremists, appointing many judges favorable to their un-American political agenda.
 
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Shiloh Raven

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Unlike every other president, Trump has actually been keeping his campaign promises and he has done such good things for this country,

What about his campaign promises to protect and preserve the rights of LGBT American citizens?

He wrote in a June 14, 2016, tweet: "Thank you to the LGBT community! I will fight for you while Hillary brings in more people that will threaten your freedoms and beliefs."

(1) The following is what he said about LGBT rights before he campaigned for the presidency.

Donald Trump's past statements about LGBT rights

Donald Trump Says Transgender People Should Use the Bathroom They Want

(2) The following is his presidential campaign promises to protect the rights of LGBT Americans.

Trump Vows to Protect LGBTQ Citizens

Making GOP history, Trump vows to protect LGBT community

Donald Trump’s “support” of LGBT communities in one image

Trump vows to keep Obama-era protection for LGBT federal workers

(3) The following is his presidential record breaking his campaign promises to protect LGBT rights.

Donald Trump Is the Most Anti-LGBT President in History

Sean Spicer's Book Reveals: Trump's LGBTQ+ Support Was a Total Lie

How Trump Made 2017 a Horrific Year for LGBT Rights—and Worse Is to Come

Trump promised to be LGBTQ-friendly. His first year in office proved it was a giant con.

(4) The following are more articles on his anti-LGBT policies after promising to protect LGBT rights.

Trump's Quiet War Against LGBT Americans

T[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] Attacked LGBT Rights in 2018, and He’s Far From Done

First 100 Days: How President Trump Has Impacted LGBTQ Rights

Trump administration rolls back protections for transgender students

So much for his presidential campaign promise to be the President of all Americans. It's a shame he's conveniently forsaken his long held liberal views on LGBT rights to appease his conservative base and he's repeatedly broken his campaign promises to protect the rights of LGBT American citizens.


300880_31d53969ad8857d2849830205193e0e5.jpg
 
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iluvatar5150

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What about his campaign promises to protect and preserve the rights of LGBT American citizens?

I'm still waiting on that infrastructure plan...

...and his Obamacare replacement...

...and the swamp to be drained....
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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I'm still waiting on that infrastructure plan...

...and his Obamacare replacement...

...and the swamp to be drained....

...and his tax returns he promised to release...

...and peace in the Middle East...

...and the repeal of the Johnson Amendment...
 
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Shiloh Raven

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On the other hand, he panders outrageously to right-wing religious extremists, appointing many judges favorable to their un-American political agenda.

I think it is truly a shame that a man like him now represents the Religious Right and the rest of the Republican Party. I don't think the Republican Party can ever again honestly claim to be the political party of Christian morality and traditional family values. The devout Religious Right and the rest of the Republican Party spent the entire eight years of Bill Clinton's administration outraged and condemning him for being an adulterer and a womanizer. And here these conservatives are now supporting a man who could rival Bill Clinton in adulterous philandering and in other immoral behavior. Isn't it ironic that Bill Clinton's continuous sexual deviant behavior toward women was never once called "locker room banter" or "macho talk" by any of the conservatives who now support and defend Donald Trump?

Sadly, this sudden change of heart concerning the moral character of the President isn't limited to the layman within the Republican Party. It also affected the most prominent Evangelical leaders as well.

For example...

James Dobson:

James Dobson condemning Bill Clinton in 1998: "Character does matter. You can't run a family, let alone a country without it. How foolish to believe that a person who lacks honesty and moral integrity is qualified to lead a nation and the world."

Source: What James Dobson Said in 1998 About Moral Character and the Presidency

James Dobson endorsing Trump in 2016: "I’m not under any illusions that he is an outstanding moral example. It’s a cliché but true: We are electing a commander-in-chief, not a theologian-in-chief.”

Source: I’m an evangelical. The religious right leaders who support Trump don’t speak for me.

Franklin Graham:

Franklin Graham condemning Bill Clinton in 1998: "Bill Clinton's months-long extramarital sexual behavior in the Oval Office now concerns him and the rest of the world, not just his immediate family. If he will lie to or mislead his wife and daughter, those with whom he is most intimate, what will prevent him from doing the same to the American public?"

Source: What Franklin Graham Said About the “Private Sins” of Bill Clinton in 1998

Franklin Graham defending Donald Trump in 2018: “I think some of these things — that’s for him and his wife to deal with. I think when the country went after President Clinton, the Republicans, that was a great mistake that should never have happened. And I think the same with Stormy Daniels and so forth is nobody’s business. And we’ve got other business at hand that we need to deal with.”

Source: Evangelist Franklin Graham Says Donald Trump's Alleged Affair Is 'Nobody's Business'

Pat Robertson:


Pat Robertson Calls for Clinton's Impeachment

Standing by Donald Trump, Pat Robertson calls lewd video ‘macho talk’

Jerry Farwell, Jr.

Watch: Jerry Falwell Jr. goes after Clinton at Republican National Convention

Evangelical Jerry Falwell Jr. defends Trump: Jesus “never told Caesar how to run Rome”
 
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GoldenBoy89

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That is false. He was the darling of the media, the political establishment and the entertainment industry. They invited him to their parties and they always wanted to be at his parties. The very politicians that are smearing him today, were for years, knocking at Trump's door for campaign donations. They had nothing but praise for Trump before he ran for president.
That's because he decided to disparage the entire nation of Mexico and their people when he ran for president. I had no problem with him either before then and I wont again once he is out of office.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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No, he didn't. The "Russia Hoax" he was speaking about had to do with the hoax that he colluded with Russia to steal the election. He never said that Russia didn't try to interfere with our elections. He was not calling their interference a hoax. He called the Russia collusion claims a hoax.
He literally says that he spoke with Putin about it and that Putin assured him it wasn't them and then he said the now infamous, "I don't see why it would be them" line which he then had to walk back immediately after arriving from the Helsinki conference.

“My people came to me, [Director of National Intelligence] Dan Coats came to me and some others saying they think it's Russia. I have President Putin, he just said it’s not Russia,” Trump said. “I will say this, I don’t see any reason why it would be.”

The President of the United States took the word of the Russian president over his own intelligence agencies' counsel.
 
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