"Grace alone " is a big excuse for lazy Christians

[BBAS 64]

Yes, that is the whole purpose of grace for it is cleansed that shall be saved. Grace gives one time to make things right with God and live according to his will.

Good Day, This isfreedom

Grace indeed is given (gifted) to us by God (one time) for a purpose, and it is always effective and completes that good intention for which it was given. God can not fail to bring about all his purposes with his ordained means.

In Him,

Bill

 

[Kenny'sID]

My way of interceding is that if I see that something is amiss with the person, I will pray for them in secret and make myself available to the Lord if He decides I am the one to speak to them about it. If the Lord doesn't give me that opportunity, I keep away, because I am not called to be a self-appointed "guide to the blind."

I'm always on call, and have also made myself available, but apparently, when I do it, I'm being a self appointed guide. So, all I can figure is, you feel God calls you, but can't possibly be calling me, very telling. As far as being self appointed, I think Jesus has appointed us all to see that the truth is gets out there, but if you choose to try to make me feel guilty about doing that with your comments, that's up to you...also very telling.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The primary problem with the misunderstanding by all camps on scriptures like this is that they do not have a clue what Eternal Life means and is. When you learn that, then you will understand.

Please take no offense, but this is ever the increasing mystery phrases put out by those who believe as you do. Instead of explaining verses like these, I am given pat answers as if I have to strive to by lucky to know what you are actually talking about. Please stop beating around the bush, my friend. Please tell it to me straight. Explain it to me. For what is the point of even having a discussion here if you are not going to enlighten us on what God's Word says?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So Salvation is then predicated upon a persons works?

No. Salvation is not by Works ALONE (without God's grace). Salvation is initially and ultimately by God's grace, but after we are saved by God's grace through believing in Christ's death and resurrection and seeking the Lord's forgiveness, works of faith (that follow) do play a part in the salvation process. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we are chosen (not the kind of chosen you are thinking) to salvation through two things:

(a) Belief of the Truth (i.e. Jesus is the Truth - John 14:6).
(b) Sanctification of the Spirit (i.e. Holy living by the Spirit).

In other words, the equation of salvation is this:

Grace by faith + Works of Faith = Salvation.

Paul was arguing against "Works Alone Salvationism" and other times he was arguing against going back to the Old Law (the 613 laws of Moses contractually speaking, kind of like a contract in buying a house). Paul was arguing against Circumcision Salvationism. For there were certain Jews were trying to deceive Christians into thinking they needed to FIRST be circumcised in order to be initially saved (See Acts of the Apostles 15, and Galatians 5:1-4). But Paul is saying that circumcision is not the basis for your salvation. Jesus is the basis for our salvation. We receive Jesus (who is the gift or who is God's grace) as the basis or foundation for our faith. Then after that point, we do works of responsibility in owning that gift.

For if you receive a free gift such as a car, that does not mean you can run red lights, drive drunk, and hit pedestrians. You would not have your gift for very long if you did that.

The point here is that you are going to do works regardless. Are your works going to be good for the Lord or are they going to be evil? That's the question. Verses like Matthew 7:23 does not give me the impression that we can sin and still be saved. Jesus said to certain believers to depart from Him because they worked iniquity or lawlessness.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So Salvation is then predicated upon a persons works?

If "works of faith" (not works of the Law of Moses as a whole) play no part in the salvation process whatsoever after we are saved by God's grace (first), then that means believers can be axe murdering rapists and still enter into the glory of Heaven. Surely this is not what you believe, is it? For even if you say that a believer is regenerated and changed and they are forced to live righteously by God, they are still meeting the requirement of works. For there are many sins that can condemn a person in the New Testament. Loving God and loving your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28). Not helping the poor in this life means one will be cast into everlasting fire (Matthew 25:31-46). Looking upon a woman in lust can lead a person's whole body to be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-20). Hating one's brother means no eternal life abides within them (1 John 3:15); And the list goes on and on.

Some of things take effort to work at doing. We are not forced against our will to do any of these things. We endure, because God tells us to endure (James 1:12) (Matthew 24:13). We keep ourselves in the love of God because the Bible tells us to keep ourselves in the love of God (Jude 1:21).

 

[blackribbon]

I observed that many Christians are very lazy nowadays.

They prefer doing nothing for Jesus and said that "Grace alone " "we are not saved by Work ".

Then everyone is in idol mode to wait to go to Heaven.

Laziness is a big sin.

So is judgement ... that is reserved for Jesus. We are to mind our own lives and serve. If you are doing that, you don't have time to look around and make a judgement about how others are serving.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So is judgement ... that is reserved for Jesus. We are to mind our own lives and serve. If you are doing that, you don't have time to look around and make a judgement about how others are serving.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 says Scripture is profitable for doctrine, correction, reproof, etc.

Anyways, Johnny's original post is about a judgment on the very core of what salvation actually is, and it is not just an empty accusation to rile up Christians. His judgment is against a wrong way of teaching on salvation. For is salvation by a Belief Alone ("Grace Alone" with no visible fruit type belief, i.e. laziness), or is salvation: "God's grace + Works of Faith"?

I choose to believe the Bible on this matter; And the Scriptures say that God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).

 

[Calvin_1985]

Please take no offense, but this is ever the increasing mystery phrases put out by those who believe as you do. Instead of explaining verses like these, I am given pat answers as if I have to strive to by lucky to know what you are actually talking about. Please stop beating around the bush, my friend. Please tell it to me straight. Explain it to me. For what is the point of even having a discussion here if you are not going to enlighten us on what God's Word says?

If you want to know what I am saying, then Eat of the Flesh of Jesus and drink of a His blood. You must pack up your things with bags that will not dwindle and walk through the wilderness, taking nothing with you.it is only then will see what I am saying because it is then that your heart will be revealed.

 

[truthisfreedom2019]

It says we WERE (past tense) as sheep going astray. But we now follow Jesus in his steps. So believers cannot justify a sin and still be saved doctrine because Jesus never taught such a thing. Grace is to lead us into an upright walk. But if folks teach that a believer can commit suicide and still be saved, or if they teach that a believer can die in one or two unrepentant sins (like lying or lusting) and still be saved (as long as they live a holy life generally), then they are not teaching the true Grace of God that denies ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly this present world. So it is more than just having a belief on Jesus. We need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

You are right. Jesus taught repentance which means change. He does not justify them that continue in sin, which is breaking the law. He that does not acknowledge the law does not acknowledge sin. We are not to live in sin.

 

[Strong in Him]

Then how do you make sense out of the following Scripture like Luke 10:25-28, Matthew 19:17-19, Matthew 25:31-46, 1 John 3:15, Titus 1:16, and Romans 8:13?

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I agreed with Oscar's post, so these are my thoughts.

Luke 10:27
The lawyer correctly answered that the first commandment is to love God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength. Later on, John wrote that we love because he first loved us, 1 John 4:19, and Jesus also told us to love as he loves us. He loves us with divine, Agape love; we cannot love others, or God, with that kind of love unless God first gives it to us.
We were sinners and deserved death, Romans 3:23, Romans 6:23. Yet instead of death, condemnation, destruction, God showed his love by sending his Son who offered his life for us sinners, John 10:11, Romans 5:8. We were first shown love by God and we respond to him with love; we love because he first loved us.
So we are told to love God - which we can't do until and unless we have been born again and received his love, which is also a fruit of the Holy Spirit. We can't love God if we don't know him - as a teenager, church goer and "trying to impress God with works" person I used to try to make myself fall in love with a picture of Jesus because I couldn't see any other way of loving him. I didn't have a relationship with him; he was someone I was trying to please and get on side.

Matthew 19:17-22
When asked about eternal life, Jesus said the man should keep the last 6 commandments - those which related to loving your neighbour. The man replied that he already kept these.
But then Jesus challenged him to keep the first 2 commandments - love God and don't have any idols - and he did this by telling the man to give away what was most dear to him; money. The man went away sad because he was not prepared to do that. Maybe he couldn't do it because he didn't know how much God loved him - he hadn't been healed or forgiven, for example.
Contrast that with the woman who poured out her expensive perfume on Jesus' feet because she knew how much she had been forgiven, Luke 7:37-47.

Matthew 25:31-46
Scripture says elsewhere that we believers will be rewarded, or not, for what we have done, 1 Corinthians 3:10-15, 2 Corinthians 5:10.
But if Jesus was saying here that eternal life depends on someone's works, he would be contradicting what he said elsewhere, e.g John 6:40, and what his apostles taught, John 3:36, 1 John 5:12, Acts of the Apostles 4:12.

1 John 3:15
Yes, but see 1 John 3:14 - we know that we have passed form death to life because we love our brothers. Our love for our brothers (and sisters) will be the evidence that we have passed from death to life - been born again. New life and a new heart come first - we love because he first loved us.

No one is saying that a Christian shouldn't do good works, but they cannot be the sole indicator of our love for God. Plenty of atheists, humanists and those of other faiths do good works.

The NEW commandment that Jesus gave us, was to love a he loved us.
We cannot keep that unless we have first been born again and received God's love.

 

[Strong in Him]

If "works of faith" (not works of the Law of Moses as a whole) play no part in the salvation process whatsoever after we are saved by God's grace (first), then that means believers can be axe murdering rapists and still enter into the glory of Heaven.

How many born again believers who've received eternal life, a new heart and EVERY spiritual blessing in Christ and who've WANTED to become axe murderers, do you know?

If works DO play a part in the salvation process then it means a) that Jesus' death wasn't enough, b) anyone who accepts Christ but dies before they can find out how to serve him, is not saved and c) that non Christians have to be at least partially saved, because they are doing the works.

For even if you say that a believer is regenerated and changed and they are forced to live righteously by God, they are still meeting the requirement of works.

God doesn't FORCE us to do anything.
We love because he first loved us.

Not helping the poor in this life means one will be cast into everlasting fire (Matthew 25:31-46).

If that were the case, there'd be a lot of people NOT cast into eternal fire who don't even believe.

 

[Calvin_1985]

I observed that many Christians are very lazy nowadays.

They prefer doing nothing for Jesus and said that "Grace alone " "we are not saved by Work ".

Then everyone is in idol mode to wait to go to Heaven.

Laziness is a big sin.

And Pride is an even bigger sin as it leads to broadbrushed unrighteous judgements of Others. Don't assume you know what people mean when they say Grace alone because you don't know them but only impose your own self justification upon their words. You have a lot of work to be done on your own heart.
I mean this in the nicest possible way, but shut up and stop judging other people and start working out your own Salvation with FEAR and TREMBLING. Your glorying is not good and is from a place of believing others should live up to a standard that you have set. You need to grow up.

 

[Aldebaran]

If you want to know what I am saying, then Eat of the Flesh of Jesus and drink of a His blood. You must pack up your things with bags that will not dwindle and walk through the wilderness, taking nothing with you.it is only then will see what I am saying because it is then that your heart will be revealed.

Nothing but a purse and a sword or two.
Luke 22:36
"Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I agreed with Oscar's post, so these are my thoughts.

Luke 10:27
The lawyer correctly answered that the first commandment is to love God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength. Later on, John wrote that we love because he first loved us, 1 John 4:19, and Jesus also told us to love as he loves us. He loves us with divine, Agape love; we cannot love others, or God, with that kind of love unless God first gives it to us.
We were sinners and deserved death, Romans 3:23, Romans 6:23. Yet instead of death, condemnation, destruction, God showed his love by sending his Son who offered his life for us sinners, John 10:11, Romans 5:8. We were first shown love by God and we respond to him with love; we love because he first loved us.
So we are told to love God - which we can't do until and unless we have been born again and received his love, which is also a fruit of the Holy Spirit. We can't love God if we don't know him - as a teenager, church goer and "trying to impress God with works" person I used to try to make myself fall in love with a picture of Jesus because I couldn't see any other way of loving him. I didn't have a relationship with him; he was someone I was trying to please and get on side.

Matthew 19:17-22
When asked about eternal life, Jesus said the man should keep the last 6 commandments - those which related to loving your neighbour. The man replied that he already kept these.
But then Jesus challenged him to keep the first 2 commandments - love God and don't have any idols - and he did this by telling the man to give away what was most dear to him; money. The man went away sad because he was not prepared to do that. Maybe he couldn't do it because he didn't know how much God loved him - he hadn't been healed or forgiven, for example.
Contrast that with the woman who poured out her expensive perfume on Jesus' feet because she knew how much she had been forgiven, Luke 7:37-47.

Matthew 25:31-46
Scripture says elsewhere that we believers will be rewarded, or not, for what we have done, 1 Corinthians 3:10-15, 2 Corinthians 5:10.
But if Jesus was saying here that eternal life depends on someone's works, he would be contradicting what he said elsewhere, e.g John 6:40, and what his apostles taught, John 3:36, 1 John 5:12, Acts of the Apostles 4:12.

1 John 3:15
Yes, but see 1 John 3:14 - we know that we have passed form death to life because we love our brothers. Our love for our brothers (and sisters) will be the evidence that we have passed from death to life - been born again. New life and a new heart come first - we love because he first loved us.

No one is saying that a Christian shouldn't do good works, but they cannot be the sole indicator of our love for God. Plenty of atheists, humanists and those of other faiths do good works.

The NEW commandment that Jesus gave us, was to love a he loved us.
We cannot keep that unless we have first been born again and received God's love.

I am not saying that a genuine born again believer (who has God living in them) will not have a noticeable change or difference in their life. But again, while we may have passed from life unto death, our free will is not taken away and there are still warnings against how sin can destroy a believer's soul in the afterlife. But if things are as you say, then we not expect to find verses such as these:

"But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" Hebrews 3:13-14.

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." James 1:12.

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” Matthew 24:13.

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." Revelation 2:10.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Revelation 2:7.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11.

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:5.

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." Jude 1:21.​

Anyways, the problem with your belief here is that you are saying that we are not saved by works (after being saved by God's grace), and yet God does the work through us in the sense that you cannot help it. But the problem is that this fulfills the aspect of the part of God's Laws in the New Covenant that do appear to condemn us. So works are needed as a part of salvation, it just that God does ALL the work through you. You can sit back and not worry about obeying, and make no effort and hope that God will do the work one day through you.

But..."Can two walk together, except they be agreed?" (Amos 3:3).

 

[timothyu]

So, who sets the rules for Christian living?

Jesus alone

 

[Bible Highlighter]

How many born again believers who've received eternal life, a new heart and EVERY spiritual blessing in Christ and who've WANTED to become axe murderers, do you know?

If works DO play a part in the salvation process then it means a) that Jesus' death wasn't enough, b) anyone who accepts Christ but dies before they can find out how to serve him, is not saved and c) that non Christians have to be at least partially saved, because they are doing the works.



God doesn't FORCE us to do anything.
We love because he first loved us.



If that were the case, there'd be a lot of people NOT cast into eternal fire who don't even believe.

George Sodini was a huge Eternal Security who gives the same message as many here (i.e. Just believe in Jesus and not your works, and you are saved). But he committed mass murder and then suicide. Others have committed suicide thinking they would be saved because of OSAS. Yet, would they do so if they knew that the Scriptures taught that they would not be saved? In other words, they fell for a deception. The idea that God would agree with a plan of salvation that would agree with committing grievous sin with the thinking one could be rewarded with Heaven. All they had to do was believe in Jesus. Don't worry about works. Jesus has got you. Don't worry about sin. Jesus has got you. So then this message leads to people thinking they can sin and still be saved on some level (Thereby turning God's grace into a license for immorality). You say a true believer will never think the wrong way about sin. But do you believe King David was saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder?

 

[timothyu]

This whole grace thing gets out of hand when people ignore the Kingdom, Jesus' only Gospel.

The Kingdom is the only thing new since the expulsion from the Garden. The Kingdom was given to us by the grace of God. It is not a place for the adversary or adversarial man. That fact alone disqualifies many, a great many. Change/repentance is required to even be considered. That chance is by the grace of God through the good news of the Kingdom (or so Jesus said).

 

[d taylor]

We don’t do works to earn salvation we do works because we abide in Christ and He abides in us. If we abide in Him and He in us we will bear much fruit. John 15:1-10

Seems like there are many who are trying by works.

Very rarely do i see or hear people tell that eternal life is by believing that Jesus is the promise Messiah from Old Testament prophecies and trust in Jesus for the gift of His eternal life.

The object of a persons faith should only be Jesus, As he is the only eternal life giver. baptism can not give a person eternal life, joining a church can not, confessing sins can not, circumcision can not, repenting of sins can not, Bible knowledge can not, so on and so on

 

[Aldebaran]

This whole grace thing gets out of hand when people ignore the Kingdom, Jesus' only Gospel.

The Kingdom is the only thing new since the expulsion from the Garden. The Kingdom was given to us by the grace of God. It is not a place for the adversary or adversarial man. That fact alone disqualifies many, a great many. Change/repentance is required to even be considered. That chance is by the grace of God through the good news of the Kingdom (or so Jesus said).

There were other new things since the Garden. The law, then Christ fulfilling the law.

 

[timothyu]

There were other new things since the Garden. The law, then Christ fulfilling the law.

The Kingdom is the Law and the Messiah it's King

Who benefits by not focusing on the Kingdom, the reason Jesus came?