What exactly did Jesus Save us from?....

[redleghunter]

Jesus saved us from the law that God requires to be upheld. we can not uphold it and no man will ever be able to there is only one who has Jesus Christ and that victory he gives to those who ask him by faith. faith in what that he is who he says he is. it's that easy. all glory be to God and none to man.

Amen. So if one is not redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb, then does God’s wrath still abide on them?

 

[redleghunter]

Our sin which kept us apart and in the dark about our Creator. He restored the opportunity for all come back to the relationship we once had with Him until the fall. This was our original condition. This was taken away from us at the fall and with His Grace He gave it back to us. However, one must believe, repent and walk in the Spirit.
Blessings

Thank you. And if one is not in Christ does God’s wrath still abide on that person?

 

[redleghunter]

Amen.

2 Corinthians 5:21 - "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

1 John 2:2 - "And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world."

Propitiation means the appeasement and satisfactory action that is pleasing to God Almighty. Since God's justice and rigtheousness demands that God's justice be satisfied by an atonement for sin, that it cannot go without consequences, Jesus, the sinless Lamb of God, and Second Person of the Trinity, underwent the wrath of the Father and it pleased Him. See Isaiah 53 also.

God bless!

I’m getting goosebumps. Well answered in succinct fashion. Thank you brother!

 

[Soyeong]

Did you see the Scriptures I posted?

Yes sin is what condemns us. Which means God’s Wrath is still upon us.

I didn't disagree with the verses that you cited, but rather I pointed out that there are also past and present aspects of our salvation.

 

[redleghunter]

And Sin, Hell, Death, and the Grave...

Does He use His wrath to discipline...? And if so, and if we are or if we do become truly obedient, (and eventually become loving and faithful and faith-filled, ect), was that due to "us", or "Him"...?

God Bless!

No the Loving Father chastises His children.

 

[redleghunter]

I’m getting a good indication of who read the OP and who just dived in.

 

[redleghunter]

I didn't disagree with the verses that you cited, but rather I pointed out that there are also past and present aspects of our salvation.

Meaning what leads up to the Wrath?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Like Rip Van Winkle?

He eventually woke up didn't he?

 

[redleghunter]

In relating to humans, God is not limited in that way. I'm just saying asking people to understand "fear" can be complicated in a world that is all too aware of abusive husbands or alcoholic parents. The "fear of the Lord" being spoken of is more like looking at the Grand Canyon or Niagra Falls or a big Gothic cathedral and being seized by the power of the experience.

I see what you are saying. I think this quote from the OP is spot on:

As Anglican Bishop J.I. Packer is quoted:

“God’s wrath in the Bible is never the capricious, self-indulgent, irritable, morally ignoble thing that human anger so often is. It is, instead, a right and necessary reaction to objective moral evil” (Knowing God, 151).

 

[Albion]

Here is is the statement that prompts my questions: "Babies deserve wrath because of their sinful disposition toward God and because of the imputation of Adam's sin."

I guess it is me who is adding "because they were born," because Im unsure of what else to say they have done wrong...at their age.

Okay. All of that wording does make a difference.

Moving on, there is a remedy for Original Sin--baptism. But the fact is that none of us knows what the eternal standing is of every baby who dies before being baptized.

The Roman Catholic Church reasoned that there must be a place where they will be happy but not with the fulfillment that comes with being in the presence of God, and they called it Limbo. But that applies only to that church. Most other churches believe--and so do most Catholics nowadays--that God has mercy upon these little ones. However, that is only a guess.

 

[FireDragon76]

I see what you are saying. I think this quote from the OP is spot on:

As Anglican Bishop J.I. Packer is quoted:

“God’s wrath in the Bible is never the capricious, self-indulgent, irritable, morally ignoble thing that human anger so often is. It is, instead, a right and necessary reaction to objective moral evil” (Knowing God, 151).

I suppose that's more or less true but I think he's putting elements of that too much into Enlightenment categories (sin is bigger potentially than merely "objective moral evil").

I would say that God's wrath is not necessarily personal. That was actually a point raised in the BBC film, God on Trial, about a real trial that happened in Auschwitz among Jews there. The defense raised the point that perhaps they were merely victims of God's wrath. The opposition raised an objection to that, but the defense pointed out that God's wrath shouldn't be necessarily understood as something personal. God's wrath is against sin, and inasmuch as we are sinners, we are objects of wrath. But that's not to say that God sets out to hate actual persons. Innocent suffering after all is a mystery that lies at the heart of the Christian faith (and also in most forms of Judaism, too, as exemplified in the story of Job).

 

[FireDragon76]

Amen. So if one is not redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb, then does God’s wrath still abide on them?

God's wrath doesn't necessarily go away even after we are redeemed. We still aren't necessarily delivered from all the temporal penalties of sin. Even Christ endured God's wrath in exactly the same way. But what is different for the Christian is that they endure God's wrath with the gifts of faith, hope, and love.

Like Luther preached and taught, Satan tempts people by holding up death and sin in front of them and attempting to convince the believer that is the reality of their lives, that God is merely angry at them in a personal way (ie, hate) and cannot be trusted. Which is why it is necessary to believe in Christ and take hold of him through faith by hearing the Gospel and receiving the sacraments.

 

[Neogaia777]

God's wrath doesn't necessarily go away even after we are redeemed. We still aren't necessarily delivered from all the temporal penalties of sin. Even Christ endured God's wrath in exactly the same way. But what is different for the Christian is that they endure God's wrath with the gifts of faith, hope, and love.

Like Luther preached and taught, Satan tempts people by holding up death and sin in front of them and attempting to convince the believer that is the reality of their lives, that God is merely angry at them in a personal way (ie, hate) and cannot be trusted. Which is why it is necessary to believe in Christ and take hold of him through faith by hearing the Gospel and receiving the sacraments.

There might be a difference between God's "wrath" and God's "anger" or frustration, ect...

In the case of being angry or upset at or with you own child, like being a Christian, a good Father with those feelings will discipline and correct, and with a perfect Father will only make His children better and grow and develop and mature and grow up... But, His wrath is reserved for those "outside" that rejected Him as their Father basically or did not believe in Him, is reserved for those on the outside not His children, or otherwise His "bastard" children basically...

As and for those who are His children, we do not want to ever kindle his anger or frustration ect, especially on purpose, but we inevitably do sometimes, from time to time at the very least, and it's usually over Sin, which if you do not listen could cause Him to discipline you by or through it or something, grow you, ect, but both He and it are not going to kill you, not like in the cases where ones who would incur His wrath, the ones on the outside, ect...

God Bless!

 

[Not David]

Imaging worshipping a God that you need to be saved from.

 

[Neogaia777]

Imaging worshipping a God that you need to be saved from.

I'd say to remind Him about Jesus if you have to, all He is and does and, and was and would be, both back then and today, and tomorrow and into the future, and would become, ect, "all" He did for us, ect, if you have to...

It's finished, forgiveness is done and finished and was complete and completed in and by Him (Jesus) ect... Wrath, "for the believer" is done... Discipline or training yes, but not "wrath" for the believer in Jesus...

But, be respectful and civil and know your place kind of thing though...

God Bless!

 

[timewerx]

Jesus also saves us from the shackes of lies by guiding us to the Truth.

Do not be partakers of evil but expose it.

The truth will set you free.

 

[mark kennedy]

In relating to humans, God is not limited in that way. I'm just saying asking people to understand "fear" can be complicated in a world that is all too aware of abusive husbands or alcoholic parents. The "fear of the Lord" being spoken of is more like looking at the Grand Canyon or Niagra Falls or a big Gothic cathedral and being seized by the power of the experience.

That's not fear, when God descended on Sinai, the mountain was on fire and even Moses was shaking with fear. That is one of those hermeneutic principles that run throughout Scripture. Paul admonishes us to submit outselves to one another in the fear of the Lord (Eph. 5:21). Even as believers we are sinners in the hands of an angry God. Indeed his mercies are new every morning but we need to appreciate the mercy of God in Christ by realizing the punishment we so richly deserve apart from it.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[JacksBratt]

A baby that God has sovereignly chosen for salvation.

And the others?

These innocent humans with eternal souls, that have done nothing of their own control and are not even aware of anything other than warm, cold, hunger, pain and touch? These so called "non elect" will be damned... with no conscious knowledge as to why or what they have done? These innocent souls that can't even understand the concept of control of their bladder, let alone faith in their creator, right and wrong.... They will be damned?

 

[JacksBratt]

Sin, Death, and the Devil.

I don't believe we are ever saved from the Devil... He, and his minions are constantly tempting us and deceiving us in this life.....In Hell... a little know fact here.... He is not the warden... he is an inmate..

 

[Gods not mad]

Amen. So if one is not redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb, then does God’s wrath still abide on them?

no Gods wrath does not abide on the unredeemed at this point in time. Jesus starts his ministry in the temple in (luke 4:14) he is given the scroll of isaiah and reads from (isaiah 61:1-2) but stops reading mid way through (isaiah 61:2) closes the book and hands it back. what did he choose not to read. the words and the day of vengeance of our God. Jesus then went on to declare himself a prophet and gave examples of non jews being healed while jews trusting in who they are by birth not receiving from God. this whole thing angered the pharisees and they tried to push him over the cliff. Jesus started his ministry in grace and the teachers of law did not like it. grace walked past the law and the law could not touch the grace of God.