What exactly did Jesus Save us from?....

redleghunter

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Answer? The wrath of God.

The OP is a bit long but establishes the point we are saved from the wrath of God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14: NASB

14Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand. 15And another angel came out of the temple, crying out with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16Then He who sat on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped.

17And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, and he also had a sharp sickle. 18Then another angel, the one who has power over fire, came out from the altar; and he called with a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Put in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, because her grapes are ripe.” 19So the angel swung his sickle to the earth and gathered the clusters from the vine of the earth, and threw them into the great wine press of the wrath of God. 20And the wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood came out from the wine press, up to the horses’ bridles, for a distance of two hundred miles.

The wrath of God is mentioned in the NT as the justice of God meted out to the unrepentant wicked.

In our post-modern society mentioning a wrathful God evokes thoughts of an angry deity who is a monster to mete out punishment taking pleasure in the afflictions of His own creation. But is this the Biblical portrayal of a Just and Loving God who is Righteous and will not let unrighteousness go unpunished?

First let's dispel this "monster God" of post-modernism.

The wrath of God is not a capricious, impulsive or arbitrary outburst of anger as some try to promote and thus God is not wrathful.

The wrath of God is a settled determined response of a Holy God against sin.

As Anglican Bishop J.I. Packer is quoted:

“God’s wrath in the Bible is never the capricious, self-indulgent, irritable, morally ignoble thing that human anger so often is. It is, instead, a right and necessary reaction to objective moral evil” (Knowing God, 151).

Which Packer is referring to the Apostle Paul to the Romans:

Romans 2: NASB

1Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. 3But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11For there is no partiality with God.

Therefore, God's wrath is just.

As sinners needing Christ as Lord and Savior, God's wrath is to be feared. Feared because all are sinners (Romans 3:23), that we are separated from God needing to be at peace with Him (Romans 5:1) and God promises eternal punishment for those not in Christ (Matthew 25:46).

Therefore, we are to fear God's wrath.

The wrath of God is also consistent in both the OT and NT Scriptures. Some try to separate a God of the OT and a God of the NT. This was the argument put forth by Marcion and his views Marcionism were rejected by the early Church. However, when we examine the Scriptures we see consistency:

Jeremiah 30: NASB
23 Behold, the tempest of the LORD!
Wrath has gone forth,
A sweeping tempest;
It will burst on the head of the wicked.


24The fierce anger of the LORD will not turn back
Until He has performed and until He has accomplished
The intent of His heart;
In the latter days you will understand this.

Nahum 1: NASB
2A jealous and avenging God is the LORD;
The LORD is avenging and wrathful.
The LORD takes vengeance on His adversaries,
And He reserves wrath for His enemies.


3The LORD is slow to anger and great in power,
And the LORD will by no means leave the guilty unpunished.
In whirlwind and storm is His way,
And clouds are the dust beneath His feet.

Romans 1: NASB
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Revelation 19: NASB
15From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Therefore, God's wrath is consistent in the OT and NT.

As we can see laid out above is the Biblical truth on the wrath of God and the consequences. In the next thread we will speak of how "all have sinned" was remedied by God before the foundations of the earth. Concluding with the spoiler:

Romans 5: NASB
6For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
 

Tree of Life

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Do you believe that the baby justly deserve wrath just because he was born?

No! It's not a sin to be born. Babies deserve wrath because of their sinful disposition toward God and because of the imputation of Adam's sin.
 
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bekkilyn

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RaymondG

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No! It's not a sin to be born. Babies deserve wrath because of their sinful disposition toward God and because of the imputation of Adam's sin.
You just stated the same thing in a different way. If a child is not born, he is safe from Gods wrath......but when he is born(or conceived maybe?), he has sin imputed on it and therefore deserve God's wrath.....according to you.

Why, then, are we so willing to create subjects of God's wrath?
 
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Tree of Life

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You just stated the same thing in a different way. If a child is not born, he is safe from Gods wrath......but when he is born(or conceived maybe?), he has sin imputed on it and therefore deserve God's wrath.....according to you.

Why, then, are we so willing to create subjects of God's wrath?

In the good hopes that God would mercifully save them. We know he has promised to save many!
 
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RaymondG

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Jesus came to save us out of a world of sin....... Yet most decide to continue in it until their body dies....

He tells us today is the day of salvation.....We say, we will be saved(heaven) in the future.
He tells us the He conquered death and hell......we say we all must die.
He says he that liveth and believeth in me shall never die......we say that's impossible and desire, instead to be raised from a grave.

but such is life
 
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RaymondG

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In the good hopes that God would mercifully save them. We know he has promised to save many!
He stated that few will find the path to life. Why risk the soul of another on good hope? hell seems like a place full of bad dudes.......why bring souls into the world if you believe they start out IN the fire?
And why do you believe that God views children this way?
 
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bekkilyn

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He stated that few will find the path to life. Why risk the soul of another on good hope? hell seems like a place full of bad dudes.......why bring souls into the world if you believe they start out IN the fire?
And why do you believe that God views children this way?

You know, this opens up a whole new meaning to what Paul said when he wished everyone would be as he was, i.e. celibate. :)
 
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RaymondG

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You know, this opens up a whole new meaning to what Paul said when he wished everyone would be as he was, i.e. celibate. :)
This would be the most loving path if we believe that God has wrath planned for every child we bring into the world......with their only chance being: to be born in the right country to the right parents that go the the right church with the correct doctrine and then remain there the rest of their lives.

If I didnt already have children I'd have to seriously consider celibacy..........but since I do not plan to create anymore objects of God's wrath.....and did so before only in ignorance.....I think I'll just continue my current path......
 
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timothyu

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Why was it necessary for Jesus to die on a cross in order to save us from ourselves?
We put Him there, yet God used our evil nature to give us resurrection and a shot at the Kingdom. We did our thing to Jesus, He simply reversed it.
 
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timothyu

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Are we able to save ourselves?
To a degree yes. We can do the will of the Father and repent/change from the ways of man. But that does not create the Kingdom or resurrection. That was God's thing. He saved us with grace enough to give us those two things. It's up to us to comply.
 
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timothyu

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In the good hopes that God would mercifully save them. We know he has promised to save many!
He did by giving us the same choice since the Garden. His will or our own. Nothing has changed regarding that fact. He has just expanded on it by showing the separation of wills is no longer just sin, but has created the Kingdom as an alternative to the selfish world of man. If we couldn't understand the fine print before we have no excuse now. Two opposing worlds. Choose which is the better and live accordingly.
 
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