LDS LDS Spirit Prison

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Also in the spirit prison are those who rejected the [LDS]gospel after it was preached to them either on earth or in the spirit prison. These spirits suffer in a condition known as hell. They have removed themselves from the mercy of Jesus Christ, who said, “Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; but if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit” (D&C 19:16–18). After suffering for their sins, they will be allowed, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, to inherit the lowest degree of glory, which is the telestial kingdom.

How can LDS say these people will be in some degree of glory? They are eternally separated from the LDS Jesus and the LDS father.
 

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It's kinda like how that can of Vienna sausages is better than going hungry.

That's why Mormon's teach King David went to hell

Status of King David

Question: "Some time ago the question came up as to the standing of King David because of his sin as pertaining to Uriah. Because we understand there is no forgiveness for murder some of the class felt he lost his priesthood and retrogressed from the time of this incident. Others felt that inasmuch as David repented and abhorred his sin and indicated his sorrow, that he did not lose his priesthood. Would you please enlighten us? What is the teaching of the Church on this point? What is his status?"

Answer: David sorely repented all his life, but his sin was so great that he lost everything and the Prophet Joseph Smith has given us this information. Speaking of the Jews whom Peter addressed as recorded in the third chapter of Acts, they could not receive forgiveness for their sins, although they repented, until Christ comes, and the same is true of David. These are the words of the Prophet to the Jews:

A murderer, for instance, one that sheds innocent blood, cannot have forgiveness. David sought repentance at the hand of God carefully with tears, for the murder of Uriah; but he could only get it through hell; he got a promise that his soul should not be left in hell.

Although David was a king, he never did obtain the spirit and power of Elijah and the fulness of the priesthood; and the priesthood that he received, and the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage.

. . . "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing (redemption) shall come from the presence of the Lord, and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you," &c. (Acts 3:19-21.) The time of redemption here had reference to the time when Christ should come; then and not till then, would their sins be blotted out. Why? Because they were murderers, and no murderer hath eternal life. Even David must wait for those times of refreshing, before he can come forth and his sins be blotted out. For Peter, speaking of him says, "David hath not yet ascended into heaven, for his sepulchre is with us to this day." (Acts 2:29.) His remains were then in the tomb. Now, we read that many bodies of the Saints arose at Christ's resurrection, probably all the Saints, but it seems that David did not. (Matthew 27:52-53.) Why? Because he had been a murderer. . . . (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 239, 188.)
 
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BigDaddy4

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You act like this is some sort of new controversy.

David's salvation was in controversy even as far back as when Dante wrote "Paradise", as he directly weighs in on the matter there.
But not a controversy in the First Century Church, of which the lds church is supposed to be a restoration of, isn't it?

Acts 13:22 says, “After removing Saul, he made David their king. God testified concerning him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.‘”

But the lds teaching is that despite David being a man after God's heart and doing everything God wanted him to, David still ends up in hell??? :confused:
 
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You act like this is some sort of new controversy.

David's salvation was in controversy even as far back as when Dante wrote "Paradise", as he directly weighs in on the matter there.

The Bible is clear King David never went to hell

acts 2:


25 “King David quoted Jesus as saying:
‘I know the Lord is always with me. He is helping me. God’s mighty power supports me.
26 ’No wonder my heart is filled with joy and my tongue shouts his praises! For I know all will be well with me in death—
27 ’You will not leave my soul in hell or let the body of your Holy Son decay.
28 ’You will give me back my life and give me wonderful joy in your presence.’
29 “Dear brothers, think! David wasn’t referring to himself when he spoke these words I have quoted, for he died and was buried, and his tomb is still here among us. 30 But he was a prophet, and knew God had promised with an unbreakable oath that one of David’s own descendants would be the Messiah and sit on David’s throne. 31 David was looking far into the future and predicting the Messiah’s resurrection, and saying that the Messiah’s soul would not be left in hell and his body would not decay. 32 He was speaking of Jesus, and we all are witnesses that Jesus rose from the dead.
33 “And now he sits on the throne of highest honor in heaven, next to God. And just as promised, the Father gave him the authority to send the Holy Spirit—with the results you are seeing and hearing today.
34 “No, David was not speaking of himself in these words of his I have quoted, for he never ascended into the skies. Moreover, he further stated, ‘God spoke to my Lord, the Messiah, and said to him, Sit here in honor beside me 35 until I bring your enemies into complete subjection.’

Acts 13:34 “For God had promised to bring him back to life again, no more to die. This is stated in the Scripture that says, ‘I will do for you the wonderful thing I promised David.’ 35 In another Psalm he explained more fully, saying, ‘God will not let his Holy One decay.’ 36 This was not a reference to David, for after David had served his generation according to the will of God, he died and was buried, and his body decayed. 37 No, it was a reference to another—someone God brought back to life, whose body was not touched at all by the ravages of death.


In Mormon Doctrine we have the answer that it wasn't David in Psa 16:8 under Corruption

Corruption is also used to signify the decay and change that will take place after death. Thus David recorded the Lord's promise that he would not suffer his Holy One to see corruption (Ps. 16:10), a promise amply fulfilled in Christ as both Peter (Acts 2:27) and Paul (Acts 13:30-37) testified.


3. The term is further used with reference to the wicked, depraved, and dissolute acts of those who are steeped in iniquity. "He that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting," Paul says (Gal. 6:8); and it is by thus sowing to the Spirit that the saints have "escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2 Pet. 1:4.)



Acts 13:
34 “For God had promised to bring him back to life again, no more to die. This is stated in the Scripture that says, ‘I will do for you the wonderful thing I promised David.’ 35In another Psalm he explained more fully, saying, ‘God will not let his Holy One decay.’ 36 This was not a reference to David, for after David had served his generation according to the will of God, he died and was buried, and his body decayed. —someone God brought back to life, whose body was not touched at all by the ravages of death.£



· Acts 13:22
22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

· 2 Timothy 2:8
8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
 
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Rescued One

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How can LDS say that wicked people will be in some degree of glory? They are eternally separated from the LDS Jesus and the LDS father.

Joseph Smith declared:

The great misery of departed spirits in the world of spirits, where they go after death, is to know that they come short of the glory that others enjoy and that they might have enjoyed themselves, and they are their own accusers.
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 310 - 311.


Doctrine and Covenants 76
112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.

True Christianity teaches that hell is separation from God.
 
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Peter1000

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But not a controversy in the First Century Church, of which the lds church is supposed to be a restoration of, isn't it?

Acts 13:22 says, “After removing Saul, he made David their king. God testified concerning him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.‘”

But the lds teaching is that despite David being a man after God's heart and doing everything God wanted him to, David still ends up in hell??? :confused:
If David was a man after God's heart and doing everything God wanted him to, then did God want David to commit adultery and then commit murder?
 
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Rescued One

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What happened to the actual topic of this thread?

How can LDS say that wicked people will be in some degree of glory? They are eternally separated from the LDS Jesus and the LDS father.

Joseph Smith declared:

The great misery of departed spirits in the world of spirits, where they go after death, is to know that they come short of the glory that others enjoy and that they might have enjoyed themselves, and they are their own accusers.
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 310 - 311.


Doctrine and Covenants 76
112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.

True Christianity teaches that hell is separation from God.
 
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If David was a man after God's heart and doing everything God wanted him to, then did God want David to commit adultery and then commit murder?

Apparently Mormons don't understand the Gospel

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How can LDS say that wicked people will be in some degree of glory? They are eternally separated from the LDS Jesus and the LDS father.

Joseph Smith declared:

The great misery of departed spirits in the world of spirits, where they go after death, is to know that they come short of the glory that others enjoy and that they might have enjoyed themselves, and they are their own accusers.
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 310 - 311.


Doctrine and Covenants 76
112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.

True Christianity teaches that hell is separation from God.

Good Friday.jpg
 
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BigDaddy4

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If David was a man after God's heart and doing everything God wanted him to, then did God want David to commit adultery and then commit murder?
God allowed it to happen. David was human and gave in to human temptations. Despite David's humanness, God still redeemed him. Moses was a murderer, too. God redeemed him. Sometimes God allows people to do bad things to happen to show that no matter what was done, God still loves them. God loves the "who" first, not the "do". I've heard many stories of people doing as bad or worse things these days, finding Jesus, and turning their lives around. What hope would they have if God didn't show his love for all, even murderers and adulterers?
 
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God allowed it to happen. David was human and gave in to human temptations. Despite David's humanness, God still redeemed him. Moses was a murderer, too. God redeemed him. Sometimes God allows people to do bad things to happen to show that no matter what was done, God still loves them. God loves the "who" first, not the "do". I've heard many stories of people doing as bad or worse things these days, finding Jesus, and turning their lives around. What hope would they have if God didn't show his love for all, even murderers and adulterers?

This is just an example how Mormonism doesn't understand the Gospel message of the Bible and God's redemption
 
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Peter1000

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God allowed it to happen. David was human and gave in to human temptations. Despite David's humanness, God still redeemed him. Moses was a murderer, too. God redeemed him. Sometimes God allows people to do bad things to happen to show that no matter what was done, God still loves them. God loves the "who" first, not the "do". I've heard many stories of people doing as bad or worse things these days, finding Jesus, and turning their lives around. What hope would they have if God didn't show his love for all, even murderers and adulterers?
Neither of us know exactly what the outcome is going to be for David. The most tragic character of the OT. We believe that his spirit will be in a spirit prison, until the second resurrection, and he will be allowed to go to heaven, but not the highest levels of heaven, because of his pre-meditated adultery, and pre-meditated murder. Planned and carried out with ruthless cruelty, all for 1 more beautiful woman, after God had given him a hundred beautiful women.

So because of David's grievous sins, he will be allowed in heaven, but the lower level of heaven.

Yes, Moses did execute a murderous Egyptian, but Moses did not plan, with pre-meditation, this event, and the Lord forgave him. But this event did stop him from being able to cross into the Holy Lands.
And what else he lost for his indiscretion we are not privy to.
 
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Peter1000

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This is just an example how Mormonism doesn't understand the Gospel message of the Bible and God's redemption
You keep using the phrase, 'Mormons don't understand'. You tell me exactly what you think will happen to David, and lets see your understanding. You can quote scripture, but tell me in your own words what will happen to David in the resurrection?
 
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Neither of us know exactly what the outcome is going to be for David. The most tragic character of the OT. We believe that his spirit will be in a spirit prison, until the second resurrection, and he will be allowed to go to heaven, but not the highest levels of heaven, because of his pre-meditated adultery, and pre-meditated murder. Planned and carried out with ruthless cruelty, all for 1 more beautiful woman, after God had given him a hundred beautiful women.

So because of David's grievous sins, he will be allowed in heaven, but the lower level of heaven.

Yes, Moses did execute a murderous Egyptian, but Moses did not plan, with pre-meditation, this event, and the Lord forgave him. But this event did stop him from being able to cross into the Holy Lands.
And what else he lost for his indiscretion we are not privy to.


Psalm 32

A Psalm of David. A Contemplation.


1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven,

Whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity,

And in whose spirit there is no deceit.

3 When I kept silent, my bones grew old

Through my groaning all the day long.

4 For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me;

My vitality was turned into the drought of summer.

Selah


5 I acknowledged my sin to You,

And my iniquity I have not hidden.

I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,”

And You forgave the iniquity of my sin.

Selah

Sounds like David was forgiven to me
 
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Peter1000

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How can LDS say that wicked people will be in some degree of glory? They are eternally separated from the LDS Jesus and the LDS father.

After the resurrection, we will all be finally judged and according to that judgement, you will be placed in 1 of 3 heavens. We call the first heaven, the Celestial heaven, and has the most glory, where God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit dwell.
Then there is the second heaven, the Terrestrial heaven, and has some glory, but not nearly that of the Celestial heaven. In this heaven, Jesus and the Holy Spirit will visit and will be among you often, buit will not dwell with you.
Then there is the third heaven, the Telestial heaven, which has some glory, but far less than the Celestial and the Terrestrial glory. Here there is no contact with God or Jesus, for they will not visit or dwell here. The Holy Spirit will visit occasionally, but will not dwell with them.

So even wicked people will bend their knees and many with tears in their eyes will finally acknowledge that Jesus is their Savior and King and will be ushered into heaven because of this acknowledgement.
However, they will be eternally separated from God and Jesus and will have no fellowship with them again.

That is why we can say these things.

And what JS says is true, they will be their own accusers, and will end up in a heaven that fits their frame of mind and comfortability. Those not in the highest Celestial heaven would not be comfortable there, living in close contact with God and Jesus, always being obedient to the Fathers will, working hard to fulfill the Fathers work.
They may feel more comfortable in a less rigorous environment, where Jesus visits occasionally and has a certain relationship with you, but is not in your presence continually.
Others will be far more comfortable outside the influence of God and Jesus altogether, but living in a beautiful place and comfortable in their environment.

The lowest Telestial heaven is a hell of sorts, being outside the influence of God and Jesus.

There is one more place where people will go, and that is outer darkness. This is a place where none of the Godhead will ever be. That is why we call it outer darkness. It will not be dark/pitch black place, but without the influence of God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit it will be metaphorically dark.
These people are only comfortable completely away from the Godhead, but there situation will be hellish in nature, knowing there is no hope to move out of this darkness.
 
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Peter1000

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Psalm 32

A Psalm of David. A Contemplation.


1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven,

Whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity,

And in whose spirit there is no deceit.

3 When I kept silent, my bones grew old

Through my groaning all the day long.

4 For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me;

My vitality was turned into the drought of summer.

Selah


5 I acknowledged my sin to You,

And my iniquity I have not hidden.

I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,”

And You forgave the iniquity of my sin.

Selah

Sounds like David was forgiven to me
Sounds like David may think his sins are forgiven. I believe that God has forgiven him too. And, I also believe he will be in heaven, probably the second or Terrestrial heaven.
 
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drstevej

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Sounds like David may think his sins are forgiven. I believe that God has forgiven him too. And, I also believe he will be in heaven, probably the second or Terrestrial heaven.

2 bedroom or 3?
 
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