Questions about the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, this subject is interesting don't you think so?

[HeartenedHeart]

It has been said: "We don't need to. You really think we have to. The Scripture says very plainly we don't and can't." - Link

Which was in response to the question, "Did you know that we can fulfill the law, too?" - Link

What the original responder has not understood, is that Paul, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, said:

Rom_8:4 That the righteousness (right-doing, not merely right-saying) of the law (Ten Commandments, as per Rom. 7:7,10,11,12,13,14,21,22,25) might be fulfilled (to carry out to the deepest levels, so completing the commandment in spirit and in truth, thus in heart and in deed) in us (those who claim to follow Christ, Jhn. 1:29,36, who did no sin, 1 Pet. 2:22), who walk (that is, to live and do) not after the flesh (which transgresses the Law of God; Rom. 8:7), but after the Spirit (who wrote the Ten Commandments, Exo. 31:18, Deut. 9:10; Luk. 11:20; Mat. 12:28; for the Law of God, the Ten Commandments are all, entirely, wholly, completely spiritual and not a single part carnal in the least letter, jot or tittle, Rom. 7:14).

To any person who says a Christian does not need to 'fulfil the law' (Ten Commandments) of God through the grace bestowed in Christ Jesus, by the strength provided at Calvary, effective by the Holy Spirit, is a transgressor of said Law, Jam. 2:10 and is not in their right state of mind, for they are yet carnal, not understanding even the basics of salvation, "from their sins" (Mat. 1:21; 1 Jhn. 3:4).

The issue is, that so many (wrongly) think that the Law (Ten Commandments) is/are abolished, or that the Law of God (Ten Commandments) is the old covenant, but neither is the case. To abolish the Law of God would be to abolish His own perfect character, Exo. 33:12-23, 34:1-9, 20:5-7. In fact, that is exactly what satan tried to do, and the leaders of the Jewish nation, who wrongly hated the character of God, but all that he manged to crucify was the flesh, not the Spirit (for spirit hath not flesh and bones; Luk. 24:39).

Rom_7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

All who do 'not' "know", are not part of the "we" that Paul spake of.

Therefore, when Paul said, "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.", what Law is he referring to in context, and what does the word 'fulfil' mean there?

 

[HeartenedHeart]

Another question:

Since the sabbath is a "sign", between whom and whom is this "sign", and secondarily, how long is the "sign" to be for between the whom and whom?

 

[HeartenedHeart]

A person has said in answer to the question: "Since the sabbath is a "sign", between whom and whom is this "sign", and secondarily, how long is the "sign" to be for between the whom and whom?"

"... the Scripture says between God and Israel. ... . Jesus isn't Israel. ..." - Link

The first part of the statement is true:

Exo 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

But is the second part of the response true?

Mat 2:13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
Mat 2:14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
Mat 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Mat 2:19 But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt,
Mat 2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.
Mat 2:21 And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel.

Whom is Matthew, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost directly citing?

Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Who then is the "child", that was "called ... out of Egypt", and whose "son" is he, and what was the name of this "son"?

Exo_4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

But was God merely talking about OT peoples, named from their ancestor Jacob? or was God speaking about a higher firstborn, a greater son, who overcame all things?

Joh_16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Who is this 'overcomer'? Who is this 'Prince with God'? Who then is this "son"? Well scripture calls this "son" the "firstborn". Who then is this "firstborn"?

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Rom_8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Col_1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col_1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Heb_12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Luk_2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

Mat_1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

From scripture, we find that Jesus is Israel, the real firstborn, the real overcomer, the real 'prince with God', the real "son" who was "called ... out of Egypt".

Therefore, the holy sabbath of the LORD thy God, the 7th day rest of God, is a "sign" between the Father (s' abba' owth) and the Son, for ever, sealed by the Holy Ghost, right?

 

[HeartenedHeart]

Here is a listing of 'reasons' that many give for not Honouring the 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) of God when asked if they do:

Calendar has been Changed
Christ is the End of the Law ...
Early Church Fathers Citations
Every Day is Holy
History of the Church
International Dateline (Dayline)
Jesus Broke the Sabbath
Jesus Fulfilled the Law
Jesus Kept the Sabbath for me, so I do not now have to
Jesus Nailed the Sabbath to the Cross
Jesus is my Sabbath
Jesus Rose from the Dead on the First Day of the Week, Ending the Sabbath
Jesus Rose from the Dead on the First Day of the Week, Making it the New Sabbath
Livelihood - gotta keep my job to put food on the table
Lunar sabbaths
Nine Commandments Found in the New Testament, but not Sabbath
No Commandment in Genesis to keep the Sabbath
No Commandment in the New Testament to keep th Sabbath
No Commandment to Keep the Sabbath until Exodus 20
No Evening and Morning on the 7th Day in Genesis
No Man Kept Sabbath until Moses
No Word Sabbath in Genesis
Not to Judge about Sabbath Keeping
Not Under the Law but Under Grace
Not Under the Old Coventant (which they say is the Ten Commandments)
One Day in Seven Is Holy
Only Two Commandments to Keep Now
Sabbath was Changed to the LORD's Day (which they say is the first day)
Sabbath was only for the Hebrews
Sabbath was only for the Israelites
Sabbath was only for the Jews
Sabbath was only temporary
Seventh Day Sabbath cannot be Kept on the International Space Station
Seventh Day Sabbath cannot be Kept on the Poles (North & South)
Seventh Day Sabbath cannot be Kept on a Submarine
Seventh Day Sabbath was a Shadow of Things to Come
Stone the Sabbath Breaker
Sunday is the LORD's Day
Sunday is the New Order of Sabbaths (Mat. 28:1)
Sunday is the Sabbath
Time has been Lost
Tradition of the Churches
Under the New Covenant (which they say does not include the Ten Commandments)
We are in the New Creation, the 8th Day (Ogdoad)

What is your personal 'reason' as listed above if you do not keep the 7th day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God Holy (or if not listed, please list it so it may be added), and does anyone see any contradictions and/or faulty reasoning concerning the above 'reasons'?

 

[HeartenedHeart]

In Acts 15, we read:

Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
Act 15:3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
Act 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Act 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
Act 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

My question is, Since James quoted from the OT texts in Acts 15:16-18, and then states his sentence as "we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God", what did James mean by "turned to God", in relation to the passages he cited, in connection with the verses following in Acts 15:20-21, which also cites OT texts, with the where (location) and when (time) of learning would take place?

 

[HeartenedHeart]

Does the question, Since Jesus rose from the dead on 'the first [day] of the week', does that mean Jesus is my resurrection (Jhn. 11:25), He lives for me (Heb. 7:25), therefore, I don't have to ever be resurrected or do anything since Jesus did do it, and is even now doing it, make any sense?

 

[ace of hearts]

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[ace of hearts]

Do you believe that Jesus is concerned with the Truth and details?

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

When Jesus asked a question to get at the details, a reference to the word of God was made, specifically Deut. 6:5; Lev. 19:18,

Luk 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

Notice Jesus' answer:

Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

For there is a right answer, and many wrong ones.

Since John 17:17 state that it is truth that sanctifies, it is also conversely true that error does not ever, and cannot sanctify.

My replies, to the previous person, was to correct their error, and mistaken notion, by the word of God.

You are free to accept or reject those replies, but the consequences or results for either decision will follow.

It surely does, but this thread is not about Jesus' resurrection, per se, as it is specific to the Sabbath as the OP title is given. Now, since you have stated (and I agree with the scripture) that Jesus "rose from the grave on the first day of the week", how does that read in koine Greek?

I posted those here - Questions about the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, this subject is interesting don't you think so?

as posted previuosly:

"Matthew 28:1(a) - (Koine Greek) οψε δε σαββατων (Transliterated) oye de sabbatwn

Matthew 28:1(b) - (Koine Greek) εις μιαν σαββατων (Transliterated) eiV mian sabbatwn

Mark 16:2 - (Koine Greek) και λιαν πρωι της μιας σαββατων (Transliterated) kai lian prwi ths mias sabbatwn

Mark 16:9 - (Koine Greek) αναστας δε πρωι πρωτη σαββατου (Transliterated) anastas de prwi prwth sabbatou

Luke 24:1 - (Koine Greek) τη δε μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th de mia twn sabbatwn

John 20:1 - (Koine Greek) τη δε μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th de mia twn sabbatwn

John 20:19 - (Koine Greek) τη μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th mia twn sabbatwn

Acts 20:7 - (Koine Greek) εν δε τη μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) en de th mia twn sabbatwn

1 Corinthians 16:2 - (Koine Greek) κατα μιαν σαββατων (Transliterated) kata mian sabbatwn"

Which shows demonstrably that the 7th day the sabbath was still, in the NT, by those writers (and some years after the resurrection, and one a gentile (Luke)), the sabbath, and the whole week culminated in it, and that the 'first' day was simply a numeral towards that day, and small part of the creation, of which the sabbath was the finishing seal of, by God., like as unto an Artist who signs His name to that which is completed and finished.

That Jesus rose on 'the first day of the week' is not in question by myself, and it also does not in any way change the 7th day to the first day, nor alter the commandment itself (Exo. 20:8-11), neither does it undo God's rest upon the 7th day from Gen. 2:1-3.

Jesus did many things, many miracles on many differing days. None of those things alters or negates that which is the 7th day, God's sabbath.

If you will consider the historical material in the videos at the OP, you will see that it was not always the case, but came in through centuries and men's tradition.

In the NT itself, I have shown that the disciples met on many days of the week, not merely the first day of the week. I have shown that Jesus met with the disciples on the second day of the week, and on other days, after the resurrection. Yet, they (Jesus, disciples, Jews, etc) all had met on many days of the week prior to Jesus resurrection, as also shown. Wherein does that change, alter, negate God's sabbath rest from Gen., or alter the commandment, etc?

I meet with other fellow believers on many days of the week, including on the first day. There is no injunction against meeting on any day. Yet, merely meeting is not what the commandment (Exo. 20:8-11), neither example of God (Gen. 2:1-3) from the beginning exact upon the believer, follower of God.

The commandment and example of God is specific in its matter of 'rest'.

If persons desire to meet on other days of the week, that is their prerogative, but let it not be the substitute for following the commandment and example of God.

I do meet with believers on many days of the week, and sometimes every day of the week, depending. That is not the issue, but is rather a distraction to the issue.

A servant of God in Romans 14 must obey and follow God, otherwise, it is sin, and causing others to stumble at their disobedience (Rom. 14:13), which is in the context of the Ten Commandments, in Rom. 13:8-10 (specifically citing the second table in "brief", showing that there was more, "any other commandment"). For to "stand" is to live without sin, and to "fall" is to be fallen into sin, 1 John 3:4.

Romans 14 says nothing about the sabbath, neither the first day of the week. What it does say is in regards matters of personal preference to that which is allowed within God's law, not that which is outside of God's law, and the 'days' spoken of therein, deal with days of eating and keeping, or not eating and not keeping, etc, which are fast days, which is what the Pharisaical Jews constantly argued about, in what "man esteems". Compare the words of Rom. 14:5, to Luk. 16;15, for those things which man highly esteems is an abomination in the sight of God, for they negate His Law, to suit their own prejudices.

Sabbath is not in view of Rom. 14, and is not even specifically mentioned in the whole of the chapter, neither in the whole of the book of Romans. What is mentioned is the Law of God, in which is the 4th commandment, being one of the "ten commandments", which is how Paul knew what sin was.

What is amazing, is that those who cite Rom. 14 to be able to keep their 'tradition' (and no commandment day), generally do not give the same leeway to those who acknowledge God's commandment (Exo. 20:8-11) and keep Holy (as commanded) God's rest day, the 7th day, the sabbath of the Lord (Gen. 2:1-3).

Rom. 14 does not even mention 'rest', nor of meeting together in groups. Rom. 14 is speaking of individual matters within the bounds of God's law.

It also refers to "doubtful" things, and the Law of God, and especially the day God rested was never "doubtful" by God's servants, for when God rests, the servants also rest, for the servant is not greater than His Master/Lord, neither the child greater than their Father.

Salvation isn't based on being legal righteousness. Salvation is based solely on the righteousness of Jesus Christ. Jesus said you will go through Him or you won't have access to the Father. Legal self righteousness will be burned up as the filthy rags.

 

[ace of hearts]

Do you believe that Jesus is concerned with the Truth and details?

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

When Jesus asked a question to get at the details, a reference to the word of God was made, specifically Deut. 6:5; Lev. 19:18,

Luk 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

Notice Jesus' answer:

Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

For there is a right answer, and many wrong ones.

Since John 17:17 state that it is truth that sanctifies, it is also conversely true that error does not ever, and cannot sanctify.

My replies, to the previous person, was to correct their error, and mistaken notion, by the word of God.

You are free to accept or reject those replies, but the consequences or results for either decision will follow.

It surely does, but this thread is not about Jesus' resurrection, per se, as it is specific to the Sabbath as the OP title is given. Now, since you have stated (and I agree with the scripture) that Jesus "rose from the grave on the first day of the week", how does that read in koine Greek?

I posted those here - Questions about the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, this subject is interesting don't you think so?

as posted previuosly:

"Matthew 28:1(a) - (Koine Greek) οψε δε σαββατων (Transliterated) oye de sabbatwn

Matthew 28:1(b) - (Koine Greek) εις μιαν σαββατων (Transliterated) eiV mian sabbatwn

Mark 16:2 - (Koine Greek) και λιαν πρωι της μιας σαββατων (Transliterated) kai lian prwi ths mias sabbatwn

Mark 16:9 - (Koine Greek) αναστας δε πρωι πρωτη σαββατου (Transliterated) anastas de prwi prwth sabbatou

Luke 24:1 - (Koine Greek) τη δε μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th de mia twn sabbatwn

John 20:1 - (Koine Greek) τη δε μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th de mia twn sabbatwn

John 20:19 - (Koine Greek) τη μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th mia twn sabbatwn

Acts 20:7 - (Koine Greek) εν δε τη μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) en de th mia twn sabbatwn

1 Corinthians 16:2 - (Koine Greek) κατα μιαν σαββατων (Transliterated) kata mian sabbatwn"

Which shows demonstrably that the 7th day the sabbath was still, in the NT, by those writers (and some years after the resurrection, and one a gentile (Luke)), the sabbath, and the whole week culminated in it, and that the 'first' day was simply a numeral towards that day, and small part of the creation, of which the sabbath was the finishing seal of, by God., like as unto an Artist who signs His name to that which is completed and finished.

That Jesus rose on 'the first day of the week' is not in question by myself, and it also does not in any way change the 7th day to the first day, nor alter the commandment itself (Exo. 20:8-11), neither does it undo God's rest upon the 7th day from Gen. 2:1-3.

Jesus did many things, many miracles on many differing days. None of those things alters or negates that which is the 7th day, God's sabbath.

If you will consider the historical material in the videos at the OP, you will see that it was not always the case, but came in through centuries and men's tradition.

In the NT itself, I have shown that the disciples met on many days of the week, not merely the first day of the week. I have shown that Jesus met with the disciples on the second day of the week, and on other days, after the resurrection. Yet, they (Jesus, disciples, Jews, etc) all had met on many days of the week prior to Jesus resurrection, as also shown. Wherein does that change, alter, negate God's sabbath rest from Gen., or alter the commandment, etc?

I meet with other fellow believers on many days of the week, including on the first day. There is no injunction against meeting on any day. Yet, merely meeting is not what the commandment (Exo. 20:8-11), neither example of God (Gen. 2:1-3) from the beginning exact upon the believer, follower of God.

The commandment and example of God is specific in its matter of 'rest'.

If persons desire to meet on other days of the week, that is their prerogative, but let it not be the substitute for following the commandment and example of God.

I do meet with believers on many days of the week, and sometimes every day of the week, depending. That is not the issue, but is rather a distraction to the issue.

A servant of God in Romans 14 must obey and follow God, otherwise, it is sin, and causing others to stumble at their disobedience (Rom. 14:13), which is in the context of the Ten Commandments, in Rom. 13:8-10 (specifically citing the second table in "brief", showing that there was more, "any other commandment"). For to "stand" is to live without sin, and to "fall" is to be fallen into sin, 1 John 3:4.

Romans 14 says nothing about the sabbath, neither the first day of the week. What it does say is in regards matters of personal preference to that which is allowed within God's law, not that which is outside of God's law, and the 'days' spoken of therein, deal with days of eating and keeping, or not eating and not keeping, etc, which are fast days, which is what the Pharisaical Jews constantly argued about, in what "man esteems". Compare the words of Rom. 14:5, to Luk. 16;15, for those things which man highly esteems is an abomination in the sight of God, for they negate His Law, to suit their own prejudices.

Sabbath is not in view of Rom. 14, and is not even specifically mentioned in the whole of the chapter, neither in the whole of the book of Romans. What is mentioned is the Law of God, in which is the 4th commandment, being one of the "ten commandments", which is how Paul knew what sin was.

What is amazing, is that those who cite Rom. 14 to be able to keep their 'tradition' (and no commandment day), generally do not give the same leeway to those who acknowledge God's commandment (Exo. 20:8-11) and keep Holy (as commanded) God's rest day, the 7th day, the sabbath of the Lord (Gen. 2:1-3).

Rom. 14 does not even mention 'rest', nor of meeting together in groups. Rom. 14 is speaking of individual matters within the bounds of God's law.

It also refers to "doubtful" things, and the Law of God, and especially the day God rested was never "doubtful" by God's servants, for when God rests, the servants also rest, for the servant is not greater than His Master/Lord, neither the child greater than their Father.

By your posts this thread is about salvation thru keeping the law. No one does this even if they claim they do. The issue is specifically keeping the sabbath. No one does.

 

[Shimshon]

By your posts this thread is about salvation thru keeping the law. No one does this even if they claim they do. The issue is specifically keeping the sabbath. No one does.

When we abide in Messiah you cease from your own works and live for the service of others, through Messiah who is our example by having done so for us. This is the meaning of him being our Sabbath rest.

Galatians 2:19-20
Hebrews 4:10
1 John 3:16-18

 

[HeartenedHeart]

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Excellent texts, thank you for sharing, as Paul, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost in them is most clear, that we should "reckon" ourselves "dead" "indeed" (notice the words 'in' 'deed', from thought to action) "unto sin" and Paul stated:

Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

What "the law" is Paul referring to specifically, and where can I find a written transcript of this in scripture, for I am to test all things by scripture?

So, the response, while most excellent texts, doesn't really answer my questions that I have asked does it?

As for instance:

Does the question, Since Jesus rose from the dead on 'the first [day] of the week', does that mean Jesus is my resurrection (Jhn. 11:25), He lives for me (Heb. 7:25), therefore, I don't have to ever be resurrected or do anything since Jesus did do it, and is even now doing it, make any sense?

 

[HeartenedHeart]

By your posts this thread is about salvation thru keeping the law.

Why do you mischaracterize what I have asked in this thread? My questions are quite clear, and have nothing to do with 'salvation thru keeping the law', as it is written:

Rom_3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law of God was never for salvation, and I never said it was, for that would be contradiction to the word, but instead I have said that "by the law is the knowledge of sin", and yet I continue to ask, and obtain only guilty silence, when I ask, "What 'the law' is being referred to, and where can I find a written transcript of this, so as not to transgress it in thought, word, action or in teaching?"

No one does this even if they claim they do.

No one does what? Be specific.

The issue is specifically keeping the sabbath. No one does.

Then does no one keep the commandment to Honour their Father and Mother?, does not one keep the commandment to not steal, murder (kill), covet, commit adultery, make no graven image nor bow down to them and serve them, no other gods before God, take the name of the LORD in vain, bear false witness against thy neighbour?, for if not, then what is the reason Paul stated what was stated, by inspiration of the Holy Ghost, that you, yourself cited in Romans 6:3-11, and what of the further text in Romans 8:4? I desperately need your reply in this matter.

Thank you.

 

[ace of hearts]

When we abide in Messiah you cease from your own works and live for the service of others, through Messiah who is our example by having done so for us. This is the meaning of him being our Sabbath rest.

Galatians 2:19-20
Hebrews 4:10
1 John 3:16-18

Sorry but I see no connection between our posts.

 

[HeartenedHeart]

By your posts this thread is about salvation thru keeping the law. No one does this even if they claim they do. The issue is specifically keeping the sabbath. No one does.

Why do you mischaracterize what I have asked in this thread? My questions are quite clear, and have nothing to do with 'salvation thru keeping the law', as it is written:

Rom_3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law of God was never for salvation, and I never said it was, for that would be contradiction to the word, but instead I have said that "by the law is the knowledge of sin", and yet I continue to ask, and obtain only guilty silence, when I ask, "What 'the law' is being referred to, and where can I find a written transcript of this, so as not to transgress it in thought, word, action or in teaching?"

No one does what? Be specific.

Then does no one keep the commandment to Honour their Father and Mother?, does not one keep the commandment to not steal, murder (kill), covet, commit adultery, make no graven image nor bow down to them and serve them, no other gods before God, take the name of the LORD in vain, bear false witness against thy neighbour?, for if not, then what is the reason Paul stated what was stated, by inspiration of the Holy Ghost, that you, yourself cited in Romans 6:3-11, and what of the further text in Romans 8:4? I desperately need your reply in this matter.

Thank you.

A Christian would apologize for mischaracterizing another (whether intentional or not) after being shown doing so.

 

[ace of hearts]

You sound just like the person in the videos. I think you have a misunderstanding about the nature of the videos. Please consider the first one, or any title.

The author of the videos agrees with your stated position.

I started watching the first video. It's by an SDA pastor Jeff Dowell attacking another person who happens to be a what SDA people call a former. Evidently SDA people can't talk about the sabbath without trying to destroy others. Based on this Jeff Dowell/you have nothing of value to say concerning the sabbath.

Of course the sabbath is an interesting subject for you. My bet is you're not really interested in open honest discussion on the subject. What then is your real interest and focus or purpose? Is it not true that the SDA literature says one can't have salvation without observing the 7th day sabbath? I suppose you need the quote from your church's literature. It can be provided on request. It has been posted quite a few time in this section of the forum by different people. I have in my library 4 out of the 5 book set by EGW, courtesy of SDA people. I also have a few other SDA pieces of literature. I talked with and SDA person for a decade and had to tell them not come back to my house. I was cussed by them because on their voluntary confession they couldn't prove me wrong.

Since you claim an interest in the sabbath, I've a few questions for you -

• Who was the sabbath given to
• Where does the word "sabbath" first appear in Scripture
• What is the purpose of the sabbath
  
• Is the sabbath ceremonial in nature
  
• What does keeping the sabbath entail
• Do you keep the sabbath given to Israel or an amended version
• Is there any passage in the NT requiring the observance of the sabbath
• Exactly who in the NT do we see keeping the sabbath

No generalization, specifics only. Keeping the sabbath is a personal religious choice. If you wish to do so I've no objection. I do object to requiring it of others to eat from the tree of life (have salvation).

My sole purpose of this post is honest dialogue. Are you truly interested?

 

[ace of hearts]

HeartenedHeart,

I will go through your thread post by post later.

 

[HeartenedHeart]

I started watching the first video.

Excellent. Did you finish it, and completely watch all of it?

It's by an SDA pastor Jeff Dowell

Truly, but what does that have to do with the material presented? What if the same material were presented by another, not of the same faith as the person in the video, would that make the difference to your mind?

Simply referring to the person, does not address the subject, neither the material the person is bringing to light. It is generally an Ad Hominem approach to discussion, and ends up distracting from the main OP.

Are you going to be discussing the subject or Pastor Jeff Dowell personally?

attacking another person who happens to be a what SDA people call a former.

I did not see any 'attacking' another person or persons, by Pastor Jeff Dowell, unless you can point to a specific incident, and define by what you mean 'attacking'.

What I saw, was Pastor Jeff Dowell addressing the material (written books, comments, etc) of several persons, including one 'Dale Ratzlaff' (but not merely, nor only). What I saw was contrasting information, from one source to another.

This is how study is to be done, by testing what is stated and written by any to the scripture, history, etc.

Evidently SDA people can't talk about the sabbath without trying to destroy others.

Can you point to a specific example of Pastor Jeff Dowell, in the video series, specifically video 1 that you partially watched at the time of posting, where he was 'trying to destroy others'?

I saw no evidence of that, and therefore, would like you to be specific with time indexes, so that I and others can check your claim, in detail, and rather not in vagueness. This would be appreciated. Thank you.

Even if Pastor Jeff Dowell did do so as you claim, though I saw no evidence of it, and do not grant such a point, that would not validate the extension of your claim, namely, that 'SDA people can't talk about the sabbath without trying to destroy others.' What you did was a logical fallacy, based upon, presently, a personal apriori (as the claim is undocumented), that you included all SDA based upon a single individual. That is not only illogical, but it is also quite unjust to the many other SDA. Why would you lump all together like that? However, first things first, please demonstrate with time indexes the claim. Thank you.

Based on this Jeff Dowell/you have nothing of value to say concerning the sabbath.

I am not Pastor Jeff Dowell, and do not agree with every statement, piece of material presented by Pastor Jeff Dowell, though I think that the vast majority, 99% of it, is valid thought, material, documentation.

I have been presenting in this thread my own thoughts, and not merely regurgitating the thought of another, especially this Pastor Jeff Dowell, whom I do not know personally. I just happened to come across the videos on youtube and thought they were good for discussion on the subject of the sabbath. They are a springboard for the topic, not my final thoughts.

Therefore, please address my questions, if you do not desire to address the video material specifically, with time indexes. Thank you.

Of course the sabbath is an interesting subject for you.

How can you say, 'Of course ...'?

My bet is you're not really interested in open honest discussion on the subject.

I do not gamble, I am a Christian.

All of my questions are most earnest, and come from the personal desire to personally know. Thank you.

What then is your real interest and focus or purpose?

The OP states my purpose.

Is it not true that the SDA literature says one can't have salvation without observing the 7th day sabbath?

Where does the "SDA literature" say such a thing as you ask about? Having read quite a bit on many sides, I cannot say that I have ever found any such statement in official SDA materials. Therefore, if you know of such a quote, please produce that citation with links to the original source, thank you.

I suppose you need the quote from your church's literature.

I would need the quote, absolutely, for I cannot just take someone's word over an official statement, now can I?

It can be provided on request.

So requested, please produce the statement. Thank you. I will then check all the places it has been produced on this forum, and see the responses as given by others after reading the statement in its original context.

It has been posted quite a few time in this section of the forum by different people.

That's all extra window-washing. All I need is evidence from the one making the claim.

I have in my library 4 out of the 5 book set by EGW, courtesy of SDA people.

Are you referring to the Conflict of the Ages series, [1] Patriarchs and Prophets, [2] Prophets and Kings, [3] The Desire of Ages, [4] Acts of the Apostles, [5] The Great Controversy?

If so, that, from what I understand is a very small portion of the whole, not including the 9 volume set of the Testimonies to the Church, Steps to Christ, Ministry of Healing, Christ's Object Lessons, and so on.

You can have access to all of the EGW material by going to:

Ellen G. White Writings

Ellen G. White Writings in Multiple Languages
Ellen G. White® Estate: Home

etc.

You can even listen to the audio books here - Myers Media

I also have a few other SDA pieces of literature.

I am interested, what do you specifically have by Title, and have you read them (entire), or merely collect them?

I talked with and SDA person for a decade and had to tell them not come back to my house.

As is your prerogative.

I was cussed by them because on their voluntary confession they couldn't prove me wrong.

Anecdotal, and I would have to take you at your word, which presently I am not inclined to do, but even if I gave the benefit of the doubt, I would simply point to others such as Pastor Jeff Dowell, an official representative of the Seventh-day Adventist movement, or to any others. So, even if granted such a person did do such a thing (and I do not at present grant it), that is no evidence to the many others who do not such thing. For instance, among the disciples of Jesus was the 'Judas', and also a Peter, who called down curses, a Thomas who doubted, etc.

I am interested in the theological/practical of what the faith believes, not how any one individual person acts.

You will find I do not cuss, but present scripture, history, documentation, argumentation, etc

Since you claim an interest in the sabbath, I've a few questions for you -

That's fine, but I surely would like some reciprocation upon the points and questions I have already asked also, since this is not a one-way street, nor interrogation, where you get to ask and not answer. That would not be following the way of Jesus Christ.

Who was the sabbath given to

This was already answered in a previous post, however, before re-answering it, I want to look at the assumptions, the apriori, your question contains, namely, [1] it assumes that "the sabbath" was in existence to give, and [2] it assumes "the" (definite article), and [3] it assumes not "a" (indefinite article), and [4] it assumes "the sabbath" is "the" possession of someone in order to be able to "give" it to another.

If we read in scripture the Gospel of Mark chapter 2, we read:

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Mar 2:27 και ελεγεν αυτοις το σαββατον δια τον ανθρωπον εγενετο ουχ ο ανθρωπος δια το σαββατον
Mar 2:28 ωστε κυριος εστιν ο υιος του ανθρωπου και του σαββατου

Therefore, God's word plainly states that:

"the sabbath" (to sabbaton (x2), tou sabbatou (x1)) (definite article)

was "made" (egeneto (x1)) (refers to Creation, Genesis 1-2)

"for" (dia (x1)) (the purpose of being 'made')

"the man" (ton anthrwpon (x1), o anthrwpos (x1), tou anthrwpou (x1)) (definite article, and anthrwpos, is all of humanity, or mankind, the race of man, which is found again at Creation, in Adam)​

This statement by Jesus refers to Creation of Adam in Genesis, wherein all things were "made" by Jesus. Since the passage also gives to us the 'purpose' ("for"), we know that God gave the sabbath to mankind, having been made for mankind, or in other words, all mankind in Adam, the first man. A similar statement is found in Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, wherein it is the "whole" "duty" of "man" to keep God's commandments, and we see again in Isaiah 66:22-23, that even "all flesh", in the New Heavens and New Earth come and worship before God from "one sabbath to another".

In Genesis, we see the very same words used as found in the so-called LXX.

Where does the word "sabbath" first appear in Scripture

Are you asking about the English (KJB) or the Hebrew Masoretic, or even the so-called LXX Greek? I will need you to be specific in this question please.

What is the purpose of the sabbath

The "purpose' is found in the commandment (4th, Exodus 20:8-11) itself, ntoice with me please:

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The word "for" is the 'purpose' or 'reason', as given by God.

Is the sabbath ceremonial in nature

"The sabbath", is not 'ceremonial in nature', but the entirety of the Law of God, the Ten Commandments, is 'spiritual' in 'nature':

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom_7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

It is also 'holy, just and good' in 'nature':

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

It is 'life' in 'nature':

Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

What does keeping the sabbath entail

It would depend upon the contextual setting, ultimately. However, some basics, or foundational definition, is found in Exodus 20:8-11, and in the pure example of Jesus Christ, the living witness.

Do you keep the sabbath given to Israel or an amended version

I keep the sabbath given to "the man".

Your question is assuming "the sabbath" was merely "given to Israel" (by which you seem to only mean Moses and the peoples in Exodus), and I do not agree with this assumption, as per my previous response above.

Is there any passage in the NT requiring the observance of the sabbath

This question assumes that God has to repeat Himself from Exodus 20:8-11, however, God gave us specific instruction in John 14:15, in which Jesus cited Exodus 20:6, the heart of the Ten Commandments. There are other such places as needed.

For instance, can you show me the 3rd Commandment (Exodus 20:7) explicitly restated anywhere in the NT texts (Matthew - Revelation), or 'commanded' explicitly?

From another perspective, if I were to give several paragraphs of information, and state a rule, a Law (Thermodynamics, etc), at the beginning, let's say a science book, or whatever, and then complete the work several years later, by many more paragraphs, and statement many more rules, laws, ect, and never mention the one rule/law (Thermodynamics, etc) again in the entire work, does that negate the rule/law because it is not repeated verbatim?

Exactly who in the NT do we see keeping the sabbath

Can we begin with Jesus? and then look at others?

No generalization, specifics only.

I have been as specific as I am able to be at the moment, until I receive further detail from yourself.

Keeping the sabbath is a personal religious choice.

That is your apriori, and assumption, and I do not agree with you, based upon the evidence as found in scripture.

If you wish to do so I've no objection.

Whether you did nor not, I would still reply.

I do object to requiring it of others to eat from the tree of life (have salvation).

When you use the word 'salvation' what is the definition you are using, please be specific.

What is mankind being 'saved' from specifically?

My sole purpose of this post is honest dialogue.

We shall all soon see.

Are you truly interested?

The OP statement and intent has not changed.

 

[ace of hearts]

Excellent. Did you finish it, and completely watch all of it?

No. The reason is what I stated. I've been talking to SDA people 40 years. I didn't get dumped off the turnip truck this morning, or just yesterday.

Truly, but what does that have to do with the material presented? What if the same material were presented by another, not of the same faith as the person in the video, would that make the difference to your mind?

Yes. You'll most likely not see me present someone else's argument. I don't debate video's.

Simply referring to the person, does not address the subject, neither the material the person is bringing to light. It is generally an Ad Hominem approach to discussion, and ends up distracting from the main OP.

I sorry that you think it's nothing more than a simple referral. You're correct it's ad hominem on Jeff Dowell's part.

Are you going to be discussing the subject or Pastor Jeff Dowell personally?

No

I did not see any 'attacking' another person or persons, by Pastor Jeff Dowell, unless you can point to a specific incident, and define by what you mean 'attacking'.

Say whatever you want to say.

What I saw, was Pastor Jeff Dowell addressing the material (written books, comments, etc) of several persons, including one 'Dale Ratzlaff' (but not merely, nor only). What I saw was contrasting information, from one source to another.

Good for you.

This is how study is to be done, by testing what is stated and written by any to the scripture, history, etc.

Great! If you want to discuss a point, state it. I really don't care where you get your idea from if it's outside of Scripture.

Can you point to a specific example of Pastor Jeff Dowell, in the video series, specifically video 1 that you partially watched at the time of posting, where he was 'trying to destroy others'?

No because I don't watch and discuss videos.

I saw no evidence of that, and therefore, would like you to be specific with time indexes, so that I and others can check your claim, in detail, and rather not in vagueness. This would be appreciated. Thank you.

If you want to base you theology on a video, be my guest.

Even if Pastor Jeff Dowell did do so as you claim, though I saw no evidence of it, and do not grant such a point, that would not validate the extension of your claim, namely, that 'SDA people can't talk about the sabbath without trying to destroy others.' What you did was a logical fallacy, based upon, presently, a personal apriori (as the claim is undocumented), that you included all SDA based upon a single individual. That is not only illogical, but it is also quite unjust to the many other SDA. Why would you lump all together like that? However, first things first, please demonstrate with time indexes the claim. Thank you.

I've been around quite a while. I've seen what happens. Yes SDA people can talk about the sabbath. My personal experience is talking about the sabbath isn't the goal. Conversion is. You will never cause me to depart grace for the law.

I am not Pastor Jeff Dowell, and do not agree with every statement, piece of material presented by Pastor Jeff Dowell, though I think that the vast majority, 99% of it, is valid thought, material, documentation.

I didn't say you were Jeff Dowell. Evidently you don't understand the back slash in technical literature. Since you think Jeff Dowell is valid, present his points one at a time. I'll respond to them even if you credit him as your source.

I have been presenting in this thread my own thoughts, and not merely regurgitating the thought of another, especially this Pastor Jeff Dowell, whom I do not know personally. I just happened to come across the videos on youtube and thought they were good for discussion on the subject of the sabbath. They are a springboard for the topic, not my final thoughts.

I said I'd go through your thread and respond to what I wish to make my point. I thought you said the videos were recommended to you and not just a happen stance chance sort of thing. I'll check. So don't edit your posts.

Therefore, please address my questions, if you do not desire to address the video material specifically, with time indexes. Thank you.

See my above statement.

How can you say, 'Of course ...'?

Why would I think the sabbath wasn't of interest to you? I agreed with you that it is.

I do not gamble, I am a Christian.

You really think I said either you or I was a gambler? Really? If you turn a key you're betting/wagering you get the results you want. You're even betting on what you think is a sure thing. I like those kind of bets. This it the last long post I will respond to in full. The rest of the response to your post will appear in my next post.

 

[ace of hearts]

All of my questions are most earnest, and come from the personal desire to personally know. Thank you.

The OP states my purpose.

Please name the church you attend. Would you also mind telling us exactly how the videos came to be recommended to you? Since youtubve recommended them, you must have searched for something on youtube about the sabbath. They have never recommended a video to me.

Where does the "SDA literature" say such a thing as you ask about? Having read quite a bit on many sides, I cannot say that I have ever found any such statement in official SDA materials. Therefore, if you know of such a quote, please produce that citation with links to the original source, thank you.

I'll fetch it for you from the archives here at CF. It may take a couple days.

I would need the quote, absolutely, for I cannot just take someone's word over an official statement, now can I?

So requested, please produce the statement. Thank you. I will then check all the places it has been produced on this forum, and see the responses as given by others after reading the statement in its original context.

That's all extra window-washing. All I need is evidence from the one making the claim.

Are you referring to the Conflict of the Ages series, [1] Patriarchs and Prophets, [2] Prophets and Kings, [3] The Desire of Ages, [4] Acts of the Apostles, [5] The Great Controversy?

So you know about them? How is this? At the moment I'm not sure where the quote comes from. I'm sure you could find on the SDA official website. I do know some formers quoted it.

If so, that, from what I understand is a very small portion of the whole, not including the 9 volume set of the Testimonies to the Church, Steps to Christ, Ministry of Healing, Christ's Object Lessons, and so on.

I told you I have other literature from them. Surely you must be SDA to know so much. I think I also said I've talked with SDA for more than 40 years. Let me say I've also done some of their studies. I probably still have their award bible.

You can have access to all of the EGW material by going to:

Ellen G. White Writings

Ellen G. White Writings in Multiple Languages
Ellen G. White® Estate: Home

etc.

You can even listen to the audio books here - Myers Media

I know that, thanks. Now please be honest and change your faith indicator to SDA. You're giving way to much to say you're merely interested.

I am interested, what do you specifically have by Title, and have you read them (entire), or merely collect them?

Do you need a picture? No I don't study them. They're strictly reference material.

As is your prerogative.

Anecdotal, and I would have to take you at your word, which presently I am not inclined to do, but even if I gave the benefit of the doubt, I would simply point to others such as Pastor Jeff Dowell, an official representative of the Seventh-day Adventist movement, or to any others. So, even if granted such a person did do such a thing (and I do not at present grant it), that is no evidence to the many others who do not such thing. For instance, among the disciples of Jesus was the 'Judas', and also a Peter, who called down curses, a Thomas who doubted, etc.

I am interested in the theological/practical of what the faith believes, not how any one individual person acts.

Then you've read and studied what they say and print.

You will find I do not cuss, but present scripture, history, documentation, argumentation, etc

Where did I say different?

That's fine, but I surely would like some reciprocation upon the points and questions I have already asked also, since this is not a one-way street, nor interrogation, where you get to ask and not answer. That would not be following the way of Jesus Christ.

This was already answered in a previous post, however, before re-answering it, I want to look at the assumptions, the apriori, your question contains, namely, [1] it assumes that "the sabbath" was in existence to give, and [2] it assumes "the" (definite article), and [3] it assumes not "a" (indefinite article), and [4] it assumes "the sabbath" is "the" possession of someone in order to be able to "give" it to another.

My apriori as you put it justified from personal study. So I'd have to say the same for you. And you want to talk about ad hominem. Really? The truth of your statement is your projection on me. I object.

The word "the" does appear with the word sabbath in the OT. The first is Ex 16:29 haš·šab·bāṯ הַשַּׁבָּת֒
I think they spell it HaShabbat. I'm sure there are many more. The word "the" is an exclusionary word meaning only one. The word "a" doesn't do this.

If we read in scripture the Gospel of Mark chapter 2, we read:

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Mar 2:27 και ελεγεν αυτοις το σαββατον δια τον ανθρωπον εγενετο ουχ ο ανθρωπος δια το σαββατον
Mar 2:28 ωστε κυριος εστιν ο υιος του ανθρωπου και του σαββατου

Would you mind telling me who is speaking the truth. Is it Moses or Jesus?

Here Moses says it is for Israel -

Ex 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.

And repeats here -

17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Now I ask you what is the context of you MK 2:27-28 quote?

The evidence is you're not merely just interested in the sabbath. Here you're spouting what has been taught to you by your church.

Therefore, God's word plainly states that:

"the sabbath" (to sabbaton (x2), tou sabbatou (x1)) (definite article)

was "made" (egeneto (x1)) (refers to Creation, Genesis 1-2)

"for" (dia (x1)) (the purpose of being 'made')

"the man" (ton anthrwpon (x1), o anthrwpos (x1), tou anthrwpou (x1)) (definite article, and anthrwpos, is all of humanity, or mankind, the race of man, which is found again at Creation, in Adam)​

The word made here only refers to the sabbath. It in no way refers to creation in Genesis 1 and 2.

The man ton anthrōpon isn't a refererence to all mankind by context and has to agree with what Moses said. If not pick your liar.

This statement by Jesus refers to Creation of Adam in Genesis, wherein all things were "made" by Jesus. Since the passage also gives to us the 'purpose' ("for"), we know that God gave the sabbath to mankind, having been made for mankind, or in other words, all mankind in Adam, the first man. A similar statement is found in Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, wherein it is the "whole" "duty" of "man" to keep God's commandments, and we see again in Isaiah 66:22-23, that even "all flesh", in the New Heavens and New Earth come and worship before God from "one sabbath to another".

Not in context for Ecc 12. Solomon would be talking to Israel opposed to the world. So unless you can show Solomon is speaking to the world, you're incorrect.

As for Isa 66:22-23, it plainly says "from...to." It says nothing about "on." You should read what the activity of verse 24 is.

In Genesis, we see the very same words used as found in the so-called LXX.

Are you asking about the English (KJB) or the Hebrew Masoretic, or even the so-called LXX Greek? I will need you to be specific in this question please.

I use a Masoretic based interlinear. I will never use the LXX for cause. No this isn't open for discussion.

The "purpose' is found in the commandment (4th, Exodus 20:8-11) itself, ntoice with me please:

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Since you're not in compliance I don't see what it matters.

The KJV says "wherefore" in your quote.
The KJV says "therefore" in Deut 5:15.

No matter really because even the word "for" means the same thing. It means the reason.

The word "for" is the 'purpose' or 'reason', as given by God.

You even admit that here. What do you know? No slur just for you. Don't take offense.

"The sabbath", is not 'ceremonial in nature', but the entirety of the Law of God, the Ten Commandments, is 'spiritual' in 'nature':

You've no clue what you're talking about here. If you did you wouldn't be promoting the physical keeping of the sabbath for the purpose of physical rest.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom_7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

You don't understand what is being said here either. You need chapter 6-8 to understand. The law is carnal commands and demands on the flesh (carnal mind). This is why the law failed.

It is also 'holy, just and good' in 'nature':

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

So it is. I agree. So then you wonder why I don't keep the the law (4th commandment), don't you? Why is it you ignore verse 6?

It is 'life' in 'nature':

Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

I agree. I like life much better. Rom 6:23. You can have my wages.

It would depend upon the contextual setting, ultimately. However, some basics, or foundational definition, is found in Exodus 20:8-11, and in the pure example of Jesus Christ, the living witness.

I keep the sabbath given to "the man".

Do you really want to discuss this statement?

Your question is assuming "the sabbath" was merely "given to Israel" (by which you seem to only mean Moses and the peoples in Exodus), and I do not agree with this assumption, as per my previous response above.[/quote]If you don't believe Moses on this, why do you believe his testimony about the stone tablets since you can't produce them?

This question assumes that God has to repeat Himself from Exodus 20:8-11, however, God gave us specific instruction in John 14:15, in which Jesus cited Exodus 20:6, the heart of the Ten Commandments. There are other such places as needed.

What does Jesus say in the next chapter verse 15? For me this proves without doubt your foundational support of 14:15. Jesus isn't quoting Ex 20:6 in JN 14:15 and certainly not in 15:10. Jesus is consistent. Besides that I also read 1:17 and LK 16:16. I have more evidence Jesus didn't bring nor teach the law from the Gospels alone.

For instance, can you show me the 3rd Commandment (Exodus 20:7) explicitly restated anywhere in the NT texts (Matthew - Revelation), or 'commanded' explicitly?

You can't show the 4th commandment restated anywhere in the NT. In fact the Apostles wrote a letter to the gentile converts not requiring to keep the law including the famous 10.

From another perspective, if I were to give several paragraphs of information, and state a rule, a Law (Thermodynamics, etc), at the beginning, let's say a science book, or whatever, and then complete the work several years later, by many more paragraphs, and statement many more rules, laws, ect, and never mention the one rule/law (Thermodynamics, etc) again in the entire work, does that negate the rule/law because it is not repeated verbatim?

Not a very good example. The covenant you require has passed and been replaced with an entirely unprecedented new covenant. What you promote has no jurisdiction over the Christian, therefore we can't sin against it.

Can we begin with Jesus? and then look at others?

Now there's an idea. You will most likely quote the verse walk as He walked. I see that as a call to Judaism. I'm sure you don't walk like Jesus did.

I have been as specific as I am able to be at the moment, until I receive further detail from yourself.

I understand. Thanks for what you've said so far.

That is your apriori, and assumption, and I do not agree with you, based upon the evidence as found in scripture.

I understand this as well. You believe in an amended covenant while I believe in an entirely new unprecedented covenant as promised by Jeremiah and testified to by Jesus as being in full effect.

Whether you did nor not, I would still reply.

?

When you use the word 'salvation' what is the definition you are using, please be specific.

How many kinds of salvation do you know about? I only know of one.

What is mankind being 'saved' from specifically?

I ask you what do you think especially since you seem tho think there's more than one kind of salvation.

We shall all soon see.

The OP statement and intent has not changed.

But there's nothing in Genesis about the sabbath.

 

[HeartenedHeart]

You will never cause me to depart grace for the law.

Obviously you do not understand "grace", neither "law" in their function, nor how they are working together.

Grace is a teacher:

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;