100% going to heaven vs sometimes doubtful of it. Who is the correct person?

[NothingIsImpossible]

Who is more correct in their view?
A. A person who knows without a doubt they are 100% going to heaven.
B. A person who sometimes has doubts about it?

May seem like an obvious answer of A is the right choice as they are sure they know where they are going. But the bible does say many will stand before Him and He will say "Go away, I do not know you." This is why I feel person B is more correct. Many people sometimes have doubts or worries. It's normal.

But often I find people A to be "holier than thou", judgemental, self-righteous...etc. The kind of people that the bible says often are knocked down from their perch of being so sure of themselves. They often say they never screw up, brag about their works and how perfect they are in Christ. Never show humility...etc. Like "Well I have never done <insert sin>, you must not believe enough if you have issue sometimes!".

Admiteddly whatever the case I don't even know, only God does. But I'd rather sometimes question myself than pretend I am perfect. I never even pretend to be perfect. If someone needs reproof I openly admit my imperfections so they see I'm not just pointing out the speck in their eye while ignoring my log. To me this is the best way to help someone. Being perfect just puts up defenses and comes across as dangerous in my mind.

 

[Sanoy]

The way I live my life is that I choose to do what I do out of passion and love for God's nature, and the personal relationship He has revealed to all Christians. Whether I die, or go to heaven is inconsequential, no matter the outcome I can do no other but continue to draw near. I think that is the way to go, worrying not about the end, but about drawing near to God today.

 

[Anthony2019]

I concern myself with neither. Whatever happens to me in the hereafter I entrust to the mercy and love of God.

I am more concerned about living in the Kingdom of God in the present.

Jesus stated the Kingdom of God was like a man who took a mustard seed, the smallest in the world, and planted it. After a while it grew to become the biggest of all plants and the birds came and made their nests in its shade.

When we place our faith in Christ, we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, who works in us and produces fruit in our lives: joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faith, modesty, self-control and chastity.

We cannot produce fruit by our own work or merits, but by abiding in Christ and allowing Him to work through us by his Holy Spirit.

Jesus said "by their fruits you will know them". It is our fruits that determine whether we are living for Christ and part of His Kingdom. If we continue abiding in Him and remaining faithful to Him, we shall be amongst those who will be called his good and faithful servants. Jesus said that those who can be trusted with little, will be trusted with more. They will be the ones who share in their master's happiness.

 

[Rescued One]

Who is more correct in their view?
A. A person who knows without a doubt they are 100% going to heaven.
B. A person who sometimes has doubts about it?

May seem like an obvious answer of A is the right choice as they are sure they know where they are going. But the bible does say many will stand before Him and He will say "Go away, I do not know you." This is why I feel person B is more correct. Many people sometimes have doubts or worries. It's normal.

But often I find people A to be "holier than thou", judgemental, self-righteous...etc. The kind of people that the bible says often are knocked down from their perch of being so sure of themselves. They often say they never screw up, brag about their works and how perfect they are in Christ. Never show humility...etc. Like "Well I have never done <insert sin>, you must not believe enough if you have issue sometimes!".

Admiteddly whatever the case I don't even know, only God does. But I'd rather sometimes question myself than pretend I am perfect. I never even pretend to be perfect. If someone needs reproof I openly admit my imperfections so they see I'm not just pointing out the speck in their eye while ignoring my log. To me this is the best way to help someone. Being perfect just puts up defenses and comes across as dangerous in my mind.

You left out a lot of people. I'm not judging anyone nor have I made myself righteous. No one deserves heaven --- it's because of God's mercy.

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthian 1:6-8
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: 7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Who is more correct in their view?
A. A person who knows without a doubt they are 100% going to heaven.
B. A person who sometimes has doubts about it?

May seem like an obvious answer of A is the right choice as they are sure they know where they are going. But the bible does say many will stand before Him and He will say "Go away, I do not know you." This is why I feel person B is more correct. Many people sometimes have doubts or worries. It's normal.

But often I find people A to be "holier than thou", judgemental, self-righteous...etc. The kind of people that the bible says often are knocked down from their perch of being so sure of themselves. They often say they never screw up, brag about their works and how perfect they are in Christ. Never show humility...etc. Like "Well I have never done <insert sin>, you must not believe enough if you have issue sometimes!".

Admiteddly whatever the case I don't even know, only God does. But I'd rather sometimes question myself than pretend I am perfect. I never even pretend to be perfect. If someone needs reproof I openly admit my imperfections so they see I'm not just pointing out the speck in their eye while ignoring my log. To me this is the best way to help someone. Being perfect just puts up defenses and comes across as dangerous in my mind.

I like what @Anthony2019 posted.

And, I can say that I agree with what you've said.
Persons that are very sure are also very proudful and boastful. I think we all must have doubts every now and then if we understand that we're to live in the Kingdom of God and that we have a part in our salvation.

I don't, however, think we should be downtrodden and worrying about our salvation all the time. Jesus said He came to give us a life more abundant -- it cannot be abundant if we have no joy.

And, as the other poster said, we must trust God's mercy, His love and His justice.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Persons that are very sure are also very proudful and boastful.

My confidence is in Christ, and not in myself. I see no reason to doubt, and no reason not to, "boast in the hope of the glory of God." (Romans 5:2)

 

[com7fy8]

I'm not just pointing out the speck in their eye while ignoring my log.

Yes, I have needed to get more into having compassion >

"He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)

 

[com7fy8]

drawing near to God today.

"Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

From this, I see that God wants us to personally submit to Him. And then if we are submissive to Him, we are doing only what He personally guides us to do . . . all the time . . . big things or small things. And He corrects us in our nature so we can be submissive to Him in His peace >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

This is one basic of what we are called to do as Christians.

So, yes I would say, this is where our attention needs to be . . . now, all the time . . . versus only claiming a doctrine of where we will go or might go, and mainly arguing and claiming whatever we think is true, and learning more and more verses to support what we believe, but not being busy with personally submitting to how our Heavenly Father rules each of us in His own peace.

 

[GodsGrace101]

My confidence is in Christ, and not in myself. I see no reason to doubt, and no reason not to, "boast in the hope of the glory of God." (Romans 5:2)

Yes,,, I hear this a lot.
Could you post some scripture that supports your position?

It would have to say that Christ has done all for us,,,we are not responsible for doing anything at all, and that you are not to have any confidence in yourself.

Anything like that would be very helpful.

 

[Halbhh]

Who is more correct in their view?
A. A person who knows without a doubt they are 100% going to heaven.
B. A person who sometimes has doubts about it?

May seem like an obvious answer of A is the right choice as they are sure they know where they are going. But the bible does say many will stand before Him and He will say "Go away, I do not know you." This is why I feel person B is more correct. Many people sometimes have doubts or worries. It's normal.

But often I find people A to be "holier than thou", judgemental, self-righteous...etc. The kind of people that the bible says often are knocked down from their perch of being so sure of themselves. They often say they never screw up, brag about their works and how perfect they are in Christ. Never show humility...etc. Like "Well I have never done <insert sin>, you must not believe enough if you have issue sometimes!".

Admiteddly whatever the case I don't even know, only God does. But I'd rather sometimes question myself than pretend I am perfect. I never even pretend to be perfect. If someone needs reproof I openly admit my imperfections so they see I'm not just pointing out the speck in their eye while ignoring my log. To me this is the best way to help someone. Being perfect just puts up defenses and comes across as dangerous in my mind.

Paul continued to strive:
Philippians 3 NIV

 

[RaymondG]

If I were to choose which position would be wiser, I would say the position of doubt....... For one who is in doubt is more likely to continue to seek.

Nevertheless, I believe that one who holds either of these two positions until death....is in danger of hellfire...

 

[com7fy8]

I am more concerned about living in the Kingdom of God in the present.

I would say you are right, about this.

One thing I believe is that, if we want to be in Heaven, later, we have in us now what we will have there >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

So, now already, in every child of God, Jesus is sharing His own love with each of us, right "in our hearts". This is now, no procrastinating while we keep on sinning and having major problems inside ourselves, but plan on going to Heaven later. But this is Heaven's own love, now, in Heaven's Holy Spirit sent to us.

So, already, in Jesus, we are even experiencing how Heaven is by experiencing this love of God in us. We grow in this, as the grace of this love cures our nature so we can so share with God.

My personal experience, I consider, and scripture show me how God's love is kind and gentle and quiet > 1 Peter 3:4 < in His beauty and pleasant rest having Heaven's quality. And this is God's love > God is all-loving; so this love has us loving any and all people. And our Apostle Paul says to pray "for all men" > 1 Timothy 2:1-4 < he says to do this praying, "first of all". So, yes God wants us to live and to love in this all-loving love, praying with hope for any and all people . . . like how Jesus on the cross had hope for any evil person, at all, and we are directed to love like this >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

Love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7). So, this is a basic of how we become and love in our Father's kingdom, more and more as we grow in Jesus.

Plus, God is almighty against however fear would try to get the better of God. And in God's love we share with God in this almighty power against howsoever fear would try to get the better of us >

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

Each of us has needed to be "made" perfect in God's love. There is hope for any person to be changed out of one's own nature, so he or she is perfected in God's love and therefore so evil and its fear and "torment" can not get the better of that person. God has proven Himself in us, like this, so now we know He is able to change any other person, too, out of fear and torment, and into personal and sensitive and submissive sharing with Him . . . and with us This is in God's kingdom > God's realm > of how God is and experiences love.

 

[Anthony2019]

If I were to choose which position would be wiser, I would say the position of doubt....... For one who is in doubt is more likely to continue to seek.

Paul stated we should examine ourselves to see if we were in the faith. During the Eucharist, we are called to examine our consciences and not to partake in an unworthy manner. An expert in the law asked Jesus what he should do to attain eternal life. Jesus told him that we were to love the Lord our God with all our heart, with all our soul, all our strength and all our mind and to love our neighbour as ourself. Discipleship is very costly and it is a lifelong commitment. There will be periods of doubt, periods of questioning, but that is the kind of humility we should be striving for: the humility that states "not my will, but your will be done".

 

[GodsGrace101]

If I were to choose which position would be wiser, I would say the position of doubt....... For one who is in doubt is more likely to continue to seek.

Nevertheless, I believe that one who holds either of these two positions until death....is in danger of hellfire...

Why would either one be in danger of hellfire?

 

[com7fy8]

Persons that are very sure are also very proudful and boastful.

My confidence is in Christ, and not in myself. I see no reason to doubt, and no reason not to, "boast in the hope of the glory of God." (Romans 5:2)

Yes,,, I hear this a lot.
Could you post some scripture that supports your position?

God is able to make us sure.

We have the witness of the Holy Spirit > Romans 8:16.

But what is the Biblical reason to be sure?

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

Our sureness needs to not be only because of a string of Bible verses which say we can't lose our salvation. But "because as He is, so are we in this world." And this is because of how God's love has been curing our nature so more and more we are like Jesus so pleasing to our Father, and so generously all-loving and forgiving.

Becoming like Jesus our Groom is why really we are ready to spend eternity with Him and one another. And, of course, we got started in this by how we "first trusted in Christ" (in Ephesians 1:12). We have come to personally trust in Jesus > for all Christ has done for us on Calvary, and now for how through His resurrection (1 Peter 1:3) "we shall be saved by His life," Paul says in Romans 5:10.

In sin, we were love-dead. But Jesus got us reconciled with God, through His death. And God "made us alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins" > in Ephesians 2:1. And the life of His love now is changing us in our nature so more and more we are His way in His love > "as He is, so are we in this world" (in 1 John 4:17), and this is our reason, "that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (in 1 John 4:17)

So, if this is what someone means by saying he or she is confident in Christ, I would say this is the scriptural basis.

Also, we have >

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation," (in Philippians 2:13-16)

This shows how in this evil world's "crooked and perverse generation" we can "become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault" > the way God's love makes us blameless, harmless, and "without fault". So, this needs to be what someone means if the person says he or she is right with God.

Arguing and complaining, then, are anti-love. So, as we grow in Jesus, get real correction of our character, we become sensitive to and strong to reject anything in us which would get us to complain or argue. And instead we become strong in God's own love and way of relating in His love.

And this is very assuring, how God in us proves Himself to us. This proves how He is able to make us genuine and stable, more and more, so we are ready to spend all eternity with Him.

There are different things which are forms of complaining and fear > boredom, loneliness, depression, unforgiveness. And our Apostle Paul says,

Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)

So we need to get rid of such anti-love things so we can become "tenderhearted" and generously forgiving, "even as God in Christ forgave you." As we grow in this, this is included in our Biblical assurance.

Jesus says if we don't forgive, we won't be forgiven (Mark 11:25). So, as we become forgiving "even as God" . . . how He forgives lovingly and tenderheartedly, this I would say is Biblical assurance. This is not only about feeling good that we will get ourselves to Heaven, though; but this is about how we desire to become pleasing to our Father, by being sweetly kind and compassionately forgiving, not only forgiving in order to get rid of someone from our minds, but adopting (Romans 8:15) evil people with our prayer for them, so we are ready for them to join us as Jesus family. Right on the cross, Jesus prayed with caring for wrong people > "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." (in Luke 23:34)

So, as we become God's way of family loving, this is included in our confidence in Jesus who is so about family, including adopting evil people to become children of God.

So, you might talk with people who claim they have confidence in Jesus and let them speak for themselves about what they mean.

 

[RaymondG]

Why would either one be in danger of hellfire?

Because they both assume a future salvation......when Today is the day of Salvation.

 

[CodyFaith]

A is more correct, so long as they actually do know.

I feel like it's often a mix of A and B... and that may seem contradictory but I don't feel it is.

You can have knowledge you are going to Heaven, and yet "a part" of you might bring about doubts here or there. I'm reminded of a piece of scripture that says we see in part. So on one hand you do know in your inner being, and more often than not your inner being convinces your whole self... but sometimes your temporal and fearful sides get the best of you.

An important part of all this is that the person actually knows. Someone has already quoted vital scripture here that says to examine yourself to see if you're in the faith. And while that examination itself is an act of faith, for the entire realm of Christianity is faith, ultimately whoever examines themselves need to come to an eventual conclusion of confidence. That sort of "see in part, faith in part" place.

I don't believe it to be a good stance to not worry about where you're going and just do "the works of Christ" and focus on bringing good into the world. This is what Jesus said is the work of God:
John 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Bringing salvation to sinners was and is Jesus' main goal. That is the gospel, to trust in Jesus work on the cross for payment for all sin, past, present and future, and to have your name written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

So whoever says they want to do the work of Christ and yet they ignore the fact that Christ's main goal was to save you and bring you to heaven when you die, is missing the main point. Scripture says that "we love because he first loved us", that is, our own love for others in the cause of Christ does not come from ourselves but from the source. So the more we learn about what Christ did for us, the deeper we go in our own personal salvation, the deeper love we will have for others and the better we will do God's bidding on earth.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Because they both assume a future salvation......when Today is the day of Salvation.

Oh. OK. I agree.
Our salvation is in the future...
something that is hoped for has not been received yet.
Romans 8:25

 

[RaymondG]

Oh. OK. I agree.
Our salvation is in the future...
something that is hoped for has not been received yet.
Romans 8:25

Yet this hope is not for an after death experience....for Jesus stated:

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

Therefore I exclaim:

"26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:"

So is it right to seek for an experience after dying.....when there is no repentance in the grave?

Not sure. But I think it best to seek until we find.

 

[Anthony2019]

"Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been perfected, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have laid hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, press on toward the goal to win the prize of God’s heavenly calling in Christ Jesus." (Phillipians 3 NIV)