The Power of Prayer

[Kenny'sID]

The OP begs the question, what's the point of coming to a christian website, and telling them prayer doesn't work?

 

[cvanwey]

You have been a believer for decades and have no doubt read the book several times, yet you have not acquired any knowledge from it?

Who said I did not acquire any knowledge from it. I acquire useful tools from practically any book I read.

You see creation all around you,

I do?

yet you don't know of your Creator's existence?

I would if He ever answered my repeated and requested prayer requests, in accordance with the promises made by the very book in which I revered for decades.

You have served the Son for all that time only to fall away on purpose.

Such conclusions are not intentional, such conclusions actually do not involve choice. Case and point, can you choose to believe in something you do not currently believe in, without some sort of evidence/catalyst for the change in your current belief? The answer is no.

You appear to me to be the classic example of the man in Hebrews 6:4-6. We are wasting our time on you. Hopefully for your sake my understanding of that passage is incorrect.

I disagree.

 

[cvanwey]

The OP begs the question, what's the point of coming to a christian website, and telling them prayer doesn't work?

Well, this is an apologist's arena. You figure it out

'a person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial'

Thus, I have a rebuttal question. If you are not here to defend your faith, why are you here? There exists many categories. Maybe this one is not your cup of tea?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Well, this is an apologist's arena. You figure it out

'a person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial'

Thus, I have a rebuttal question. If you are not here to defend your faith, why are you here? There exists many categories. Maybe this one is not your cup of tea?

How you say? You figure it out?

So I get that from you, while you expect me to answer your question? How could anyone even think that was fair, much less actually state it? We are NOT off to a good start here.

 

[cvanwey]

How you say? You figure it out?

So I get that from you, while you expect me to answer your question? How could anyone even think that was fair, much less actually state it? We are NOT off to a good start here.

I don't expect you to answer my question. You posted another question. I answered it. If you have nothing to present, to my OP, then I have nothing to offer, other than answering your existing question. You are free to address the post, or not. But don't ask such questions in the future... This is an apologist based forum, which requires permission to join. I'm quite baffled, as to why you would actually ask as such.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

The OP begs the question, what's the point of coming to a christian website, and telling them prayer doesn't work?

@cvanwey is quite right. If prayer doesn't work, and you want to know why not, asking Christians seems a reasonable move.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I don't expect you to answer my question. You posted another question. I answered it. If you have nothing to present, to my OP, then I have nothing to offer, other than answering your existing question. You are free to address the post, or not. But don't ask such questions in the future... This is an apologist based forum, which requires permission to join. I'm quite baffled, as to why you would actually ask as such.

Baffled? lol, it gets asked often around here, and is a perfectly legit question.

If you couldn't answer, just say so...thanks just the same.

 

[Kenny'sID]

@cvanwey is quite right. If prayer doesn't work, and you want to know why not, asking Christians seems a reasonable move.

Why would you care if it works or not?

 

[cvanwey]

Baffled? lol, it gets asked often around here, and is a perfectly legit question.

If you couldn't answer, just say so...thanks just the same.

I commend them then for handling such an obvious question, with kid gloves, by not telling you the nature of this arena; that people are going to ask believers challenging questions, because that is the nature of (this) arena. Oh, but I did answer your question. The apologist's job here is to defend their faith.

If you wish to actually present a case, as to why (you) also feel my OP is begging the question, be my guest, light it up Demonstrate the error of my ways.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Oh, but I did answer your question.

The following was not an answer, but I already told you, I was fine with that, so thanks again.

You figure it out

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Why would you care if it works or not?

Because it's interesting. There exists an all-powerful being, you say, and people can actually talk to Him? How fascinating!

And if I had tried, as @cvanwey has, thousands of times, and not received a single reply, of any kind, I might wonder if I had done something wrong, and go to ask some of the other people who say they talk to God, to see if they can help.

 

[cvanwey]

The following was not an answer, but I already told you, I was fine with that, so thanks again.

Oh, I've figured it out. You started by stating my OP was fallacious. You then stated 'what's the point of coming to a christian website, and telling them prayer doesn't work?'

You then later told me we are not getting off to a good start.

The first was not really addressed, as I let it slide. But I answered your question.

'so thanks again'

 

[Kenny'sID]

Because it's interesting. There exists an all-powerful being, you say, and people can actually talk to Him? How fascinating!

About as fascinating as Boom! and the universe and all it's intricacies were just there from nothing.

At least God makes sense from the onset.

Oh, I've figured it out. You started by stating my OP was fallacious. You then stated 'what's the point of coming to a christian website, and telling them prayer doesn't work?'

You then later told me we are not getting off to a good start.

The first was not really addressed, as I let it slide. But I answered your question.

'so thanks again'

I've made my point, something you clearly cannot refute, so not much sense in further argument.

 

[cvanwey]

I've made my point, something you clearly cannot refute, so not much sense in further argument.

You are too funny. I have a simple suggestion for you. Take a peak at the description, just under the title "Christian Apologists". Spoiler alert, here's what it states:

'A forum for non-Christians to challenge the Christian faith, and for Christians to defend their faith.'

 

[Kenny'sID]

You are too funny. I have a simple suggestion for you. Take a peak at the description, just under the title "Christian Apologists". Spoiler alert, here's what it states:

'A forum for non-Christians to challenge the Christian faith, and for Christians to defend their faith.'

And?

What does that have to do with my question? Nothing whatsoever. Now that's funny.

 

[cvanwey]

And?

What does that have to do with my question? Nothing whatsoever. Now that's funny.

Post #61. And yes, it is funny.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Post #61. And yes, it is funny.

lol

 

[cvanwey]

lol

You agree. Great.

If you would like to now also tackle why you feel my OP is fallacious, I'm waiting.

Otherwise, peace.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

About as fascinating as Boom! and the universe and all it's intricacies were just there from nothing.

At least God makes sense from the onset.

Leaving aside the Cosmological Argument bait for another thread, what I'm getting from this is that you agree that the question of how prayer works is an interesting one, and so it's not surprising that atheists would want to discuss it.

In which case, I thank you for answering your own question from post #68, "Why would you care if it works or not?"
I care because it's interesting.
I'm the Interested Atheist.

 

[FIRESTORM314]

Well, that's a discussion for another time. Right now, I'm not saying that prayer is about making requests. I'm asking you, if prayer suddenly - hypothetically - stopped working, what would the difference be?

I see. And does God share His thoughts with you when you pray, or with any Christian when they pray? Would we then expect to see a loss of communication from God, if prayer were to stop working?

I see. So there would be something missing. Not miracles happening, not things being given, not questions being answered, not verbal responses. But an...emotional response? A feeling of closeness and companionship? It's that that would be missing?

That wasn't actually what I meant, and perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I meant, if prayer were to "suddenly stop working" what would be the consequences of that effect?
Now, from what you've said, the consequences of prayer no longer working would be very little different to when prayer does work; so little different that some - many? most? - Christians would not notice any difference at all. Would that be fair? Or is there a difference they would notice more and more over time?

I don't think yo see at all

The mystery of the Gospel is Christ in You.

If you are married and live separate lives in the same house - don't talk, don't share, don't work together you are still aware of the other person living with you. You are also still legally married but not functioning in union. Then once a week you give your shopping list to your other half. If the missus decided to stop doing the shopping as you requested you can guarantee that she has had enough. Yes - many live like this and get along but how poor is that relationship? If God stopped answering my prayers or being close with me I'd have to genuinely examine myself and my relationship with God. Something would be wrong.

Could I get by - yes - I could carry on in a poor relationship of my own making and not try and correct it. How would that affect my quality of life? Many marriages are lived out like this. Something would eventually give in the long run.

Would I notice if prayers didn't get answered. I think I would be dead about 30 years ago. My son would have died when he was three years old. Miracles do happen now and then and when they do they are life altering and can be a matter of life and death.

Isaiah 6:9
And He replied, "Go and tell this people: 'Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.'

Isaiah was speaking to you.