The Prophetic Word

[keras]

Bible prophecy is a very controversial subject and not easy to understand.
1 Corinthians 14:22b says that prophecy is intended to inform Christian believers.

But the many and varied discussions, theories and doctrines point up the disturbing fact of how we Christians often have opposing views of what God has planned for our future.
There is only one sequence, one Plan that will actually unfold and that could be quite soon. So one view is right and all the rest are wrong.
Basically; we can say that the right way, is the one that conforms to scripture. But as Isaiah 28:13 says about prophecy: Here a little, there a little..... making it difficult to work out a correct sequence.

Revelation does give us that in the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls, then the glorious Return of Jesus and after He has reigned for a 1000 years comes the final Judgement, then Eternity.
Revelation also is the only Book that warns us to not mess around with it. Revelation 22:18-19

What is described in the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, are things that can and will be literally fulfilled. [Allowing for the few metaphorical descriptions; like locusts in Rev 9:7]
So; with the Seals, we are told that when Jesus ascended to heaven, He was found worthy to open the Seals and He commenced to do so. Revelation 6:1
It should be clear to all that the first five Seals are open. We HAVE had wars, famines, plagues and economic disasters aplenty and the proof is the Fifth Seal, where the souls of all the Christian martyrs since Stephen are kept under the heavenly Altar. Revelation 6:9-10

Therefore, the next prophesied event must be the Sixth Seal. Revelation 6:12-17

We have been given plenty of warning and details about this sudden and shocking Day that the Lord will instigate. It will change the world and interestingly, Isaiah 29:23-24 says; Then the Lord's children, the work of His hands, [who are born again Christians] will praise Him for their protection and only then, will we all fully understand His plans and purposes.
Ref: logostelos.info

 

[Mark Quayle]

Bible prophecy is a very controversial subject and not easy to understand.
1 Corinthians 14:22b says that prophecy is intended to inform Christian believers.

But the many and varied discussions, theories and doctrines point up the disturbing fact of how we Christians often have opposing views of what God has planned for our future.
There is only one sequence, one Plan that will actually unfold and that could be quite soon. So one view is right and all the rest are wrong.
Basically; we can say that the right way, is the one that conforms to scripture. But as Isaiah 28:13 says about prophecy: Here a little, there a little..... making it difficult to work out a correct sequence.

Revelation does give us that in the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls, then the glorious Return of Jesus and after He has reigned for a 1000 years comes the final Judgement, then Eternity.
Revelation also is the only Book that warns us to not mess around with it. Revelation 22:18-19

What is described in the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, are things that can and will be literally fulfilled. [Allowing for the few metaphorical descriptions; like locusts in Rev 9:7]
So; with the Seals, we are told that when Jesus ascended to heaven, He was found worthy to open the Seals and He commenced to do so. Revelation 6:1
It should be clear to all that the first five Seals are open. We HAVE had wars, famines, plagues and economic disasters aplenty and the proof is the Fifth Seal, where the souls of all the Christian martyrs since Stephen are kept under the heavenly Altar. Revelation 6:9-10

Therefore, the next prophesied event must be the Sixth Seal. Revelation 6:12-17

We have been given plenty of warning and details about this sudden and shocking Day that the Lord will instigate. It will change the world and interestingly, Isaiah 29:23-24 says; Then the Lord's children, the work of His hands, [who are born again Christians] will praise Him for their protection and only then, will we all fully understand His plans and purposes.
Ref: logostelos.info

Sadly, I suppose, Isaiah 10 is among those passages that give me the most satisfaction, that God doesn't accept phoney attempts to break even with him, as though we can do enough to get by. In fact, it seems, like with those whom he "spews out of his mouth for being lukewarm" God hates these worse than those who are at least honest about hating him.

"The understanding of this message will bring sheer terror" to those who thought they were safe in their attendance to precepts and tenets. Maybe it is wrong of me --I don't know --(because I too will have to give account), but there is a kind of joy, and huge satisfaction at seeing that God's name will be more than vindicated, by the plain sight of who he is that all this time humanity has been trying to put on trial, not realizing that they are the ones on trial.

 

[lambofgod43985889]

all this time humanity has been trying to put on trial, not realizing that they are the ones on trial.

people know that they suffer, they live everyday with a heavy burden

 

[keras]

people know that they suffer, they live everyday with a heavy burden

Our lives are; to God, all about testing and the choices we make.
He has set up our world in a very clever way, so we all can choose our path in life. Basically; those who decide to ignore the plain facts of Creation and live the hedonistic lifestyle, will be discarded at the final Judgment, but those who do acknowledge God and keep His Commandments, will be given Eternal life. Revelation 20:11-15, Revelation 21:1-7

There are and always have been, some who are tested unto death. Others, like us Western Christians, generally do not face great difficulties in maintaining our faith, but be assured God will judge everyone according each ones situation and many who think they have led a 'good' life, will be shocked to have Jesus say to them: I do not know you.

 

[Douggg]

But the many and varied discussions, theories and doctrines point up the disturbing fact of how we Christians often have opposing views of what God has planned for our future.
There is only one sequence, one Plan that will actually unfold and that could be quite soon. So one view is right and all the rest are wrong.

I agree with the above.

 

[Douggg]

It should be clear to all that the first five Seals are open. We HAVE had wars, famines, plagues and economic disasters aplenty and the proof is the Fifth Seal, where the souls of all the Christian martyrs since Stephen are kept under the heavenly Altar. Revelation 6:9-10

There have been wars, plagues, poverty, before Jesus came.

The wars, plagues, poverty in the seals are particular to be after the rider on the white horse comes - which that rider is still future.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

people know that they suffer, they live everyday with a heavy burden

Yes. Jesus warned His followers about that.
Note our dear brother Paul in 2 Corin......:

Luke 21:12
“But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons.
You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake.

2 Corinthians 11
22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they descendants of Abraham? So am I. 23 Are they servants of Christ? I am speaking like I am out of my mind, but I am so much more:
in harder labor, in more imprisonments,
in worse beatings, in frequent danger of death.
By Judeans five times forty minus one. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned,
three times I was shipwrecked. I spent a night and a day in the open sea.
In my frequent journeys, I have been in dangers of rivers and to dangers of bandits, in dangers from fellow race, from the Gentiles, in city and in wilderness, in danger on the sea
and to dangers in false brothers,
in labor and toil and often without sleep,
in hunger and thirst,and often without food, in cold and exposure.
=============================
And of course there is this passage in Revelation. Any idea if the10 days are literally 10 days?

Revelation 2:10
No yet one thou be fearing! which-things thou are being about to be suffering.
Behold! the Devil is being about to be casting ye into a prison<5438>, that ye may be being tried.
And ye shall be having Tribulation<2347> of ten days,
Be thou becoming! faithfull until death! and I shall be giving to thee the crown of the life.

 

[keras]

There have been wars, plagues, poverty, before Jesus came.

The wars, plagues, poverty in the seals are particular to be after the rider on the white horse comes - which that rider is still future.

Check out Zechariah 1:8-11 and Zechariah 6:1-8.
Those 'horsemen' have been around since Adam. But it does seem they were given a 'gee-up' from the first century, judging from the really terrible wars, famines, plagues and economic disasters that the world has experienced. As an example, google 'Mongol invasion' and see how they virtually depopulated the entire area right up to Europe. Then 'Black Death' and see how Europe was also depopulated.

I agree with the above.

Then give up your 'anytime rapture' nonsense.
You say you want to put the prophesies into a start to finish scenario. Trying to fit in a 'rapture' removal, makes that objective impossible.

 

[keras]

Prophets and shepherds of the flock Isaiah 4:16

Jeremiah 23:1-2 Woe betide those shepherds who let My flock be scattered and lost. You have not watched over them, but I am watching you to punish you for your misdeeds.
James 3:1, Ezekiel 34:7-10, Jeremiah 16:17, Jeremiah 10:21

Jeremiah 23:3-4 I, Myself will gather the remnant of My sheep from all the lands to which I have dispersed them. I shall bring them back to their own Land, where they will be fruitful and increase. I will appoint shepherds, who will tend them and they will live in peace and security.
Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:24-26

This is the second Exodus, the gathering and resettling of those of His Christian people who are protected during this forthcoming fire judgement. The Lord will raise up righteous leaders for them. The Land will be fruitful and He will protect them from enemies. Ezekiel 36:8, Ezekiel 38:8b-9, Zechariah 10:8-10

Jeremiah 23:5-6 The days are coming when a Righteous Branch will come from David’s line, a wise King, who will maintain justice. Judah and Israel will be kept safe and will live undisturbed in the Land.
The ‘days are coming’, verses 5-6 refer to a later period, the Millennium reign of Jesus.

Jeremiah 23:7-8 Therefore, the time is coming when people will no longer praise the Lord for bringing His people out of Egypt, but praise Him for gathering the descendants of the Israelites back from all the lands where He had dispersed them. They will again live on their own soil.
‘Therefore the time is coming’ means – therefore, before the Millennium the Lord will instigate the return of His people back into their inheritance. Ezekiel 20:34

Jeremiah 23:9-15 Of the prophets: I am weak because of the Lord’s Holy Words. For now, the Land is full of godless people, prophet and priest alike are godless and I see their evil deeds. I see things most horrible, adulterers and hypocrites, to Me all the inhabitants of Jerusalem are like Sodom and Gomorrah. Therefore, I shall bring disaster upon them on the Day of Reckoning. Ezekiel 22:26-28, Jeremiah 14:14-16, Jeremiah 10:13-14

Jeremiah 23:16-17 Do not listen to what the so called prophets say, those who buoy you up with false hopes and give voice to their own fancies. It is not the Lord’s Words that they speak. They say to all who follow their false teachings: prosperity will be yours and no harm will befall you.
Prosperity theology and rapture theories are the fancies and mistaken beliefs of many Christians today. Isaiah 50:10-11, Ezekiel 13:1-16, Jer.6:13-15

Jeremiah 23:18 For which of them have stood in the counsel of the Lord and received His Word and taken heed of it, with obedience?
Psalms 74:9 A serious indictment against those end time preachers, scholars and authors, who fail to properly discern and understand the prophetic Word, yet they promulgate and make money from their own theories, ideas and incorrect teachings. Psalms 50:16-19, Isaiah 30:10, Micah 3:5-7



Jeremiah 23:19 See what a scorching wind goes out from the Lord, a furious whirlwind, that whirls around the heads of the wicked.
A ‘scorching wind, a furious whirlwind’, is another description that fits a coronal mass ejection, the fire judgement that the Lord will use on His Day of vengeance and wrath. Psalms 18:7-18, Malachi 4:1

Jeremiah 23:20 The Lord’s anger will not be turned aside until He has fully accomplished His purposes. In days to come, you will truly understand.
Hosea 14:9, 2 Peter 1:19

Jeremiah 23:21-22 I did not send these prophets, yet they go out with a message that is false. If only they proclaim My true message to My people and turn them from their evil ways!

Jeremiah 23:23-24 Am I a God near at hand only – do I not fill heaven and earth? Can anyone hide in some secret place and I not see them? Amos 9:1

Jeremiah 23:25-40…An indictment upon false teachers and prophets.
Jeremiah 5:30-31, James 3:1

Deuteronomy 32:28-29 You are a people devoid of understanding. If only you had the wisdom to discern what your end will be!
Ref: REB some verses abridged.

 

[iamlamad]

There have been wars, plagues, poverty, before Jesus came.

The wars, plagues, poverty in the seals are particular to be after the rider on the white horse comes - which that rider is still future.

Keras has it right: you must pull the first seal out of its scriptural context to make it future. It is, and always will be, in the context of chapters 4 & 5. God back and study them again. Notice that John saw the very moment Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down. Will you then imagine this will happen again in the future?

No, it was a one time event, that happened around 32 AD.

 

[Douggg]

Keras has it right: you must pull the first seal out of its scriptural context to make it future. It is, and always will be, in the context of chapters 4 & 5. God back and study them again. Notice that John saw the very moment Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down. Will you then imagine this will happen again in the future?

No, it was a one time event, that happened around 32 AD.

I think you missed the point of what Jesus meant about sending the Holy Spirit, leaving out a crucial part of what he said - to abide in you. John 14:16-17.

We each should pray to Jesus every day, thanking Him, for coming into this world to save me (you).

 

[iamlamad]

I think you missed the point of what Jesus meant about sending the Holy Spirit, leaving out a crucial part of what he said - to abide in you. John 14:16-17.

We all should know that when one is born again, the Holy Spirit comes to abide in our human spirit. We were talking about the timing of the first seal. John wrote it - what we need to do is understand what He wrote. In Chapter 5 John saw in vision form the moment Jesus entered the throne room upon ascending back to heaven, and at that moment wrote that the Holy Spirit was sent down. This was to establish the TIMING of the first seals. It is the context of the first seal.

The information in chapters 4 & 5 are progressive: Jesus on earth or under the earth, Jesus NOT found worthy to take the book and open the seals because He had not yet risen from the dead. Then Jesus FOUND worthy, showing us He had just risen from the dead, and finally Jesus entering the throne room of heaven, having just ascended. All this is to show us timing. Sad: most people ignore John's timing and make up their own.

 

[Lost4words]

Revelation is, as i have said before, the most misinterpreted book in the Bible. There are more experts on it than there are letters in the whole Bible!

 

[Douggg]

We all should know that when one is born again, the Holy Spirit comes to abide in our human spirit.

I would refine that a little bit, to abide in our soul - forever.

The information in chapters 4 & 5 are progressive: Jesus on earth or under the earth, Jesus NOT found worthy to take the book and open the seals because He had not yet risen from the dead. Then Jesus FOUND worthy, showing us He had just risen from the dead, and finally Jesus entering the throne room of heaven, having just ascended. All this is to show us timing. Sad: most people ignore John's timing and make up their own.

John could not have been called up to heaven except by Jesus being there.

How did the 24 elders get to be present at the throne in heaven, if Jesus did not arrive there before them?

It doesn't say directly but I think Jesus appeared to John and them, to open the seals by coming out from the blinding glory of God's throne.

 

[Douggg]

Revelation is, as i have said before, the most misinterpreted book in the Bible. There are more experts on it than there are letters in the whole Bible!

Broad is the path and narrow is the way. Where would we be without Revelation?

 

[Lost4words]

Broad is the path and narrow is the way. Where would we be without Revelation?

Are we even supposed to have Revelation? If so, it has been massively misinterpreted

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Revelation is, as i have said before, the most misinterpreted book in the Bible. There are more experts on it than there are letters in the whole Bible!

Broad is the path and narrow is the way. Where would we be without Revelation?

Are we even supposed to have Revelation? If so, it has been massively misinterpreted

Yes, so man will be without excuse.
Second question is that there is not one answer.

The non-Christian Jews of today would love that NT book, as it is mainly concerning them and their OT Scriptures..........

Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament

I find this person's view concerning the "allusions" found in the book of Revelation that are found in the Old Testament/Covenant rather fascinating.
Would anyone like to put down verses from Revelation and the verses from the OT/OC that are "alluded" to? I think that would be enjoyable and edifying. Thanks

THE SYMBOLISM IN BOOK OF REVELATION

One man studied and found 348 allusions (not illusions, Light) in Revelation from the Old Testament. You see the similarity in wording and the context mirrored in Revelation and the particular Old Testament story, and immediately can recognize the reference source!
That's IF you know the bible well enough to even notice that.

95 of the 348 plain references used in Revelation as taken from the Old Testament are repeated in Revelation.
That makes about 250 Old Testament passages are cited. How many chapters are in Revelation? 22. That makes about TEN OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCES FOR EVERY CHAPTER!
==================================================
Here are some of the ones I have come up with. Please feel free to add or comment on them.

Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Books in Daniel Daniel 7:9 and 11:10.
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Cried and joy Temple/City: Ezra 3:12,13 and Reve 18:18, 19:4
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Ear to hear: Isaiah 6:9,10 and Matt 13:15, Reve 2,3,13
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Holy Holy Holy Isaiah 6:6 and Revelation 4:8
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Jericho, Priest and Trumpets: Joshua 6:4, Hebrews 11:30, Matt 24:31, Reve 8:6
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Lift hands to heaven and swore..: Daniel 2:7 and Reve 10:5
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Light Revelation to Israel and Nations: Isaiah 9:2, Luke 2:32, Reve 1:1
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Moses and Elijah, fire falling, as is also seen in Revelation.
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Moses and Elijah
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Mountain of fire cast into Sea
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Pierced: Zech 12:10 and Reve 1:7
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Sacrifice/Supper of God: Ezek 39:17 and Reve 19:17
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Sanctuary/Tabernacle filled with smoke
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Silence/Hush: Zech 1:7, 2:13 and Reve 8:1
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Sodom and Egypt: Matt 2:15, Reve 11:8
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Song of Moses: Exodus 15:1 and Revelation 15:3
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Spirit lifting, taking Ezekiel and John
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Stars 7
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Tree of Life and Garden: Genesis 3:24 and Reve 2:7
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Whip.........Nahum 3:2, John 2:15,
=============================================
Kingdom Bible Studies Table of Contents

Kindgdom Bible Studies Revelation Series Part 1

FROM THE CANDLESTICK TO THE THRONE
Part 1

The mark of the beast. Armageddon. The Four Horsemen. The false prophet. Babylon the great. Falling stars, stinging locusts, and giant hailstones. The seven last plagues. The bottomless pit. The lake of fire. These images of terror and catastrophe from the book of Revelation have greatly influenced the thinking of millions of Christians through the ages. Even the secular press uses images such as "Armageddon" and "four horsemen of the Apocalypse" to describe calamities in our world.

Despite 1900 years of fascination with the book of Revelation, John’s letter to the seven Churches of Asia continues to be misunderstood. And badly misinterpreted!

One misconception shared by some is that the Revelation has nothing of importance to say to us. It’s considered to be merely a bizarre piece of first-century writing with no relevance for today.
Another wrong idea is that the Revelation is a code book describing a specific outline of history written in advance. Countless interpreters have tried to "decode" the book from a historical perspective to find all the major world events of the past 1900 years.

Others interpret it more literally as a handbook for predicting the cataclysmic events that will bring the final wrath of God and the end of the world.
The claims of Christian groups from the early church to the present — that the Revelation pinpoints the events, personalities, and time periods of "the end" — have all failed.

This should be a caution to believers for using the book of Revelation as a predictive handbook. Other people’s interpretation of the book of Revelation is based on the "Pan Theory" — it’s all going to pan out in the end! Beloved brethren, the fact is, it’s not panning out the way the end-time prognosticators are projecting!

Through the years I have ministered the Word in Bible studies, seminars, and church services of various types.
When there has been a question and answer session, or when opportunity was granted for people to request teaching along a particular line, the most often requested subject has been — THE BOOK OF REVELATION!

I have met people who were babes in Christ, carnal Christians whose lives were a mess, they had incredible problems and needs, including deliverance, and instead of prayer or counsel or messages that would help them overcome and grow up in Christ, they wanted me to teach them the book of Revelation! "Yeah, brother, that’s for me, lay it on me, I want the book of Revelation!
==============================

Broad is the path and narrow is the way. Where would we be without Revelation?

 

[Douggg]

Are we even supposed to have Revelation? If so, it has been massively misinterpreted

Yes, so man will be without excuse.

Second question is that there is not one answer.

 

[keras]

Revelation, the Book dictated to John by Jesus, does give a proper sequence of the end times events. With some asides of more details.
We are given an overview from God's perspective of 7 types of Church's. Note that each one has some Overcomers in them. The true, faithful people of God, His Israelites by faith. Proved by Galatians 3:26-29 & 6:14-16
Jesus is the Seed, the real Israel and we; His Christian followers are the inheritors of all the promises of God to Israel. Romans 8:16-18

Jesus opens the Seals, 1 to 5 and we have experienced all the wars, famines and plagues possible, without wiping out humankind completely. The 5th Seal proves it is open, by the souls of all the martyrs since Stephen, kept under the heavenly Altar.
But as the cosmic events described in the Sixth Seal, have not occurred yet, then this will be the next prophesied event. Proved by how Jesus stopped His quote of Isaiah 61, in the second verse, before:.... and a day of the vengeance of our Lord.

This world changing disaster, triggered by an attack onto Israel by the Islamic peoples, will set the stage for all that must happen before Jesus Returns.
All as described in Revelation and throughout the Bible, leading up to the 1000 year reign of King Jesus and then the final Judgement of everyone and then comes Eternity.
Those found worthy will receive immortality, but the outcome for those whose names are not found in the Book of Life; is annihilation.

 

[Lost4words]

Revelation, the Book dictated to John by Jesus, does give a proper sequence of the end times events. With some asides of more details.
We are given an overview from God's perspective of 7 types of Church's. Note that each one has some Overcomers in them. The true, faithful people of God, His Israelites by faith. Proved by Galatians 3:26-29 & 6:14-16
Jesus is the Seed, the real Israel and we; His Christian followers are the inheritors of all the promises of God to Israel. Romans 8:16-18

Jesus opens the Seals, 1 to 5 and we have experienced all the wars, famines and plagues possible, without wiping out humankind completely. The 5th Seal proves it is open, by the souls of all the martyrs since Stephen, kept under the heavenly Altar.
But as the cosmic events described in the Sixth Seal, have not occurred yet, then this will be the next prophesied event. Proved by how Jesus stopped His quote of Isaiah 61, in the second verse, before:.... and a day of the vengeance of our Lord.

This world changing disaster, triggered by an attack onto Israel by the Islamic peoples, will set the stage for all that must happen before Jesus Returns.
All as described in Revelation and throughout the Bible, leading up to the 1000 year reign of King Jesus and then the final Judgement of everyone and then comes Eternity.
Those found worthy will receive immortality, but the outcome for those whose names are not found in the Book of Life; is annihilation.

Pure fantasy my friend.