Theologians accuse Pope Francis of heresy

[Davidnic]

But if the Pope leads others to error he can be corrected by the Bishops. That does not take away from primacy.

 

[Michie]

The office of pope deserves respect but he has sort of set his own table here. The laity and fellow clergy have the absolute right and duty to ask questions and get answers and clarity. Which have not been forthcoming. The pope does not have the freedom to teach beyond what is already established teaching.

 

[chevyontheriver]

It depends if any of the Bishops back fraternal correction

Pope Francis has talked a lot about the need for fraternal correction ... of others. He seems unwilling to even hear criticisms of himself.

 

[Davidnic]

That has been a problem all the way back to his days before and as a bishop in Argentina. He used to admit to this flaw and did in some of his biographical homilies and writings.

In many ways he is far more authoritarian than people wanted to paint Pope Benedict XVI

 

[Michie]

On charging the pope with heresy.

If you are going to charge anybody (especially the pope) with heresy, you need to prove your case, and this letter doesn't.

Continued below.
On Charging a Pope with Heresy

 

[Mark_Sam]

Frankly, at this point the best we can hope is another "cadaver synod" where his successor will set things straight and nullify what ought to be nullified. The pope is already ignoring these accusation so hard. Whether he's dead or alive, his response to these accusations will be the same - utter and complete ignoring.

 

[chevyontheriver]

On charging the pope with heresy.

If you are going to charge anybody (especially the pope) with heresy, you need to prove your case, and this letter doesn't.

Continued below.
On Charging a Pope with Heresy

I tend to really respect Jimmy Akin. On this one I have to read the whole letter first. Sorry Jimmy. No disrespect intended.

Something's gotta happen. Best would be for pope Francis to finally figure out the scandal he has caused, to clarify the odd things he has said, and to begin to govern like a faithful Catholic, and to promote people like archbishop Chaput rather than the sort of folks he has been promoting.

 

[Tutorman]

Fishwrap.

Yep as Fr. Z says

 

[Beloved2018]

But if the Pope leads others to error he can be corrected by the Bishops. That does not take away from primacy.

I disagree. It does take away. Take the matter of divorce for example, Peter has the power to bind and to loose. The use of those keys ( even in an extra-ordinary form) does not equate to a denial of the indisoluabilitiy of marriage.

 

[Beloved2018]

He's the Pope...if he's not Catholic....?

I tend to really respect Jimmy Akin. On this one I have to read the whole letter first. Sorry Jimmy. No disrespect intended.

Something's gotta happen. Best would be for pope Francis to finally figure out the scandal he has caused, to clarify the odd things he has said, and to begin to govern like a faithful Catholic, and to promote people like archbishop Chaput rather than the sort of folks he has been promoting.

 

[Beloved2018]

Then why did they vote him in?

That has been a problem all the way back to his days before and as a bishop in Argentina. He used to admit to this flaw and did in some of his biographical homilies and writings.

In many ways he is far more authoritarian than people wanted to paint Pope Benedict XVI

 

[Beloved2018]

They have a right to ask questions and to ask for clarification. But to whisper heresy....that's a whole other matter.

The office of pope deserves respect but he has sort of set his own table here. The laity and fellow clergy have the absolute right and duty to ask questions and get answers and clarity. Which have not been forthcoming. The pope does not have the freedom to teach beyond what is already established teaching.

 

[Michie]

Yes I posted on that topic from Jimmy Akin.

They have a right to ask questions and to ask for clarification. But to whisper heresy....that's a whole other matter.

 

[Beloved2018]

I'll take a look.

Yes I posted on that topic from Jimmy Akin.

 

[Michie]

Here you go.

On charging the pope with heresy.

If you are going to charge anybody (especially the pope) with heresy, you need to prove your case, and this letter doesn't.

Continued below.
On Charging a Pope with Heresy

 

[Beloved2018]

Thank you.
This is one of my chief concerns:
It’s gravely reckless and irresponsible to charge anyone with an ecclesiastical crime as serious as heresy if you can’t prove it, and it’s even worse to do so with regard to the pope, given the scandal, confusion, and risk of individual schism that it will create for the faithful.
How would an ecclesiastical trial even proceed since any council convened to settle such matters currently requires papal approval..but if he's the one on trial...?

Here you go.

 

[Beloved2018]

Why does he have to respond to anything? He's a Pastor, not a press-agent. Clarification for some of the things he's said would be nice but it would have been nice had JP II and Benedict clarified some things too. And I think it's defeatist to say, ' at this point the best we can hope for...' Pray for him! Be positive! God put Francis on the papal throne at this time--I don't feel we ought to be looking to the next pope. If we truly believe in God's promises concerning Peter, then that promise is true today (during Francis' reign) and next week and next year regardless of whose occupying the throne.

Frankly, at this point the best we can hope is another "cadaver synod" where his successor will set things straight and nullify what ought to be nullified. The pope is already ignoring these accusation so hard. Whether he's dead or alive, his response to these accusations will be the same - utter and complete ignoring.

 

[Beloved2018]

Then let's pray for him.
Heavenly Father,
Please guide your servant Francis as the underShepherd of Your Son's Church. Grace him with the gifts of profound humility, eloquent speech, the ability to listen and to be heard. Protect and guide him as You protected and guided Your Son. Holy Mary, wrap your mantle around him that he may be a most pleasing imitation of Jesus Christ for the world. In Christ's precious Name we pray, Amen!.

Pope Francis has talked a lot about the need for fraternal correction ... of others. He seems unwilling to even hear criticisms of himself.

 

[chevyontheriver]

He's the Pope...if he's not Catholic....?

Yes. But what he has said HAS caused scandal. He has NOT clarified his statements when asked to do so. And many of his appointments leave faithful people wondering what he is doing.

I'm not yet on the bandwagon to have him removed, if that is even possible. But I am praying that he be more like his predecessors and less like a Modernist. Also praying that the next pope be a John Paul III or a Benedict XVII sort of person.

 

[chevyontheriver]

They have a right to ask questions and to ask for clarification. But to whisper heresy....that's a whole other matter.

There are some canon laws which apply. Against those who would seek to have a council to discipline a pope. So I expect the authors of this letter know that and feel that things have gone far enough to risk even those penalties.