Creationist schools and universities

Strathos

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IN GOD WE TRUST

God, bless America!
Land that I love!
Stand beside her,
And guide her,
Through the night, with the Light from above!

This just seems like a strange non-sequitur.

And they can fail the class if they want.

You know, get an F.Then they can do it off school property, but not in the classroom.Not the students.

What if the class is run by Mormons and anyone who gives the answers you want instead of the LDS answers fails the class?

What if it's run by flat earth creationists and anyone who says that God made the earth round fails the class?

What if it's run by theistic evolutionists and anyone who says that God didn't use evolution fails the class?

What you don't seem to realize is that you can't force public schools to teach things the way you want any more than anyone else can. You might have ideas on how to do things, but there are millions of people across the country who have their own ideas, and many of their ideas would probably be abhorrent to you, and yours to them. You are one citizen. What gives your ideas any more weight than those of any other US citizen?
 
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Ttalkkugjil

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Twisting natural phenomena to agree with fundie Christian creationists has already failed . In fact, it’s one of the reasons that the atheist community is increasing. People feel betrayed when an authority figure lies to them. some American Christian schools in the south already distort history enough without adding to the misinformation

You seem to believe that the Bible's creation accounts are lies. How does that influence the way you read the rest of the Bible. If humanity didn't fall away from God, why did we need a Savior.
 
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Speedwell

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You seem to believe that the Bible's creation accounts are lies.
Perhaps that is a misapprehension based on exposure to the false dichotomy that the Genesis stories can only be 100% accurate literal history or "lies."
How does that influence the way you read the rest of the Bible.
Not a bit. The historicity of each book must be evaluated independently on its own internal evidence.

If humanity didn't fall away from God, why did we need a Savior.
And that is a fallacy of logic called "denying the antecedent."
Denying the antecedent - Wikipedia
 
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AV1611VET

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This just seems like a strange non-sequitur.
That's because you're not thinking this through.
Strathos said:
What if the class is run by Mormons ...
So what?

What if math class is run by Mormons?

They still have to teach what's in the book, don't they?

History book:
  1. Chapter 1: Creationism
  2. Chapter 2: Columbus Discovers America
  3. Chapter 3: The Wright Brothers Discover Flight
Etc. and so on.
Strathos said:
What if it's run by flat earth creationists and anyone who says that God made the earth round fails the class?
Strathos, do you apply the same logic to a creationist who teaches evolution?

I would say you don't.

As long as the teacher leaves his beliefs at the front door, he can teach evolution all he wants, can't he?

You're not trying very hard to understand, are you?
Strathos said:
What if it's run by theistic evolutionists and anyone who says that God didn't use evolution fails the class?
I doubt he would get through the first week of class, if he tries to teach anything other than the curriculum.

At the interview, he needs to be asked something to the effect of:

"Are you willing to leave your personal beliefs about creationism out of it and teach what's in the history book?"
 
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Ttalkkugjil

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Perhaps that is a misapprehension based on exposure to the false dichotomy that the Genesis stories can only be 100% accurate literal history or "lies." Not a bit. The historicity of each book must be evaluated independently on its own internal evidence.

And that is a fallacy of logic called "denying the antecedent."
Denying the antecedent - Wikipedia

What's fun is that I get to note that you dudn't actually answer the last question.
 
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Speedwell

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What's fun is that I get to note that you dudn't actually answer the last question.
Because the question embodied a logical fallacy. We need a Savior because we have fallen from God. We have fallen from God even if the Garden story is not a literal and inerrant account of that fall.
 
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Strathos

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That's because you're not thinking this through.So what?

What if math class is run by Mormons?

They still have to teach what's in the book, don't they?

History book:
  1. Chapter 1: Creationism
  2. Chapter 2: Columbus Discovers America
  3. Chapter 3: The Wright Brothers Discover Flight
Etc. and so on.

Strathos, do you apply the same logic to a creationist who teaches evolution?

I would say you don't.

As long as the teacher leaves his beliefs at the front door, he can teach evolution all he wants, can't he?

You're not trying very hard to understand, are you?
I doubt he would get through the first week of class, if he tries to teach anything other than the curriculum.

At the interview, he needs to be asked something to the effect of:

"Are you willing to leave your personal beliefs about creationism out of it and teach what's in the history book?"

Who writes the history book? You obviously can't use the Bible as a textbook since there are so many vastly different ways to interpret it, even just limited to Genesis. There's also the problem of, once again, not everyone in the country being Christian. Some people would demand that the Koran or the Vedas be used as textbooks if this set a precedent. And even if you somehow got past all of that, what version do you use? Obviously you would want the KJV, but others might want the NIV, ASV, CSB, etc.

Most everyone has their own ideas about creationism, and most of them don't match up with each other. How do you find one that everyone can agree on?
 
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We can cross those bridges when we come to them.

In the meantime, first things first.

Let's get creationism back in school.

It may take years to separate the wheat from the chaff and get creationism its place in our history books, but let's deal with this one at a time.

Rhetorical question: When Jesus comes back and audits our books, do you want Him to see what's in them?

Separation of Church from State, life sentences, people shacking up, liquor stores, Santa Claus, Elf on the Shelf, the Easter Bunny, tooth fairy, abortions and other things?

Jeremiah 6:15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.
 
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Subduction Zone

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We can cross those bridges when we come to them.

In the meantime, first things first.

Let's get creationism back in school.

It may takes years to separate the wheat from the chaff and get creationism its place in our history books, but let's deal with this one at a time.

Rhetorical question: When Jesus comes back and audits our books, do you want Him to see what's in them?

Separation of Church from State, life sentences, people shacking up, liquor stores, Santa Claus, Elf on the Shelf, the Easter Bunny, tooth fairy, abortions and other things?
Why would you want an idea that is demonstrably false in schools? And I told you the one legal way it could be done. I take it that obeying the law was not what you like to do.
 
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AV1611VET

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So what, exactly, do you want taught?
From a post I made last year:

Here's a test I made up:
  1. Explain the difference between creatio ex nihilo and creatio ex materia; and give two examples of each.
  2. Explain the difference between "God" and "LORD God".
  3. Eden in the Bible is known as __________ on a secular map.
  4. The triune Godhead is a violation of what scientific law?
  5. Put the following in order that they appeared in the universe: whales, stars, trees, sun, land, sea, outer space.
  6. What day was Adam created on?
  7. Was the universe created a closed system and, if not, what kind of energy did it run off of? if it was created open, what closed it?
  8. Describe terra aqua and what kind of water it consisted of and why.
  9. Photosynthesis required light from the sun prior to the Fall. true or false?
  10. Explain how a 24-hour day could transpire before the sun was created.
 
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Strathos

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We can cross those bridges when we come to them.

In the meantime, first things first.

Let's get creationism back in school.

It may take years to separate the wheat from the chaff and get creationism its place in our history books, but let's deal with this one at a time.

Rhetorical question: When Jesus comes back and audits our books, do you want Him to see what's in them?

Separation of Church from State, life sentences, people shacking up, liquor stores, Santa Claus, Elf on the Shelf, the Easter Bunny, tooth fairy, abortions and other things?

Jeremiah 6:15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.

We don't live in a theocracy.

If the USA still exists as a nation when Jesus returns, then it, and every other nation on earth, will be abolished. But until that happens, we have to follow the laws of the nations we live in.

Matthew 22:20 - 21 said:
And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
 
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AV1611VET

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We don't live in a theocracy.

If the USA still exists as a nation when Jesus returns, then it, and every other nation on earth, will be abolished. But until that happens, we have to follow the laws of the nations we live in.
Ya ... and you helped get those laws in place too, didn't you?

(Not necessary you specifically. The question is another rhetorical one.)
 
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Strathos

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Ya ... and you helped get those laws in place too, didn't you?

(Not necessary you specifically. The question is another rhetorical one.)

Not necessarily me specifically? You mean US citizens, who help determine public policy by voting? Then yes, that's kind of how democracy works. You're welcome to move to another country if you don't like it.
 
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Speedwell

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From a post I made last year:

Here's a test I made up:
  1. Explain the difference between creatio ex nihilo and creatio ex materia; and give two examples of each.
  2. Explain the difference between "God" and "LORD God".
  3. Eden in the Bible is known as __________ on a secular map.
  4. The triune Godhead is a violation of what scientific law?
  5. Put the following in order that they appeared in the universe: whales, stars, trees, sun, land, sea, outer space.
  6. What day was Adam created on?
  7. Was the universe created a closed system and, if not, what kind of energy did it run off of? if it was created open, what closed it?
  8. Describe terra aqua and what kind of water it consisted of and why.
  9. Photosynthesis required light from the sun prior to the Fall. true or false?
  10. Explain how a 24-hour day could transpire before the sun was created.
Oh, goody. Let's see how I do:

1. How come you left Creatio ex Deo off that list?
2. None.
3. New Jersey.
4. None.
5. Outer space, stars, sun, land, sea, trees, whales.
6. His birthday.
7. Closed.
8. Dihydrogen oxide.
9. True.
10. It couldn't.

Now you can correct my paper. But I cheated on number three.
 
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Ttalkkugjil

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Not necessarily me specifically? You mean US citizens, who help determine public policy by voting? Then yes, that's kind of how democracy works. You're welcome to move to another country if you don't like it.

That's what I did. :)
 
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Nando Ronteltap

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From a post I made last year:

Here's a test I made up:
  1. Explain the difference between creatio ex nihilo and creatio ex materia; and give two examples of each.
  2. Explain the difference between "God" and "LORD God".
  3. Eden in the Bible is known as __________ on a secular map.
  4. The triune Godhead is a violation of what scientific law?
  5. Put the following in order that they appeared in the universe: whales, stars, trees, sun, land, sea, outer space.
  6. What day was Adam created on?
  7. Was the universe created a closed system and, if not, what kind of energy did it run off of? if it was created open, what closed it?
  8. Describe terra aqua and what kind of water it consisted of and why.
  9. Photosynthesis required light from the sun prior to the Fall. true or false?
  10. Explain how a 24-hour day could transpire before the sun was created.

Only number one would possibly be taught in creationism class, but arguably only creatio ex nihilo is correct.
What would be taught in creationism class:

1. what is a choice?
2. what is an opinion?
3. what is a fact?
4. which words belong in the category of matters of opinion, and which words belong in the category of matters of fact.


The way you set up creationism is theocratic. It is not respecting of freedom of opinion.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Only number one would possibly be taught in creationism class, but arguably only creatio ex nihilo is correct.
What would be taught in creationism class:

1. what is a choice?
2. what is an opinion?
3. what is a fact?
4. which words belong in the category of matters of opinion, and which words belong in the category of matters of fact.


The way you set up creationism is theocratic. It is not respecting of freedom of opinion.
Of course one can not have theocratic courses in nations that have freedom of religion. One needs something much stronger than one's personal belief in a holy book.
 
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