Trump Pardons Army Lt Who Murdered Iraqi Detainee & Burned Body

[iluvatar5150]

Obviously, given the number of people speaking on behalf of the soldier, there were other details. Is there somewhere that details both sides, not just
takes the shot at Trump?

This lays out details of the incident:
The story of Michael Behenna and Mad Dog 5: “Self-defense” in war - SCOTUSblog

There were arguably some procedural issues with his trial:
http://www.oag.ok.gov/Websites/oag/images/behenna.prestrump.agbarr.ltr.pdf

...if the argument were merely about granting a new trial, I would be fine with that. But to answer your question, it appears that some folks want to extend carte blanch to anybody in uniform and are perfectly okay with our guys acting like monsters, so long as they're "our guys."

 

[Pommer]

You know what's worse? Terrorist bomb makers and ISIS.

If we are not better than terrorists, why champion ourselves as the good guys?

 

[Goonie]

This lays out details of the incident:
The story of Michael Behenna and Mad Dog 5: “Self-defense” in war - SCOTUSblog

There were arguably some procedural issues with his trial:
http://www.oag.ok.gov/Websites/oag/images/behenna.prestrump.agbarr.ltr.pdf

...if the argument were merely about granting a new trial, I would be fine with that. But to answer your question, it appears that some folks want to extend carte blanch to anybody in uniform and are perfectly okay with our guys acting like monsters, so long as they're "our guys."

Interesting article. Though even if the defendants account is correct, in regard to the suspect attempting to reach his gun(as supported by the medical report not released to the defence) one could argue that his blatant disobeying of orders, his pointing his gun and threatening to kill the suspect means that he cannot claim self defence when his victim tries to defend himself.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Interesting article. Though even if the defendants account is correct, in regard to the suspect attempting to reach his gun(as supported by the medical report not released to the defence) one could argue that his blatant disobeying of orders, his pointing his gun and threatening to kill the suspect means that he cannot claim self defence when his victim tries to defend himself.

The way I read it, that was more-or-less the reasoning of the appeals court in denying his appeal.

 

[Goonie]

The way I read it, that was more-or-less the reasoning of the appeals court in denying his appeal.

Indeed. Once he disobeyed orders he in effect abducted the suspect, and claiming self defence goes out of the window.

 

[TLK Valentine]

...if the argument were merely about granting a new trial, I would be fine with that. But to answer your question, it appears that some folks want to extend carte blanch to anybody in uniform and are perfectly okay with our guys acting like monsters, so long as they're "our guys."

What else is new? One can do no wrong when they do the Will of the Donald...

 

[TLK Valentine]

If we are not better than terrorists, why champion ourselves as the good guys?

Because if we get caught saying otherwise, some jackbooted thug might shoot us and set our corpse on fire.

 

[ViaCrucis]

What makes you so sure it's just mans justice?

"For I am not ashamed of the Gospel for it is the power of God to save all who believe, the Jew first and also the Gentiles. For by it the justice of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it is written, 'The just shall live by faith.'" - Romans 1:16-17

"Meanwhile in that same year, 1519, I had begun interpreting the Psalms once again. I felt confident that I was now more experienced, since I had dealt in university courses with St. Paul's Letters to the Romans, to the Galatians, and the Letter to the Hebrews. I had conceived a burning desire to understand what Paul meant in his Letter to the Romans, but thus far there had stood in my way, not the cold blood around my heart, but that one word which is in chapter one: 'The justice of God is revealed in it.' I hated that word, 'justice of God,' which, by the use and custom of all my teachers, I had been taught to understand philosophically as referring to formal or active justice, as they call it, i.e., that justice by which God is just and by which he punishes sinners and the unjust.

But I, blameless monk that I was, felt that before God I was a sinner with an extremely troubled conscience. I couldn't be sure that God was appeased by my satisfaction. I did not love, no, rather I hated the just God who punishes sinners. In silence, if I did not blaspheme, then certainly I grumbled vehemently and got angry at God. I said, 'Isn't it enough that we miserable sinners, lost for all eternity because of original sin, are oppressed by every kind of calamity through the Ten Commandments? Why does God heap sorrow upon sorrow through the Gospel and through the Gospel threaten us with his justice and his wrath?' This was how I was raging with wild and disturbed conscience. I constantly badgered St. Paul about that spot in Romans 1 and anxiously wanted to know what he meant.

I meditated night and day on those words until at last, by the mercy of God, I paid attention to their context: 'The justice of God is revealed in it, as it is written: "The just person lives by faith."' I began to understand in this verse the justice of God is that by which the just person lives by a gift of God, that is by faith. I began to understand that this verse means that the justice of God is revealed through the Gospel, but it is a passive justice, i.e. that by which the merciful God justified us by faith, as it is written: 'The just person lives by faith.' All at once I felt that I had been born again and entered into paradise itself through open gates. Immediately I saw the whole of Scripture in a different light. I ran through the Scriptures from memory and found that other terms had analogous meanings, e.g., the work of God, that is, what God works in us; the power of God, by which he makes us powerful; the wisdom of God, by which he meakes us wise; the strength of God, the salvation of God, the glory of God." - Martin Luther, Luther's Tower Experience in his own words

"For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, mighty, and awesome God, showing no partiality and accepting no bribe. He executes justice for the fatherless and widow, and He loves the foreigner, giving him food and clothing." - Deuteronomy 10:17-18

"Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us." - Romans 5:1-5

God's justice is very different from man's justice.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Kenny'sID]

I believe the question asked for the difference...

Justice IS the difference.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Matthew 18:21-22 doesn't apply... good to know.

If you say so

Murdering and mutilating a prisoner after he intended to talk doesn't seem like man's justice...

Why don't you try having every killing in war tried for murder, then maybe someone will explain tot you how that works.

Nah... too Christ-like.

Again, f you say so, not sure what some of your comments here have to do with me?

You'd kind of have to in order to turn the other cheek.

Helloooo? Think "war"

Well, it's bad and badder... not seeing anything Christian about anything being endorsed here.

Still don't get it, do you? It's funny the pertinent factor you had to dismiss in order to create your "bad bad christian" scenario. Your whole post was built on deception.

But, hey, maybe next time.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I don't recall the NT prescribing much of anything in the way of justice for criminals.

But either way, can we dispense with the hypothetical nonsense? This wasn't some law enforcement agency meeting out justice. It was some dude(s) getting carried away and going off the rails. The guy who was pardoned shot and killed a prisoner and then tried to dispose of the body. The guy who's still on trial allegedly did worse.

Did I cite a hypothetical situation or just make some points?

I don't think you were paying attention.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Justice IS the difference.

Whose justice? Ours, theirs, God's, or Donald's?

 

[TLK Valentine]

If you say so

The Bible said so... indeed, that Jesus guy was quite explicit about answering the question you probably meant as rhetorical...

Why don't you try having every killing in war tried for murder, then maybe someone will explain tot you how that works.

Ever hear of a place called Nuremberg?

It is possible to commit murder... even in a war. Maybe someone can explain to you how that works.

Again, f you say so, not sure what some of your comments here have to do with me?

As much as your comments have to do with Christ.

Helloooo? Think "war"

Helloooo? Think "Nuremberg."

Still don't get it, do you? It's funny the pertinent factor you had to dismiss in order to create your "bad bad christian" scenario. Your whole post was built on deception.

Then explain it to me, Christian.

But, hey, maybe next time.

Not likely.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Whose justice? Ours, theirs, God's, or Donald's?

lol. Who just now gave their opinion that it was justice?

See? Mystery solved.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

How is it worse? The man was in his own country.

And he was trying to kill and expel us! Clearly a dangerous terrorist that should have been killed! Everyone that did not welcome us was a terrorist.

 

[Kenny'sID]

It is possible to commit murder... even in a war. Maybe someone can explain to you how that works.

So let's let them decide what is and what isn't.

 

[Pommer]

This pardon looks forward to our coming War with Iran, (brought to you by...the usual Corporations underwriting “MORE WAR! MORE WAR NOW!!!”), so that “our guys” won’t have to overthink the rules-of-engagement and can get a mulligan for “accidentally” murdering an Iranian.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

It was ISIS. They deserve nothing but the worst.

ISIS is backed by America. The Americans are terrorists.

 

[ViaCrucis]

What makes you so sure it's just mans justice? Does God say let the repeated offender thief go with no punishment? I seriously doubt it, so how much less repeat murderers? It's the natural order of a very sensible law, and yeah, mans law, the law the bible says God has his hand on, and for good reason, to punish for the sake of stopping the offender, as well as justice, especially in cases like we are talking about.

Or, how do you think God stops people like ISIS...lightening/loving them to death? Or does he expect good people to not look the other way?

So just maybe your "bad bad Christian" comment is not quite accurate.

"Consider the roads blocked up by robbers, the seas beset with pirates, wars scattered all over the earth with the bloody horror of camps. The whole world is wet with mutual blood; and murder, which in the case of an individual is admitted to be a crime, is called a virtue when it is committed wholesale. Impunity is claimed for the wicked deeds, not on the plea that they are guiltless, but because the cruelty is perpetrated on a grand scale." - St. Cyprian of Carthage, Epistle I.6, c. 250 AD

"During the consulship of Faustus and Gallus, on the 5th day before the kalends of August, when the former centurion of the first cohort had been brought in, the praeses Fortunatus said, 'What were you thinking to discard your belt and hurl down your sword and staff?' Marcellus replied, 'I have already told you on 21 July, loudly and in public, before the standards of this legion, when you were celebrating the anniversary of your emperor, that I am a Christian and cannot observe this oath unless to Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God.'

The praeses Fortunatus said, 'I cannot conceal your rash behavior and so I will report these things to the ears of our lords the Augusti and Caesars. You, of course, will be sent to the court of my lord Aurelius Agricolanus, the vice-praetorian prefect under armed guard by the consular official Cecilius.'

'Manilius Fortunatus sends greetings to his lord Agricolanus. On the anniversary most happy and blessed throughout the whole world of our same lords the Augusti and Caesars, when we were willingly celebrating the festival, lord Aurelius Agricolanus, the centurio ordinarius Marcellus, seized by what madness I do not know, wantonly disgirded himself of belt and sword and decided to hurl down th estaff which he was carrying before the very headquarters of our lords. I have decided that it was necessary to report what was done to your power, even for him to have been sent to you also.'

'During the consulship of Faustus and Gallus, at Tingis, on the third day before the kalends of November, when Marcellus, the former centurion of the first cohort, had been brought in, an official announced, 'The praeses Fortunatus has sent him to your power. There is here for your greatness also a letter concerning his case which I will read out if you so direct.'

Agricolanus said, 'Let it be read out.' When it had been read out, Agricolanus said, 'Did you say those things which are recorded in the praeses' record?'
Marcellus said, 'I did.'
Agricolanus said, 'Were you serving as a centurio ordinarius?'
Marcellus said, 'I was'
Agricolanus said, 'What madness possessed you to cast aside your oath and say such things?'
Marcellus said, 'No madness possesses him who fears God.'
Agricolanus said, 'Did you make these separate statements which are recorded in the praeses' record?'
Marcellus said, 'I did.'
Agricolanus said, 'Did you hurl down your weapons?'
Marcellus said, 'I did. It is not proper for a Christian man, one who fears the Lord Christ, to engage in earthly military service.'
Agricolanus said, 'Marcellus' actions are such that they ought to be disciplined.' And so he stated, 'It pleases the court that Marcellus, who defiled the office of centurion which he held by his public rejection of the oath and, furthermore, according to the praeses' records, gave in testimony words full of madnesss, should be executed by the sword.'" - The Passion of St. Marcellus

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ArmenianJohn]

You know what's worse? Terrorist bomb makers and ISIS.

What's worse is America, a nation that worships money, killing Christians the same way ISIS does and in fact using ISIS to kill Christians. Also, America who was attacked by Al Qaeda on 9/11 turning around and giving money and support and weapons to Al Qaeda so that they can also kill Christians.

You're on the side of the terrorists, including ISIS and Al Qaeda, even if you don't realize it.