100% going to heaven vs sometimes doubtful of it. Who is the correct person?

[Jonathan Mathews]

So do you think it's possible they were/are given an opportunity to repent before the final judgement? Why else did Jesus preach to those souls and have it recorded in scripture?

You're talking about 1 Peter 3:18-20. The misunderstanding is that Christ preached to them AFTER they died and went to Hell (Prison). But that is not what the Scripture is saying. The word is saying that Christ went to the people of Noah's days thru the Spirit of Christ in Noah as he preached to them, but they were disobedient. Even at the time of Peter's writing this, those same spirits were NOW/PRESENTLY in prison. The resurrected Christ preached to the wicked people of Noah's day IN SPIRIT thru Noah's preaching. No one dies, goes to Hell, and then get's out. That is a false understanding of 1 Peter 3:18-20. If you read the original Greek transliteration, you can see it more clearly:

 

[GodsGrace101]

No. Those held in prison (Hell) are those evil men of Noah's day to whom the Spirit of Christ went thru the preaching of Noah, but who also rejected Christ (speaking thru Noah's preaching) and since dying, have remained in prison, being held for final judgement where they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Yes, I've heard this.
What I don't understand is that if Jesus went to preach to those...why not also others that are in "hell"...or wherever they were?

What would make them so special?

 

[GodsGrace101]

You're talking about 1 Peter 3:18-20. The misunderstanding is that Christ preached to them AFTER they died and went to Hell (Prison). But that is not what the Scripture is saying. The word is saying that Christ went to the people of Noah's days thru the Spirit of Christ in Noah as he preached to them, but they were disobedient. Even at the time of Peter's writing this, those same spirits were NOW/PRESENTLY in prison. The resurrected Christ preached to the wicked people of Noah's day IN SPIRIT thru Noah's preaching. No one dies, goes to Hell, and then get's out. That is a false understanding of 1 Peter 3:18-20. If you read the original Greek transliteration, you can see it more clearly:

Yes,,,see I also can't understand the above.

Did you say that Jesus preached to those prisoners from Noah's day in spirit and they refused Him?

How could that be, if so?
One would have to be mindless....

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

Yes, I've heard this.
What I don't understand is that if Jesus went to preach to those...why not also others that are in "hell"...or wherever they were?

What would make them so special?

God preached to every man who has ever lived. "The Heavens DECLARE the Glory of God" (Psalms 19:1).
God says it again .... (Romans 1:20)
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse"

 

[lsume]

Who is more correct in their view?
A. A person who knows without a doubt they are 100% going to heaven.
B. A person who sometimes has doubts about it?

May seem like an obvious answer of A is the right choice as they are sure they know where they are going. But the bible does say many will stand before Him and He will say "Go away, I do not know you." This is why I feel person B is more correct. Many people sometimes have doubts or worries. It's normal.

But often I find people A to be "holier than thou", judgemental, self-righteous...etc. The kind of people that the bible says often are knocked down from their perch of being so sure of themselves. They often say they never screw up, brag about their works and how perfect they are in Christ. Never show humility...etc. Like "Well I have never done <insert sin>, you must not believe enough if you have issue sometimes!".

Admiteddly whatever the case I don't even know, only God does. But I'd rather sometimes question myself than pretend I am perfect. I never even pretend to be perfect. If someone needs reproof I openly admit my imperfections so they see I'm not just pointing out the speck in their eye while ignoring my log. To me this is the best way to help someone. Being perfect just puts up defenses and comes across as dangerous in my mind.

Then they have received their reward. However, our mission is first to get right with Christ ourselves.

 

[GodsGrace101]

God preached to every man who has ever lived. "The Heavens DECLARE the Glory of God" (Psalms 19:1).
God says it again .... (Romans 1:20)
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse"

Good as to Romans. God has revealed Himself to every man through His creation.

This doesn't mean Jesus went anywhere in the lower earth to preach to anyone.

What I was asking is why were those of Noah's time more special than anyone else that Jesus should physically (but in the spirit) go to them after He was crucified?

We may not have the answer.
Not everything is answered to our satisfaction.

 

[Chris V++]

The resurrected Christ preached to the wicked people of Noah's day IN SPIRIT thru Noah's preaching. No one dies, goes to Hell, and then get's out. That is a false understanding of 1 Peter 3:18-20. If you read the original Greek transliteration, you can see it more clearly:

Good as to Romans. God has revealed Himself to every man through His creation.

This doesn't mean Jesus went anywhere in the lower earth to preach to anyone.

What I was asking is why were those of Noah's time more special than anyone else that Jesus should physically (but in the spirit) go to them after He was crucified?

We may not have the answer.
Not everything is answered to our satisfaction.

I'm not sure what was meant by' resurrected Christ preached In Spirit thru Noah's preaching. ' Does that mean that there is a problem with the tense in the translation, or that since Christ stands outside of time his spirit preached through Noah. What's the proper time line?

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

Good as to Romans. God has revealed Himself to every man through His creation.

This doesn't mean Jesus went anywhere in the lower earth to preach to anyone.

What I was asking is why were those of Noah's time more special than anyone else that Jesus should physically (but in the spirit) go to them after He was crucified?

We may not have the answer.
Not everything is answered to our satisfaction.

He didn't go to them after He was crucified. He went to them IN NOAH, while they were still on the earth, but they disobeyed and are NOW in prison (Hell). I don't think the people in the days of Noah were special. I think Christ preached to them thru Noah because a destruction of the entire world was coming. In the same way, Christ comes to us and the world thru the Apostles and the whole Church to preach to the modern world because the destruction of the world is coming again, this time by Fire.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I'm not sure what was meant by' resurrected Christ preached In Spirit thru Noah's preaching. ' Does that mean that there is a problem with the tense in the translation, or that since Christ stands outside of time his spirit preached through Noah. What's the proper time line?

@Jonathan Mathews will speak for himself, but I believe he means that from the beginning of time persons had a change to be saved through accepting God, which was like accepting Jesus death and resurrection since this is the plan God had in mind to save those that wished to be saved.

If you remember, in Luke 16, The Rich Man and Lazarus, we have the true story that Jesus told about a place called Hades where the wicked were already being punished and the saved were waiting to go to heaven in the comfort of Abraham's Bossom. After Jesus died He went there and freed these to go to heaven where the gate was now open.

When Jesus was still on the cross the veil to the temple was torn in two from top to bottom...at this moment heaven's gates were open and everyone was invited into the "Holy of Holies" where before only the High Priest could enter. This meant that now heaven's gates were open.
Luke 15:37-38

The bible also speaks of prisoners to whom Jesus went to preach after He died.

The other poster believes this was to the lost at Noah's time. Theologians are not sure of what this refers to..it's just too unclear to state anything for sure.

You might find the following interesting:
Preaching to the Spirits in Prison

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

I'm not sure what was meant by' resurrected Christ preached In Spirit thru Noah's preaching. ' Does that mean that there is a problem with the tense in the translation, or that since Christ stands outside of time his spirit preached through Noah. What's the proper time line?

The latter.... Christ is the Eternal Word of God in the flesh. He existed with God, as God from the beginning. His Spirit preached thru Noah, but they disobeyed and died and are imprisoned in Hell until this very day, awaiting Judgement. Those spirits that disobeyed Noah's preaching are NOW in Hell, even though Christ preached to them thru Noah, while they were alive on earth.

 

[GodsGrace101]

He didn't go to them after He was crucified. He went to them IN NOAH, while they were still on the earth, but they disobeyed and are NOW in prison (Hell). I don't think the people in the days of Noah were special. I think Christ preached to them thru Noah because a destruction of the entire world was coming. In the same way, Christ comes to us and the world thru the Apostles and the whole Church to preach to the modern world because the destruction of the world is coming again, this time by Fire.

Very interesting theory.
Not all theologians would accept this, although some do. You're saying Jesus went to the lost of Noah's time because God ended the world. It's an interesting concept....

 

[GodsGrace101]

The latter.... Christ is the Eternal Word of God in the flesh. He existed with God, as God from the beginning. His Spirit preached thru Noah, but they disobeyed and died and are imprisoned in Hell until this very day, awaiting Judgement. Those spirits that disobeyed Noah's preaching are NOW in Hell, even though Christ preached to them thru Noah, while they were alive on earth.

I think you would also like that link I posted....

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

@Jonathan Mathews will speak for himself, but I believe he means that from the beginning of time persons had a change to be saved through accepting God, which was like accepting Jesus death and resurrection since this is the plan God had in mind to save those that wished to be saved.

If you remember, in Luke 16, The Rich Man and Lazarus, we have the true story that Jesus told about a place called Hades where the wicked were already being punished and the saved were waiting to go to heaven in the comfort of Abraham's Bossom. After Jesus died He went there and freed these to go to heaven where the gate was now open.

When Jesus was still on the cross the veil to the temple was torn in two from top to bottom...at this moment heaven's gates were open and everyone was invited into the "Holy of Holies" where before only the High Priest could enter. This meant that now heaven's gates were open.
Luke 15:37-38

The bible also speaks of prisoners to whom Jesus went to preach after He died.

The other poster believes this was to the lost at Noah's time. Theologians are not sure of what this refers to..it's just too unclear to state anything for sure.

You might find the following interesting:
Preaching to the Spirits in Prison

We differ on WHEN Christ preached to those "now" in prison. You think Christ went to them after He died, in Spirit, and took them out of Hell. You believe people can die and go to Hell and Christ can/will still take them out into Heaven. I teach that Christ did NOT go to those people in Hell after He died. He went to them IN SPIRIT thru Noah's preaching in Noah's day ONLY, and when they died they went to Hell, where they have remained until this day. I teach that EVERYONE who dies without being Born of God, goes to Hell and stays there until they are resurrected for Final Judgement where they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. Salvation is only offered during your life. God will judge you for the works done "IN YOUR BODY" (2 Corinthians 5:10).

DO NOT BE DECEIVED! If you die without Christ, you will go to Hell, you will be Judged, and you will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, just as Satan, the Anti-Christ, the False Prophet, Hell and even Death itself will.

 

[Rescued One]

You're not a fluke...
It's just that some believe that somewhere down the line they might abandon God...not that this is common; it's just a possibility.

They won't. He holds them in the palm of His hand; not even Satan can persuade them to jump out of His hand.

And it's those persons that believe they can be saved and then even return to a life of sin and they'd STILL be saved that tend to be a little, proud, let's say.

The people you describe aren't Christians.

I believe the rest of us might feel a bit more humble in God's presence. Humble, but loved.

Luke 18
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

Christians know that righteousness can only come from God.

Luke 18
18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

 

[Rescued One]

When Christ spoke to those who had been condemned, I believe He was informing them of of His triumph over sin and death.

 

[GodsGrace101]

We differ on WHEN Christ preached to those "now" in prison. You think Christ went to them after He died, in Spirit, and took them out of Hell. You believe people can die and go to Hell and Christ can/will still take them out into Heaven. I teach that Christ did NOT go to those people in Hell after He died. He went to them IN SPIRIT thru Noah's preaching in Noah's day ONLY, and when they died they went to Hell, where they have remained until this day. I teach that EVERYONE who dies without being Born of God, goes to Hell and stays there until they are resurrected for Final Judgement where they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. Salvation is only offered during your life. God will judge you for the works done "IN YOUR BODY" (2 Corinthians 5:10).

DO NOT BE DECEIVED! If you die without Christ, you will go to Hell, you will be Judged, and you will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, just as Satan, the Anti-Christ, the False Prophet, Hell and even Death itself will.

I agree with the above.
Paul said that we die once and then comes the judgement.
Hebrews 9:27

 

[GodsGrace101]

They won't. He holds them in the palm of His hand; not even Satan can persuade them to jump out of His hand.

The people you describe aren't Christians.

Luke 18
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

Christians know that righteousness can only come from God.

Luke 18
18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

I agree with you that those who think they could live as the wish are not Christian; however, THEY think they are because of this Once Saved Always Saved idea, which I think you also believe in.

I believe in eternal security but conditional.
The condition is that we must be IN CHRIST.

 

[SamsonXX]

I seriously doubt in "Absolution".

Luke 17:3-4

As a sinner, I can't absorb that.

 

[Kenny'sID]

We need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

I have to constantly make sure I'm not doing something that will keep me from heaven, as there are several lists of sins in the bible that are very specific of the sins as well as the fact we'll not make it to heaven if we do those things.

The narrow way, means the narrow way, and we have to be sure we stay on that path.

I guess the short of it is, we need to take heed of what we are told we must do, and do it, constantly checking up on ourselves to be sure we aren't falling off the wagon so to speak.

Now that I think about it, I suppose it is a bit like an Alcoholic that was addicted to sin, and needs to not fall off the wagon, always being mindful of the pitfalls, living and learning along the way.

It ain't over until the fat lady sings.

 

[GodsGrace101]

We need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

I have to constantly make sure I'm not doing something that will keep me from heaven, as there are several lists of sins in the bible that are very specific of the sins as well as the fact we'll not make it to heaven if we do those things.

The narrow way, means the narrow way, and we have to be sure we stay on that path.

I guess the short of it is, we need to take heed of what we are told we must do, and do it, constantly checking up on ourselves to be sure we aren't falling off the wagon so to speak.

Now that I think about it, I suppose it is a bit like an Alcoholic that was addicted to sin, and needs to not fall off the wagon, always being mindful of the pitfalls, living and learning along the way.

It ain't over until the fat lady sings.

I agree with you and feel that your way is more secure.

However, do you think we should reach a point where we don't feel like we're sinning all the time and could rest in Jesus' love and have some feeling of security?